V22 Experimental 6 Hotfix Released!

[Skitso]

Gotta admire your dedication on these updates! Entering crunch mode yet?

Edit: havn't seen the aim cursor bug recently.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Skitso

[TacticalDragon]

Yeah PersistentLOS doesn't work like it should on night missions, you are correct. We will be releasing a new build as soon as we can get the "shooting in UFO" bug fixed too.

Out of interest, are people still getting the invisible fire cursor / grenade cursor bug? I can't reproduce that at the moment.

I have that problem of granade cursor too and I see that this happend only in some maps and some tiles. Maybe something with map archive?

[Nanosystem]

I am experiencing the grenade bug (as well as the crouch bug). It seems to show the cursor in the UFO, but not outside the UFO. I have attached screenshots and the save file used in the screenshots.

[ATTACH]3544[/ATTACH]

just in case.sav

just in case.sav

Edited May 2, 2014 by Nanosystem
Cleaning it up a bit.

[Gauddlike]

The grenade icons also show up if you are throwing at a higher map level, they just vanish when you are hovering over ground tiles.

[Chris]

@Nanosystem - thanks. Yes, this seems to be fixed in the dev version so hopefully the next update will fix that too.

[Malthus]

Is there a hope you will be ready to release the fix before the weekend or is this unrealistic?

[Caaygun]

I am getting the Grenade cursor bug still in this latest hotfix as well. Some people seem to be not getting it at all. Maybe it is somewhat system dependent? I'm running XP and windowed mode.

This was the case since 22.5 hotfix:

[e22.6] Grenade throwing displays no % or Tu cost [persists from 22.5]

[Chris]

I'm hoping the fix will be out tonight or tomorrow. We've got it set up so I can release the build as soon as I recompile the .exes (which I can do once the programmer is able to get the fixes in).

[Skitso]

I'm experiencing CTD every time I try to move units up the stairs to second floor. Anyone else having the same problem?

[TacticalDragon]

I think that lot of players, including me would appreciate change or put optional the LOS line calculation, for Exp build 5 and Exp build 6.

I dont really want to play a game with that annoying things like, the incapacity to take cover, make shoots that appear clear and be stooped suddenly, aliens shotting through walls, 0% when crouching and all that stuff...

I know I make a lot of criticism on this game, but really... you make good remake of original Xcom, but you copy the same template of gameplay and has been in decades...

Yes, I know your looking to make the game stable but instead of wasting time with new LOS calculator and PersistentLOS mess, why did you focus on introduce innovative content on the game? Event sequences? Bring more dynamic history timeline? Make more weapon and research paths?

Really... I would love to know that you have lot of ways or paths to face the game, instead of lineal research line. What happen if Aliens destroy a city? What happen if humans have been slaved in that places? What about add some options for the game like "Commander this city is been infested, what would you like to do? Nuke them or Try save survivors?"

Thanks

[Malthus]

Making tough coices is all this game should be about. TacticalDragon´s ideas are pretty good.

But besides this a rollback to 22.5 would have been a good move as this 0% hit chance thing keeps me away from playing. Would have loved to go on with my current game.

[UmberSkies]

I'm experiencing CTD every time I try to move units up the stairs to second floor. Anyone else having the same problem?

Not experiencing crashes, but as posted earlier, I am having problems with the second floor not displaying.

Yes, I know your looking to make the game stable but instead of wasting time with new LOS calculator and PersistentLOS mess, why did you focus on introduce innovative content on the game? Event sequences? Bring more dynamic history timeline? Make more weapon and research paths?

TD, you need to remember that first of all, the game is almost complete. There likely wont be anymore sweepingly large changes to content, as their main goal now is the polishing and release of the game. Secondly, this is the experimental build, Changes will be made, and you may not like them. That does not mean that they are a waste of time though. Personally, I find a proper LOS system to be highly important in games like this, and I am very grateful that Chris is working to make a realistic and effective LOS system.

When a change is made, criticisms are good. But complaining about the same thing again and again in an experimental build meant to test out new things is not constructive. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that we all dont. I would much rather see the new LOS system polished up and working smoothly instead of just tossing the whole thing in the ditch.

[Max_Caine]

TD, looking back through these threads, I can't see a "lot of players" asking for optional modes for LOS. In fact, looking through them you're the only poster who has campaigned consistently on this issue. There are builds which turn out to be so unpleasant as to be unplayable, but hey, that's the way it goes with experimental builds that are labelled as "unstable".

[TacticalDragon]

TD, looking back through these threads, I can't see a "lot of players" asking for optional modes for LOS. In fact, looking through them you're the only poster who has campaigned consistently on this issue. There are builds which turn out to be so unpleasant as to be unplayable, but hey, that's the way it goes with experimental builds that are labelled as "unstable".

Well, sorry for complain, but as a client I can do it whatever I want.

I'm just surprised with the high level of conformity that people have.

You want to make better product? Lets propose and complain what you want... If you don't the product stay as it is, other attempt to capture Xcom magic.

I'm the only one? If I don't remember correctly I'm not the only want to complain, I read tons of post in this forum and steam forums about people with similar appreciations.

You forget that I'm not here only to complain, thats a wrong assumption... I'm here to contribute with my experience in gameplay and mechanism in game industry.

The thing that happend is that I'm just not ashame to talk, and I'm not easy to please.

And whats final audience and critics are waiting for the final release, been hard and critic.

You want to threat the game like a kindergarten because they are "learning"? They already learn! for long time I underline that this game is AWESOME! and Devs make wonderful job even with persistent bugs, the game platform is like a fertile soil.

But I don't want fertile soil, I want a growing and diverse game.

Sorry if it looks like I was rude, but the true is that I don't. My final propose is contribute and help, because Indie Game industry need it.

[UmberSkies]

The thing that happend is that I'm just not ashame to talk, and I'm not easy to please.

And whats final audience and critics are waiting for the final release, been hard and critic.

That's the thing mate, the devs aren't here to please just you. They are working to create a game which the vast majority will enjoy upon release. Maybe if you were creating the game you wouldn't place much emphasis on LOS mechanics, but the devs do want to.

And as you say, the game will face critics when it comes out, but do you think the would be happier with an unrealistic LOS that gives soldiers eyes in the back of their head, or a system with well fleshed out and realistic mechanics? The devs have to create a game that will appeal to a large group of people, not a small few who are happy with suboptimal LOS and soldiers who cant lean around a corner to shoot. And in a game based on tactical decisions, shooting around a corner is a fairly important one. I know I personally would not enjoy having to step into the open with no cover just to take a shot at an enemy.

Edited May 3, 2014 by UmberSkies

[Malthus]

Don´t get me wrong, I love the way the new LOS mechanics are supposed to work. And they are needed to get a more tense feeling.

But what TD said is not at all wrong, though I had to read more than one sentence twice... The mechanics are damn important but also an abundance of content. Who says that the development ends at release. There is always room for addons and dlc.

The money i already spent for this not yet finished game was well spent and every minute I played was worth it. But as it is with everything: why be content with how something is if it can be even better?

[Ashery]

Well, sorry for complain, but as a client I can do it whatever I want.

That's a really, really shitty opinion to have, and for a wide range of reasons. One of the primary reasons being what Max_Caine wrote: It's an experimental build. The whole point of releasing experimental builds is to both push some of the bug hunting onto a voluntary subset of their player base and to test on a wider range of systems than the devs have available internally. If you want a more stable version, play the V21 stable release.

As others have also said, it's way too late to suggest major gameplay changes. Constantly tweaking fundamental mechanics is what a good number of people refer to as "Development hell" and it's pretty much a death sentence for smaller indie devs.

Re:Bugs mentioned earlier:

The crouching bug's already been addressed, but I'll throw in more confirmation that the "grenade" bug is still present, and it's present when any weapon is fired at the terrain outside a UFO. Stated in another way, I'll see the fire cursor only when I target a Xenonaut, an alien, or the ground inside a UFO. This happens with grenades, rockets, and rifles.

[Max_Caine]

TD, I happen to have Xenonauts on Steam. On the Xenonauts forum for Steam here are the top 10 topics on Xenonauts right now:

"Building a second base" (5 posts) , "Chief Scientist - how to get rid of him" (26 posts), "Can't get past graphics on this one" (18 posts), "Is there cheats for this game?" (15 posts), "Reccomended mods" (1 post), "V22 Experimental released" (2 posts), "my guys panic then die" (17 posts), "New to the Game" (5 posts), "Thought this was released soon?" (3 posts), "How quickly did you loose a country to aliens?" (6).

The hot button topics on the Steam forums right now (i.e. the ones people are actually participating in a conversation) are: where to place a base, the hate some players have for the chief scientist, the hate some people have to the graphics and if there are cheats for the game. I've just gone through the 20 most recent topics looking for these Steamies complaining about the LOS and I can't find them. There's exactly one thread about the new LOS, and no replies. So, where are these posts?

[UmberSkies]

Don´t get me wrong, I love the way the new LOS mechanics are supposed to work. And they are needed to get a more tense feeling.

But what TD said is not at all wrong, though I had to read more than one sentence twice... The mechanics are damn important but also an abundance of content. Who says that the development ends at release. There is always room for addons and dlc.

The money i already spent for this not yet finished game was well spent and every minute I played was worth it. But as it is with everything: why be content with how something is if it can be even better?

Its nice to see that someone else also enjoys the new LOS ideas =D

You are definitely right about development not having to end at release, it would be nice to see some added content after the game has been released, as there definitely are more things I would love to see added into the game. (MAH FLAMMENWERFER!! All them little aliens gonna BURN! )

Side Note: Any news on that upcoming fix Chris? Really want to start up a new campaign again

Edited May 3, 2014 by UmberSkies

[TacticalDragon]

That's the thing mate, the devs aren't here to please just you. They are working to create a game which the vast majority will enjoy upon release. Maybe if you were creating the game you wouldn't place much emphasis on LOS mechanics, but the devs do want to.

And as you say, the game will face critics when it comes out, but do you think the would be happier with an unrealistic LOS that gives soldiers eyes in the back of their head, or a system with well fleshed out and realistic mechanics? The devs have to create a game that will appeal to a large group of people, not a small few who are happy with suboptimal LOS and soldiers who cant lean around a corner to shoot. And in a game based on tactical decisions, shooting around a corner is a fairly important one. I know I personally would not enjoy having to step into the open with no cover just to take a shot at an enemy.

Yes, I know you talk about lot of things here.

First pleasing me is the least that they need to worry about, I'm a total defender of Xenonauts. But I think that at first time early in developing they receive too much criticism, the game was young and the obstacles make the path for goldhawk hard, really hard... They take the decision to take "Safe Steps". This forum has become like a dark room were a young men, that is afraid is only hearing voices that whisper "The game is great", "Great addition", "Its wonderfull", "Great Job".... Did you read the steam forum? They don't even answer some of the post and steam is the reflection of true "average gamers"

Yes... all here in this forum was "Hard-Veteran-Tactical-Nostalgic" players, thats the reasons for that we'r here, but that "Average Player" is out there, playing some awesome games in this category (Even Indie Games).

About LOS I agree completely, they are doing a important thing testing, but the last changes lack of comfort for normal player... Yes is dark, Yes is awesome, but the game is hard enough to put more obstacles, specially on perception of the gamer.

Well thanks for your answer gentleman

[dpelectric]

As others have also said, it's way too late to suggest major gameplay changes. Constantly tweaking fundamental mechanics is what a good number of people refer to as "Development hell" and it's pretty much a death sentence for smaller indie devs

Exactly. That's what I'm afraid is happening. I know I make my own little suggestions, but I try to make it clear that I'm just tossing ideas around to have fun discussing them, not expecting them to be seriously considered at this point.

I think GH should be focused exclusively on fixing bugs and the psionics. The game is otherwise playable, and releasable. DLCs and mods can continue from that point. I don't want to see them becoming trapped in a cycle of experimental builds that continually generate new bugs which in turn require new hotfixes and balancing. You've got to have a cutoff point, and I think v21 stable, with the bugs and psionics fixed, was/is that point

[Malthus]

Chief scientist as i wrote in the steam forum: I love him, he is the stereotype of a genius without knowledge of interpersonal relations. The only thing they could have done to make him more awesome would have been to make him look like David Hewlett

Back to this more content debate. There are lots of damn good mods out there that to some extent will be incorporated in the final game. So maybe it is not too late to see some pretty good additional stuff in the final version (nothing that changes the game to the core but things that are in line with it). Always hoped for atleast another tileset for maps in forest terrain.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Malthus

[Alexandre Lange]

Any chance that we get the update tonight or early tomorrow? I would like to play some at weekend...

[Caaygun]

I want a Chief Engineer character to snipe at the scientist about how the arrogant dudes are being overpaid. The engineer comrades are the ones that do the real production, yet they're paid only 5000, whereas the smartass scientists get 10000. How fair is that now?

[legit1337]

I agree with whoever said that sometimes the devs and "goldhawk defense force" cannot take criticism. As an amateur programmer myself (going for bachelor's degree now) I do realize the trials involved with making a game like this, on a budget as small as theirs. Being a game/software developer and being lazy are in my mind two totally exclusive things.

However there are still very real, and very serious flaws with this game that need to be addressed before release and I think that a may 30th release date is horribly optimistic. Some promised systems like alien morale aren't even implemented yet, and psionics has been totally broken for at least 3 weeks. For a full list, see my thread in the balance section titled "Major issues that need fixing before release".

Despite their inability to accept criticism sometimes, I think the goldhawk devs, especially Chris are doing a pretty damn good job. They are responsive to their community, polite, and actually listen to their players. I think once xenonauts releases it will do well, and I'm glad I gave my money to goldhawk to fund this game. I would not be here if I thought otherwise.

Edited May 3, 2014 by legit1337