Proposed Psionic Fixes

[Bromley86]

With Xcom3 you could neutralise the threat (i.e. androids carrying the heavy weapons). With Xcom:EU you can (apparently, I can't bring myself to play it) neutralise the threat with Psionic class troopers.

With Xcom1 you could, after a while, see the defense strength and so effectively neutralise the threat by sacking anyone with a low strength. Plus I found the soldiers to be more like cannon fodder than those in Xeno (probably something to do with 14 vs. 8 in the starting dropship).

Anyway, the point of all that is that I didn't mind psionics in the other games, but I do in this one. Range mitigation helps a lot, but I think Caaygun & Gauddlike have the right idea with a single attack having multiple effects depending on how badly the target fails the roll. Ideally I'd like to see 2 attack types: a global one, like the current Dread, that has a chance of affecting everyone in the team and a targeted one that has that variable effect. The global one could be set off without LOS, the targeted one ideally only on soldiers that had been spotted (by any alien unit, whether now alive or dead) in the preceding turn. Of course, that might not be possible.

[Amaror]

On the other hand it is like an alien pointing a gun at you then having to roll a random number to see if you get hit or not which is exactly what happens every time a shot is fired.

If range, mitigation, and line of sight are used alongside resists then you have very similar options available to counter psi that you do to counter weapon attacks.

Additionally to what ccrunner said a big part of psionics desperation is that only the aliens can use them in this game. I can shoot back, i can't mindcontrol back.

Edit:

I remember in the OG the medpack was able to wake up stunned soldiers. Does that work in xenonauts, too? It would make stunning mc'ed soldiers more valiable, therefore adding a way for the player to counter psionics, which is whats missing in the moment.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Amaror

[Gauddlike]

except with weapon attacks I can use cover, smoke, and suppressive fire to counter

And if psionics used line of sight, restricted range, and morale based resists you would be able to do much the same.

If enemies need line of sight to use a psionic attack then end your turn behind large objects to block line of sight.

If they are close enough to see you then you can likely suppress them, if psi abilities are expensive to use this would prevent them being used at all.

If the enemy needs to close to range in order to use psionics then you may be able to reaction fire on them when they try.

If you are getting hit by strong psi abilities then you know the enemy must be close so you can choose to charge forward to try and take down the psi enemy quickly or fall back and use a less vulnerable soldier or a vehicle to find them.

Morale based resists mean that you can influence your troops resistance to psi by positioning them close to a ranking soldier for a bonus, you can kill enemies to boost morale.

Maybe cover could affect psi powers as well if you want, solid objects between the psion and target could cloud their mental focus.

Smoke shouldn't have an effect but to be honest I think there are plenty of tactical options you are ignoring there.

[Larus]

Yeah, IF. Let's hope some of these suggestions make it into the game

[Gauddlike]

I quite like the idea of incorporating range into the powers, and I actually think Gauddlike's suggestion of the "success" calculation simply being a roll up to the alien's psionic strength stat vs. a roll up to the target soldier's current morale.

You can also give every power a range, and then give the defending soldier +1 to their defence roll for each tile beyond that.

I am hopeful on the range and resist parts from this post.

Line of sight is a bit trickier but I think using squad sight would do the trick.

Best ways to avoid being in squad sight of an enemy is to either hide or make sure you kill enemies who can see you.

I think these changes could well give the player options to avoid, or reduce the effect of, psi powers.

I have posted other suggestions on how range can affect psi powers as well that I think would help change them into something that builds a feeling of dread as the player moves around the map rather than just getting killed by mind bullets at 200 yards like some kind of yak.

The first could be fun, the second not so much.

[jonny211]

The thing that makes Mind Control so much more powerful than in the original is that the MCed soldier gets to act immediately.

I second this, MC is a real pain when three of my 12 open fire on the others even though they've moved and fired during their turn and have no action points left. I could tolerate it a bit more if the MC'd soldier used any remaining action points during the aliens turn, I'd imagine they've succumbed to the whispers in their mind telling them the captain ate their last biscuit and must die NOW. Stowing weapons every other turn to avoid any friendly fire seems gamey

Also dread makes the final mission even harder, elite troops are reduced to a crawl and cannot deal with the aliens.

Edited May 13, 2014 by jonny211

[llunak]

It looks like it's not surprise anymore.

[kaltorak18]

So in researching the teleporting guys, the scientist says that their telepathy was detectable as a type of radiation, akin to radio waves. If this is the case, why can't the super brain make a helmet/suit that has a mesh under it that acts like a faraday cage blocking their type of emission? You could still have a receiver on the outside of the helmet/suit that would allow radio communications, but block or at least majorly reduce the chance of mind control/unnerving.

If the guy can design about a half dozen highly advanced airships and not have them destroy themselves spectacularly in under a YEAR, I think he's probably capable of doing that. Not to mention all the other extremely sped up discoveries he makes. The science for this one is already there.

EDIT: I went back to look up which alien it was and can't find the text I'm remembering. Either I'm imagining things or it's somewhere else. Hmm..

In any case, some form of protection would be nice. It doesn't have to negate, just reduce.

Edited May 23, 2014 by kaltorak18

[Gazz]

Can we have a hotkey or button that puts everyone's weapon in the backpack and automatically takes them back out at the beginning of the next turn? (space and TU permitting)

Psionics wouldn't be so bad if the only defense wouldn't be so such an enormous number of boring and repetitive clicking.

[Gauddlike]

I take it you don't feel the changes have worked to make psi powers more balanced then?

[dpelectric]

Can we have a hotkey or button that puts everyone's weapon in the backpack and automatically takes them back out at the beginning of the next turn?

Lol I love it. That's hilarious

[Gazz]

I take it you don't feel the changes have worked to make psi powers more balanced then?

What I suggested is merely a UI improvement because you can already do that manually. It's just a terrible chore to do so.

The UI for the throwing of grenades has also been greatly improved over the original game so there's a real chance...

This even has a tangible cost attached to it. Costs about 8 TU and prevents the use of reaction fire.

And yes, I'm serious.

Barring that, an Autohotkey script could do something very similar but it wouldn't be as reliable or elegant.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Gazz

[Gauddlike]

Psionics wouldn't be so bad if the only defense wouldn't be so such an enormous number of boring and repetitive clicking.

Your post does seem to suggest that you don't feel the current balance of the psionics is adequate.

The suggestion is a UI improvement that only has a single use as far as I can tell and that is to compensate for poor psionic balance.

That was the reason your post prompted the question.

[Gazz]

Psionics are balanced as far as the boss is concerned so there is no point in arguing.

The current UI mechanics are part of that accepted balance so I'm only asking for the same thing with greatly reduced clicking.

It wouldn't require more than a hotkey and code. No special UI, no special function to reserve the TU... it's intended to be inefficient.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Gazz

[Gauddlike]

I haven't played enough since the changes to get a good handle on the psi powers so I am curious to know what others think of them.

[Jean-Luc]

Maybe ironman mode could prevent the player from manually dropping or storing away their weapon during combat.

[llunak]

Gazz: You don't understand. If you think that the only way the psionics are balanced is if you stash away all weapons at the end of every turn, then you think the psionics are not balanced. I can't imagine you getting such a shortcut, because it simply doesn't fit, you're asking for a workaround that'd be against the spirit of the game. The player is supposed to put up with the psionics the way they are and be able to handle them without such a horrible tedious mechanic.

[Gazz]

I understand very well. I just don't think that my opinion matters so I'm suggesting something that does not affect the current balance at all.

Everyone wins.

It already works like that and it is balanced by the TU cost and and you forgoing reaction fire.

No other game mechanic is available to counter psionics in any tactical way so this is it.

It really is just a UI improvement.

[Gauddlike]

I think it would be more of an admission that something was severely broken if you had to add a button to automate a common exploit to avoid it.

I am guessing from your comments that you don't think range based psi powers with morale based resists are working?

[Gazz]

Morale checks are just a dice roll and not affected by your tactics in any way.

I also don't think it's realistic to try to keep everyone far away from any alien. After all, the aliens may eventually come after you.

The only useful tactical countermeasure that this leaves is unequipping everyone's weapons.

It is unfortunate that this is implemented in such a click-intensive way but it is logical enough to not call it an exploit.

[domein]

Psi powers are too random, you can't defend reliably at the moment. As someone already noted, it's as fun as your soldiers randomly exploding during missions.

The only way to make it work is making mc predictable, so it would take time for aliens to get control of your soldier, he should be locked down at least for one turn in the mental struggle, and maybe two-three turns if he is very brave.

Edited May 25, 2014 by domein

[Max_Caine]

Gazz, morale is a resource that can be positively or negatively affected by tactics. As a simple example, keeping soliders near the highest ranking solider boosts morale. Loosing a higher ranking solider reduces morale greater than loosing a lower ranking solider, and effects all soliders nearby. So when managing morale, you have to think how to keep your morale boosting soliders alive while at the same time keeping them close to the front of the battle so other soliders can benefit from them. Golly gosh, what's that then? Tactics? Whether or not morale should be the primary stat for resisting a psychic power may be up for debate, but please stop making sweeping statements with no foundation.

[KevinHann]

Psi powers are too random, you can't defend reliably at the moment. As someone already noted, it's as fun as your soldiers randomly exploding during missions.

Now that would be awesome alien ability! Wonder if it is possible to mod it in

[kabill]

Psi powers are too random, you can't defend reliably at the moment. As someone already noted, it's as fun as your soldiers randomly exploding during missions.

The only way to make it work is making mc predictable, so it would take time for aliens to get control of your soldier, he should be locked down at least for one turn in the mental struggle, and maybe two-three turns if he is very brave.

I'm not sure there's any way that could work in the game as is, since there's not really any precedent for things happening over multiple turns like that.

On the other hand, in principle you could do something using the Fear power. If fear had a strong chance of success against a high-morale target, but other powers much less, aliens would have to weaken your troops first using Fear before they could effectively use their other abilities. So you'd have something of a grace period before the powerful abilities become problematic, allowing you to rush down the aliens quickly or retreat morale-depleted soldiers back to add range penalty while un-Feared troops press forwards.

[KevinHann]

I'm not sure there's any way that could work in the game as is, since there's not really any precedent for things happening over multiple turns like that.

On the other hand, in principle you could do something using the Fear power. If fear had a strong chance of success against a high-morale target, but other powers much less, aliens would have to weaken your troops first using Fear before they could effectively use their other abilities. So you'd have something of a grace period before the powerful abilities become problematic, allowing you to rush down the aliens quickly or retreat morale-depleted soldiers back to add range penalty while un-Feared troops press forwards.

There might be a decent idea in here. Say Fear stacks and is permanent (or effect lasts over a big enough number of turns). Say it decreases morale by 10 or so each time. Once a specific soldier has been affected say three times he becomes highly vulnerable to mind control. So you will basicly have an indicator of how vulnerable your soldiers are individually and then it's your call if you want them to progress with the group for more cover/firepower, or leave them behind to minimize the risk of friendly fire at the expense of an extra body. If done properly and in a balanced way, it could add great tension as the mission builds up towards conclusion. (or what kabill said)

Would something like that be moddable?