Ground Combat Balance - V21 Experimental 6

[Chris]

Quite a few changes to the formula in V21 Experimental 6. The big ones are the new LOS mode and the ability to shoot around corners much better than before. Please post your thoughts here, but note that we are aware of the issues with alien psionics!

CHANGELOG:

• Shoot path calculation has been changed so that it uses the "best" part of the target tile to aim at, rather than the central section. Previously there were circumstances where you were unable to shoot at a target even if you could see part / most of it, but many of these are now fixed.
  
• PersistentLOS mode has been activated for further user feedback. This makes LOS update in real time; as soon as you turn a soldier (or they die etc) you immediately lose vision on the area you are no longer looking at. This applies to both humans and aliens.
  
• Various AI updates, including a fix to them being able to see through walls. However they're still acting weird in a few situations and we'll look into that in more detail for the next build.
  
• Alien Leaders / Officers have been moved one UFO earlier in the progression to make the research tree less compressed in the late game (this means Caesan psions now appear in Light Scouts).
  
• Bleeding now does 5HP damage per turn, per wound (remember soldiers can use medikits on themselves now)
  
• Damage numbers are now shown by default on Veteran difficulty too
  
• Assault Shield is now the same size as the Combat Shield
  
• Alien Plasma Rifle has gained 10 damage but lost 10 mitigation (a relative Jackal buff)
  

[VaeliusNoctu]

Terror

I have made a Picture so you can see what i mean. I like your Game but your Terror Missions was like this:

2 Turn, 4 Aliens killed and 8 Remain in my sight range (it was more summary) that with a 8 Man Team on Veteran. Its the First Terror Mission and i have never seen a higher UFO then Medium with 2 Fighters.

Later, after the Invasion Expands, you have much more Aliens to fight and the most of them 90% wear AOE Weapons. +The Aliens was so though that you can have 5 Hits with a Rifle and they still live, only 2-3 Plasma Shotgun shots (direct contact) or a good Heavy Weapon Hit kills them faster (only Caesians or the small Drones was weaker).

I allways have Fun with this Game but Stop Playing the Game after the first few Terror Missions.

I dont know what the Problem is. I think a to small Map and the AI Protokoll. Sure the AI should work as a Team but i think you overcompensate this Team Protokoll.

+I Dislike this Crithit 50-150% the Aliens was hard enough but if you do a 50% damage Hit in the wrong Situation that can wipe your Team.

I know I've said many times, but please change the terror missions. The Map should be larger and the AI on the map distributed individually or in small teams work. In no case, however, the whole group should be after you.

At the end there are usually only one or two aliens who were probably hanging by pathfinding errors somewhere that you have to look. The rest you have normal immediately on the neck.

p.s.: understud i this right?: The Alien Plasma Cannon is a powerful destructive weapon. As observed from gameplay, it is capable of one-shotting a poorly armored soldier.

It is recommended that one of your really powerful guys pick up this weapon from a dead alien when facing even more powerful aliens as it can kill them in one or two shots.

I can Pickup and use this Alien Weapon?!?

Edited April 29, 2014 by VaeliusNoctu

[kabill]

[*]Various AI updates, including a fix to them being able to see through walls. However they're still acting weird in a few situations and we'll look into that in more detail for the next build.

Any kind of weirdness in particular? Just wondering if there's anything we should be looking out for in case it is helpful.

(The only other issue I've noticed with the AI is units occasionally locking up and not doing anything? Is that it, or are there other things?)

[frank_walls]

Terror - I have made a Picture so you can see what i mean. I like your Game but your Terror Missions was like this:

Try this for the map you're on in the picture. 2 snipers, 1 rocket, 1 MG/Heavy Plasma/etc, 2 shotguns/carbine, and 2 rifles. Make sure everyone also has plenty of grenades. Camp you snipers, rocket, and heavy MG at the end of the street by the edge of the map - close to where you come out of the dropship. Keep a shotgun/carbine to guard the opening in the hedges on the bottom left, then send the rest of your team into the house on the top right. Use your riflemen to shoot through the windows and spot guys along the street. Keep the shotgun/carbine guy close to protect them. You can then use the guys in the house as spotters, and pick everyone off with your snipers, rockets, and heavy weapon. The street where your guys are crouched becomes a big kill-box. Once you waste most of the guys you can begin moving your guys up slowly.

[Burzmali]

Both observed during Operation Endgame:

Aliens can see and shoot through the starting door, and the wall next to the door up to two squares deep.

Has anything changed with the crouching bonus? I'm getting sub 25% hit chances with 100 accuracy snipers against crouching targets in range but out of cover (I get 95% for the first shot, they suppress, and I get around 20% for the second).

[Max_Caine]

Wow. I gotta say that doing a corvette mission as my first mission was a bit of an eye-opener, especially as I was facing Androns. All I can say is thank god the AI only uses snap and burst fire because I was looking at a TPK more than once and it was only because Androns use the crappiest shots that I didn't loose at lot of my guys.

[Skitso]

Should the "unit is unnerved" psionic attack do something?

[silencer]

Reduce morale when I read it last time. But as I posted in the bugs the unnerved is calling shenanigans plenty of time as I get soldier X got unnerved and on the start of my turn soldier Y berserks.

[VaeliusNoctu]

Try this for the map you're on in the picture. 2 snipers, 1 rocket, 1 MG/Heavy Plasma/etc, 2 shotguns/carbine, and 2 rifles. Make sure everyone also has plenty of grenades. Camp you snipers, rocket, and heavy MG at the end of the street by the edge of the map - close to where you come out of the dropship. Keep a shotgun/carbine to guard the opening in the hedges on the bottom left, then send the rest of your team into the house on the top right. Use your riflemen to shoot through the windows and spot guys along the street. Keep the shotgun/carbine guy close to protect them. You can then use the guys in the house as spotters, and pick everyone off with your snipers, rockets, and heavy weapon. The street where your guys are crouched becomes a big kill-box. Once you waste most of the guys you can begin moving your guys up slowly.

Thanks i like this Setting i thought too about Change my Team and reduce the Rifle Mans (the Rifle is a so weak weapon).

But You are sure with this Rocket Man? Is this not a Problem with civilians i can hurt?

But whatever i restart the Mission and Test your Setting. Thanks!

But what i mean is, i like this runoff not. I like more Tactical battles.

Your Team Setting sounds very nice, do you use the same Setting in Alien Bases?

mfg

VN

[Skitso]

VN, please keep all non related gameplay discussions out of these balance threads. Thanks.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Skitso

[Max_Caine]

Request: I think the Psion is actually going to be quite important in helping to improve the bravery stat, as you need troops to wig out to improve bravery and the only other way to do that effectively is to shoot them. Could the Psion be kept for the light scout, but the guard be left out until the Scout? That way a sense of progression is maintained.

[kabill]

EDIT: Blegh, can't read.

Edited May 3, 2014 by kabill

[VaeliusNoctu]

VN, please keep all non related gameplay discussions out of these balance threads. Thanks.

Moderator, Moderator oh, I see you're none. Only one busybodies. ^ ^

Anyway, our discussion was all about Ground Combat and was not websites filling Spam about Personal tactics. Then I could maybe understand the objection.

[ventuswings]

Sorry to keep beating the dead horse, but is there plan for change in grenade accuracy & deviation? I checked on the work tracker and haven't seen it mentioned so wanted to bring it up.

[Chris]

Ventuswings - it's not the most urgent or important thing on our radar, but potentially we'll look at it prior to release.

[StellarRat]

IMO, all the vehicle non-MG turrets need more ammo. The amounts are too low to make them useful for an entire ground combat and that makes less desirable than two soldiers armed with heavy weapons, specially experienced soldiers. I'd say a 50% bump in ammo would be fine. If you consider the expense and that they are not recoverable the balance is still off IMO. As far as survivability and speed I think I'm fine with how they are now. They're also the only defense one can count on against psionics and Reapers, so they should a good choice for a smart player that is anticipating those two enemies, but with low ammo they aren't. Smart options are always a good thing for game play.

Also, the Hunter MG could use a slight increase in accuracy. It isn't even close to the LMG right now, and by rights, it should actually be much superior for a bunch of reasons.

Edited May 2, 2014 by StellarRat

[kabill]

I'd say a 50% bump in ammo would be fine. If you consider the expense and that they are not recoverable the balance is still off IMO.

Previous experience has taught me that I can manage with the 10 shots that a vehicle gets, but I need to ration my shots to make sure its enough.

With this in mind, I think a 50% boost would be pretty much perfect. You still wouldn't be able to be frivilous, but that's a good thing I think.

[StellarRat]

Previous experience has taught me that I can manage with the 10 shots that a vehicle gets, but I need to ration my shots to make sure its enough.

Pretty much my experience too. The problem is that I have to ration them so much that I'd be better just taking two guys with nearly unlimited ammo comparatively. At 200 grand a pop plus time and materials vehicles are not much of a deal considering you can hire five troops for the same amount that will get better with time and new equipment.

[legit1337]

Any ETA on the crouch bug fix? Game is unplayable until then.

[Skitso]

Chris said that he hopes the fix would be out today..

Edited May 3, 2014 by Skitso

[Chris]

I'm hoping so, but I don't really know. Our ground combat programmer lives in eastern Ukraine, so there's a number of things that might be distracting him.

[dpelectric]

I'm hoping so, but I don't really know. Our ground combat programmer lives in eastern Ukraine, so there's a number of things that might be distracting him.

Hope it's just distractions. That situation is deteriorating

[Skitso]

Ukraine, huh?! Chris, a bit off topic, but it would be intresting to know a bit more about your small team. I know you, Aaron, Giovanni and GJ by name but not much else it seems. Who's the core team, who lives where, who are at the offices with you etc.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Skitso

[Gauddlike]

Request: I think the Psion is actually going to be quite important in helping to improve the bravery stat, as you need troops to wig out to improve bravery and the only other way to do that effectively is to shoot them. Could the Psion be kept for the light scout, but the guard be left out until the Scout? That way a sense of progression is maintained.

I am hoping that resisting psi powers will also help train bravery if morale is used so any kind of psi attack could do the trick.

[legit1337]

There was a 8.9 mb update about 4 hours ago. No new release threads or patchnotes. Is the crouch bug gone?