Who else thinks medals should do more?

[Chaos Marine]

I like the idea of minor, like +1 stats for each stack of medals you get.

[Jimmiusmaximus]

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Edited March 3, 2021 by Jimmiusmaximus

[legit1337]

I'd prefer them to stay as they are. They're not supposed to be magical jewelry. Bravery makes sense as medals represent a point of pride for a soldier, everything else would be just gamey and fantasy-ish.

But that argument doesn't really hold water in this instance. Trust me, I have used it plenty on these forums.

Having a medal doesn't magically make their aim better. The ordeals they had to go through to get that medal does. The medal is just a representative milestone for their "achievement". For example, private Billy kills 5 aliens on his first mission, granting him the military cross medal: The heat of combat and the rigours he went through in that battle permanently raise his accuracy and reflexes by 5 each, his combat abilities permanently sharpened by his baptism by fire.

One COULD say that the soldiers already get stat boosts from completing missions, and that it already represents growing ability in those fields. (The point Muskrat brought up earlier) It is a valid argument. However, I believe +3 here and +5 there isn't enough to be gamebreaking. Simply noticeable, which is good. Again, I bring back my point: Shouldn't highly decorated soldiers be performing noticeably better than non-decorated ones?

+1 bravery is piddly... you could probably take it out and nobody would notice.

Edited April 27, 2014 by legit1337

[Gauddlike]

I would like to see a little more benefit from the medals but I would also restrict it mainly to bravery increases if bravery can affect psi powers.

If bravery continues to have little use then medals might as well do something else or they are effectively useless.

If your soldiers are losing six or seven points of morale when a friendly soldier dies who cares if they have an extra point in bravery from a medal, it really doesn't do much.

When your soldier gets a medal it should be something you are grateful for and something to add to the story of your soldiers.

As it is I rarely notice when someone gets a medal.

It doesn't matter which it is as they have the same effect.

That effect doesn't matter as it is always a single point in bravery which is basically an invisible stat that has very limited player interaction.

Combined this means I don't bother looking at the medal bar which is a waste of a feature for me.

[Amaror]

One COULD say that the soldiers already get stat boosts from completing missions, and that it already represents growing ability in those fields. (The point Muskrat brought up earlier) It is a valid argument. However, I believe +3 here and +5 there isn't enough to be gamebreaking. Simply noticeable, which is good. Again, I bring back my point: Shouldn't highly decorated soldiers be performing noticeably better than non-decorated ones?

It's not about it being gamebreaking, it's about it being immersion breaking and unrealistic.

But i can see that i won't convince you of that.

Just for the record i would hate it if medals get other stats then bravery. It's just too gamey.

I am on board that they should give MORE bravery, just because the current natural bravery gain is just pathetic, when you don't play gamey.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Amaror

[legit1337]

It's not about it being gamebreaking, it's about it being immersion breaking and unrealistic.

But i can see that i won't convince you of that.

Just for the record i would hate it if medals get other stats then bravery. It's just too gamey.

I am on board that they should give MORE bravery, just because the current natural bravery gain is just pathetic, when you don't play gamey.

Fair enough.

Though, I still do not see how medals giving stats other than bravery is "gamey". To re-iterate, it is not the medal itself that makes the soldier's stats go up. It is what he had to go through to get it.

When your soldier gets a medal it should be something you are grateful for and something to add to the story of your soldiers.

As it is I rarely notice when someone gets a medal.

It doesn't matter which it is as they have the same effect.

That effect doesn't matter as it is always a single point in bravery which is basically an invisible stat that has very limited player interaction.

Combined this means I don't bother looking at the medal bar which is a waste of a feature for me.

This is exactly my entire point from someone else's mouth lol.

Edited April 27, 2014 by legit1337

[crusherven]

Why do you feel you need to collect them all to have optimal soldiers? I'm sorry but +1 to bravery is ultimately meaningless. I want gaining medals to feel like an accomplishment, and it be reflected on the battlefield with NOTICEABLY better stats. Again, nothing gamebreaking, but NOTICEABLE.

...because with your proposal, you WOULD have to collect every medal to have optimal soldiers, by any definition of optimal you care to use. Your proposed stat increases are huge, precisely because you want them to be so NOTICEABLE. Honestly, how do you propose that you want medals to make it so your soldiers are noticeably better with them, then turn around and say that I wouldn't need them to have optimal troops?

[legit1337]

...because with your proposal, you WOULD have to collect every medal to have optimal soldiers, by any definition of optimal you care to use. Your proposed stat increases are huge, precisely because you want them to be so NOTICEABLE. Honestly, how do you propose that you want medals to make it so your soldiers are noticeably better with them, then turn around and say that I wouldn't need them to have optimal troops?

Because the effort needed to farm them would outweigh the benefits, and be ultimately counter-productive.

Go ahead. Shoot up your own rookies to try and get crimson hearts on all of them. Half of them will die in the process. The half that do make it will out of action for a couple waves. All for what? 5 HP? That won't make a bit of difference in 90% of situations.

Or maybe you are talking about a military cross? To have to funnel 5 kills to a rookie on one mission puts your other troops at significant risk. But say you do pull it off. The new guy has a military cross, and in the process two of your vet soldiers get killed because you were dicking around. Was it worth it for +5 accuracy and +5 reflex on one guy?

Or maybe you were talking about the medals you get for just "showing up". Yes, bring tons of rookies to a mission and have them just stand around, not risking them. Reducing available manpower for your mission. Congrats, they now get 10+ bravery, which makes them harder to panic, but not much else. Was it worth it risking your real troops in the meantime?

Everyone keeps saying it is game-y, or that people would farm medals. But nobody has even attempted to refute the points I made above. I just want medals to do more then they do now without breaking the bank so to speak. I hardly see how +5 in a few stats makes a guy a "super soldier".

Edited April 28, 2014 by legit1337

[Skitso]

How about each medal granting a small decrease in shooting %TU in addition to a small boost in bravery?

[Gauddlike]

I could see that being quite difficult to balance but it could be worth a try.

It would almost certainly be worth trying to farm those medals as there is no other way to gain that advantage.

It might be better to just boost total TU.

At least then you are not messing with the shot per turn balance Chris has been trying to achieve either.

[Skitso]

Yeah, you are probably right. I'm just desperately trying to find ways to have veterans shoot more.

[legit1337]

I could see that being quite difficult to balance but it could be worth a try.

It would almost certainly be worth trying to farm those medals as there is no other way to gain that advantage.

It might be better to just boost total TU.

At least then you are not messing with the shot per turn balance Chris has been trying to achieve either.

I don't know... Just SOMETHING more then a measly +1 bravery is all I'm asking for.

[Dead Dread]

Um.. guys you do realise that as you get further the medals do give you more than +1 bravery right? I just did a quick mouse over after my last mission and there were a heap of +2 and even some +3s around. You just need to keep your guys alive longer

[Chaos Marine]

Yeah but bravery doesn't mean jack all.

[Gauddlike]

I think the medals that show +3 are the third medal in a chain so it is actually +1 per medal but it stacks.

[Commissar Pancakes]

Unless they're wearing an entire layer of them for armor, I don't think a small slab of metal is going to be doing much more than add bravery stats to the solder...unless perhaps there's an added effect that boosts the bravery stats of the solders around them just on account of how many missions they've survived...

[Emperor_Zoron]

Unless they're wearing an entire layer of them for armor, I don't think a small slab of metal is going to be doing much more than add bravery stats to the solder...unless perhaps there's an added effect that boosts the bravery stats of the solders around them just on account of how many missions they've survived...

That is an idea. Perhaps soldier's with a lot of medals would give higher 'moral' bonuses to those around them.

[Dirk Ralthar]

I still think the idea of the medals being representative of the soldier's experience and conveying bonuses that would be relevant to that experience beyond the games regular "level up" is a good idea. Giving a few HP from the Crimson Heart to me makes since. The soldier survived a situation that would have killed someone else, and it reflects that the soldier is tougher than average. A soldier that can claim multiple kills in a single mission has shown exceptional accuracy (if he is not using grenades/rocket launcher/explosives), but the game's standard leveling system won't reflect that in his gain at the end of the mission.

While I don't think that the "show up and get a medal" Medals should give anything other than bravery (and it makes since, the medal is proof you can survive against the aliens, and the bonus is representative of a boost in confidence). But I think that some of the medals should give something more than bravery.

I don't know what the point of complaining about it being "Gamey" is. It would just be another game mechanic, and any experienced gamer knows that every game mechanic can be abused by a player who both knows how, and is willing to invest the time and effort. Sure if I see an opportunity to get one of the medals for one of my guys I will go for it, but I don't try to artificially create those situations. And with a +5 bonus to something like Accuracy, it isn't a game changer. They might make what? 1-3% more hits? Even over the very long course of the game, if you are relying on that number of successful hits then there are some fundamental flaws with your strategy. Also, it makes it a little more frustrating when you do lose one of your more experienced soldiers, as you might not just losing an experienced major, but a major with bonuses that might be harder to acquire.

The medals can also reflect better talent in your less experienced soldiers. If that new private that you brought along for his first mission gets the 5 kills he needs for that medal, maybe he was a cut above what his service record would have indicated (sure he gets the boost going from private to corporal) and the medal's stat boost reflects that. I don't see why people are looking at the medals as "magical, miracle, chest candy", and not a reflection of the soldier's individual talents and skills.

The one thing that all highly decorated service members have in common is that they have done something beyond what is normally expected (I'm not talking about minor awards, I'm referring to higher awards: Silver Star, Navy Cross, awards of that nature). Sometimes it was a act of heroism that was based simply on having the courage to do something most other people wouldn't, sometimes it is for surviving a situation where they should have died, or accomplishing and objective when every card in the deck was stacked against them. All of those situations reflect more than just simple courage, but can also reflect a level of skill beyond what you see in the men standing to either side of them.

I think some of the awards should provide a bonus to one of the core stats: HP, TU, ACC, or REF (I don't really see a useful tie in for strength, and TU could be debated). Some of the harder to get awards that require some kind of accomplishment on the soldier's part (like the killing 5 aliens in a single mission) should provide an extra morale boost to nearby members of the squad. It always helps to know that you have someone who has proven themselves by your side.

[legit1337]

*snip*

I could not have said it better.

[thixotrop]

I also agree with Dirk Ralthar.

Although when coming to medals that give +1 Bravery and +1 Something, that something has to be programmed/calculated in someway.

Example:

• Unconscious at the end of ground combat or revived in the field by a comrade ==> Top tier "Surviving-a-nearly-lethal-wound"-Medal...whatever it will be. Giving +1 Bravery and +2 HP.
  
• Having a bleeding during combat and surviving ground combat ==> Second tier of that medal. Giving +1 Bravery and/or +1 HP.
  
• The first time wounded (not bleeding) during ground combat ==> Lower tier of that medal. Giving +1 Bravery only. This medal will be given only once.
  

I guess such things can be done for different ground combat events; fighting with carbine/pistol, sniper, using battons, grenades, shields (hm dunno?), rescueing civillians of imminent danger and so on

[StK]

I have to say I like the "Medals only give +1 bravery". Medals don't do anything else. A little metal thing doesnt make you shoot better and it doesn't armor you against enemy fire or make you quicker, its just a token that says "This man did something noteworthy in combat" and that might make you braver.

@Dirk "Medals can reflect talent": I disagree here. Well they could but fact is the soldier gets the stats _after_ I pin the thing on him and he didn't come with it. a recruiting stat of f.e. TUs 60 reflects talent.

[legit1337]

I have to say I like the "Medals only give +1 bravery". Medals don't do anything else. A little metal thing doesnt make you shoot better and it doesn't armor you against enemy fire or make you quicker, its just a token that says "This man did something noteworthy in combat" and that might make you braver.

@Dirk "Medals can reflect talent": I disagree here. Well they could but fact is the soldier gets the stats _after_ I pin the thing on him and he didn't come with it. a recruiting stat of f.e. TUs 60 reflects talent.

Performing noteworthy acts in combat do not make you a more experienced and dangerous combatant?

[Amaror]

Performing noteworthy acts in combat do not make you a more experienced and dangerous combatant?

No it doesn't.

Surviving a critical injury, doesn't make a soldier more resistant to bullets, the contrary would be the case in fact.

Additionaly killing a certain amount of enemies doesn't make a soldier better at shooting either.

Shooting makes soldiers better at shooting.

[Gauddlike]

It depends entirely how you look at the medal system.

If you look at the stat gain as an effect of the medal then it does seem a little odd that you can gain accuracy for gaining a medal.

In the same way it would seem odd that you became a better shot because you were awarded a marksmanship badge.

What legit is suggesting is that you look at the act that gave the medal and see the stat gain as a consequence of that action and the medal as a visual indicator of what they have gained.

So you are a better shot because you have proven your ability to shoot so are awarded a marskmanship badge rather than the other way around.

For example if someone manages to take on and defeat five enemies over the course of a battle then they may have a better knowledge of where to shoot them for best effect or more first hand experience of how the enemy moves, represented by increased accuracy in game.

This is not something that others will not also gain over time, also represented by their own accuracy gains.

In the same way gaining anything from medals could be classed as ridiculous.

Just because you got a medal you wouldn't become 0.65% more brave, especially if you got that medal for surviving when your whole squad was wiped out or for getting shot in the face with plasma.

Maybe the medals seen as negative could even give a negative effect.

You barely survive a battle so you get bonus morale (I am invincible!) but a penalty to hitpoints (My scars cause me some trouble when it gets cold) but that is just as 'gamey' as anything else.

The only non gamey option is for medals to only be awarded for things that are reflected in real world military organisations and to give no in game benefit but you can ebay them of for some quick cash if you get desperate.

I don't really care if medals stick with the current system or are more rewarding but that is because I couldn't even remember what the medals look like or what they are rewarded for until I looked it up.

The system is not noteworthy, I would say it is barely even noticeable.

Something to change that would be nice.

[crusherven]

No it doesn't.

Surviving a critical injury, doesn't make a soldier more resistant to bullets, the contrary would be the case in fact.

Additionaly killing a certain amount of enemies doesn't make a soldier better at shooting either.

Shooting makes soldiers better at shooting.

Exactly. Practice makes you better--if you keep it up, over time. That's already reflected by stat gain. Noteworthy achievements don't do jack squat except maybe make you more confident. Or not--surviving near death might make you averse to getting in that situation again.