How many Andorns fit into a small room waiting just for YOU?

[Monifix]

You might be suprised that many of us are playing ironman mode. Lost 2 colonels? Live with it. Lost the entire team? Live with it. I lost an entire 2nd team when 2 reapers burst forth from 2 hidden zombies.

Nice, it's the only (manly) way to play ;-D

Haha, I'm just kidding guys, I used to save scum too when I was a little babby.

[thixotrop]

Actually I don't care if you think save scumming is "baby"-tactics...

Nevertheless, I have reloaded this "situation" multiple times just to understand what happens when I do something here. And it isn't in any way logical. At one time the aliens stay where they are, ambushing. The other time they come down like hell.

So how do you react/change your tactics? Just sacrificing your soldiers because "c'est la vie" or shit happens? Sorry this is not my play style and furthermore not really helpful as new recruits take seemingly forever to gain enough experience to be useful.

I don't have a problem with changing my tactics but sacrificing experienced and well equipped soldiers is not correct. They are not Zergs!

Additionally as it has crystallized now more and more throughout different threads that there are some issues with passive aliens inside the UFOs, the hit chances and LOS targetting, I wanted to report this "situation" to discuss about.

[StellarRat]

thixotrop - You realize the AI is programmed with some randomness built in to keep players guessing, right? You can repeat the same situation and they won't always do the same thing. That's intentional.

[thixotrop]

Yeah I thought that was possible, and I appreciate such things.

However this shooting range ambush is not a "fair setup". I know I know, fair and combat don't go along and "I should live with it".

But what I have learned about Androns is that they are like Terminator, fearless, strong and capable of close combat. And even if they change their behaviour now and then I have never ever seen this since my beginning with V19.

A "crazy" example: If the nowadays russian government would suddenly change their minds into welcoming gay people and encouraging their regional counties to become individual and separate from russia you would also ask "what is going on now?"

Ok, ok far stretched I know, I said it was a "crazy idea". And I apologize if I have offended anyone, not my intension.

But for me this behaviour is so different from before that it seems unintended. In the wake of all the bug and balance discussion one can be suspicious I guess.

So, if this ambush is one possibility from now on, such missions will be impossible to solve without much better armor and soldiers with enough HP und TU to survive the reaction fire and counteract.

However, maybe the passive alien syndrome will be changed (a bit) and all of this discussion is obolete then.

[dpelectric]

Well, there is always the option that I employed: retreat. Of course you don't want to do that- nobody does- but running away to fight another day is a valid game mechanic.

Take, for example, the Union forces in the Civil War; they got their butts kicked and broke in panic many times, but somehow persevered to victory in the end. Or the Soviets in WWII. Or many other historical examples. Simply because retreat leaves a sour taste in your mouth doesn't necessarily mean it's intrinsically "unfair" for a player to be presented with the occasional almost unwinnable battle. In fact, I would contend it adds flavor and intensity to the game. There is no law that says a player must always be given a solid chance to win every single fight.

I see nothing wrong with forcing players to beat a "strategic retreat" every now and then. If you insist on carrying the fight through to the bitter end, then you have that option too, but be prepared to lose a few majors and colonels, as it should be

[Monifix]

Actually I don't care if you think save scumming is "baby"-tactics...

Naturally I was just in a mood to tease a bit (or maybe a lot.) You don't have to justify your playstyle to me or anyone of course.

So how do you react/change your tactics? Just sacrificing your soldiers because "c'est la vie" or shit happens? Sorry this is not my play style and furthermore not really helpful as new recruits take seemingly forever to gain enough experience to be useful.

I don't have a problem with changing my tactics but sacrificing experienced and well equipped soldiers is not correct. They are not Zergs!

Well, you learn the hard way to be very very careful I guess. For me and others who play "ironman" mode, the thrill is in the fact that your actions have consequences, and that you can't simply take a mistake back because you feel like you should have done something else, or maybe you got unlucky. It's what keeps players like me on the edge of my seat after having played a TON of x-com style games. I know that of course I can win the game if I reload every time something bad happens, so where is the fun? If I don't allow myself to do that then beating the game becomes a real (manly) challenge ;-D

Edited April 10, 2014 by Monifix

[thixotrop]

I have to admit that my last posting sounds a bit...grumpy. Sorry for that. I also think it is quite valid to meet a game situation that is not possible to win with established tactics or even with changed tactics. So then you have to retreat, which I did in that case eventually, and come back another day with changed armor, weapons and better soldiers. Accepted.

My only thought was on the balancing, the triggering of alien action and the drastically changed behaviour of the Androns (hope no one tells them).

Maybe I should "hope" to find another situation similar to this when my side is stronger. Let's see what are the odds then.

And thanks for not flaming me down due to my bit of overreacting.

[dpelectric]

For me and others who play "ironman" mode, the thrill is in the fact that your actions have consequences, and that you can't simply take a mistake back because you feel like you should have done something else, or maybe you got unlucky. It's what keeps players like me on the edge of my seat after having played a TON of x-com style games. I know that of course I can win the game if I reload every time something bad happens, so where is the fun? If I don't allow myself to do that then beating the game becomes a real (manly) challenge ;-D

I and others are just waiting for GH to balance the psionics and fix the crashes. Then I'm absolutely going to play ironman- couldn't agree more it's the only way to go (and the way the devs meant it to be).

[StellarRat]

The problem with ironman is a mis-click or a cat or even another piece of software can ruin your game. That's why I don't play that way.

[Monifix]

The problem with ironman is a mis-click or a cat or even another piece of software can ruin your game. That's why I don't play that way.

I don't think I've ever had a mis-click "ruin my game," might have lost me a soldier a few times though. But you get used to losing people when you play ironman.

[StellarRat]

I don't think I've ever had a mis-click "ruin my game," might have lost me a soldier a few times though. But you get used to losing people when you play ironman.

I have. One slip can start a chain of events that can lose you a whole team.

[Monifix]

I have. One slip can start a chain of events that can lose you a whole team.

Even so, losing a team doesn't equate to losing the game necessarily. One of my most memorable playthroughs of the original x-com had me losing 2 teams of 14 soldiers, and even a dropship to the 2nd and 3rd missions. As the last survivor got gunned down with a shot to the back while he scrambled to try to get inside the second time I wiped (the first time I managed to get my last guy back into the dropship) I was sure that I was completely screwed. I still managed to beat the game but it was not easy for sure. I lost a ton of soldiers because i fell so far behind, and I even had to sell an interceptor to get a new dropship, but I have such fond memories from that, and ultimately the feeling of success was so satisfying. THAT is Ironman ;-)

Edited April 11, 2014 by Monifix

[StellarRat]

Even so, losing a team doesn't equate to losing the game necessarily. One of my most memorable playthroughs of the original x-com had me losing 2 teams of 14 soldiers, and even a dropship to the 2nd and 3rd missions. As the last survivor got gunned down with a shot to the back while he scrambled to try to get inside the second time wiped (the first time i managed to get my last guy back.) I was shure that I was completely screwed. I still managed to beat the game but it was not easy for sure. I lost a ton of soldiers because i fell so far behind, and I even had to sell an interceptor to get a new dropship, but I have such fond memories from that, and ultimately the feeling of success was so satisfying. THAT is Ironman ;-)

True, but when I lose a whole team through a simple accidental click it's a rage quit and reload (if possible.)

[Monifix]

True, but when I lose a whole team through a simple accidental click it's a rage quit and reload (if possible.)

I admit I might be a little masochistic in this regard, haha. If I misclick I don't rage, I just call the soldier an idiot and think that he deserves to die. ;-)

[Gijs-Jan]

WARNING: Peek behind the curtain!

Ok, so to provide some insight into this:

The aliens within a UFO have a slight tendency to stick to upper floors, with higher ranks having a higher tendency. (FloorPreference aiprops.xml)

This should be (somewhat) negated by their incentive to search unexplored tiles for Xenonauts (ProbabilisticSearch; aiprops.xml), and even further negated when they can reach "known" targets (Squad LOS), or receive requests for backup (AI attacking Xenonauts).

The behavior (sticking to upper floors) is amplified by the need to stay out of unexplored danger zones (Teleporter with no cover).

So by tweaking the weight of the Probabilistic Search, we might give the AI more incentive to come downstairs (more risky behavior).

Or we could give the AI knowledge about the UFO being breached, which would make it want to move downstairs, and then trigger Squad LOS / backup requests.

[Skitso]

I'd love to see aliens pulling back and teleporting to upper floors too when having too much losses downstairs.

[silencer]

And not crashing the game

[silenced]

Had 9 (Andron + Harridan) in a Carrier command room recently. That was the moment I remembered why I wanted to pack my Predator-Heavies with spare RPG's and one additional RPG-round. Sometimes, only brute force helps.

Because of this amount of units in a small room one Alien turn took like 3 minutes.

[Larus]

I always take a few C4 / Plasma Charge with me for such moments. They are not only good to open doors.

Just take a guy you don't care about, set the detonation time to 1 or 2 and let him/her step into the room or teleporter. Even if your soldier dies immeditatly will the room be completly destroyed. But luckely they come usually out to play

[dpelectric]

Just came across the "Thixotrop Conundrum" in two more landing ships. Seven-eight androns and harridans each time. And they burst fire on whoever I send up the teleporter immediately, before I so much as move a muscle. I even sent a guy up with TWO ASSAULT SHIELDS (320 damage absorption) multiple times from different angles via both teleporters, and he was cut down instantly by burst fire from slightly different angles. And these camping aliens will NOT move no matter what, doesn't matter if you wait 20 turns.

This is, truly, an impossible scenario: there is no way to overcome it. Retreat is the only option (with a bare minimum of one certain death, if you don't cheat and reload). That's why I can't wait for Kabill to finish his UFO breaching mod!!!

EDIT: So far as Larus' approach (above), well, that might work if you have expendable guys with you, but I had my A-team on both these assaults. And a single C4 no way would've taken all those ETs out. Nor would Silenced's approach have worked; the sheer firepower of the massed androns/harridans would shred Predator armor, too. Might work in a carrier command room, but not in this exact situation

EDIT 2: I've also noticed, on the 3-4 times total this has happened to me, that the first floor of the landing ship is always empty (because they're all massed upstairs, waiting). So my advice to anybody playing Ironman or who doesn't want to cheat/reload: if you're fighting androns on a landing ship mission, and the first floor is eerily abandoned, get out!!!

Edited May 26, 2014 by dpelectric

[Belmakor]

I know that you can't teleport items between levels (although that would be cool in itself).

But; what happens to items on the ground when you teleport between levels? Do they come with you and could they come with you? You could have one sacrificial lamb teleport up 2 or 3 C4s. Throw an Alenium or plasma grenade at the faraway ones (get all shot up) then next turn! BOOM!

[spacebug]

For situations like that, find you highest reflex soilder, and equip him with a pistol (for reaction bonus) and C4. Prime C4 to 2 turns, place him next to the teleporter, end turn. In the next turn, move him to the teleporter (3 tu cost) and then drop the C4 (0 tu cost) and teleport back. EDIT: important, do not throw it, just drop it on the ground.

Only works if you have someone with realy good reflex rating. If not, use the sacrificial approach:

Choose your lowest rank soilder, equip him with 2 C4, prime both, go up the teleporter, see him die, end turn.

[Chris]

dpelectric - is that in V22.9?

[dpelectric]

Spacebug: they fire on you immediately, the split-second you appear. I tried sending a pistol guy up, and a guy up with no weapon at all. Instant death. Yes, a "volunteer" with two C4 would probably work, but I'm having a hard time finding anybody. It's that damn Xenounion, with all their regulations about safety and "worker's rights".

Chris: Yes

[kabill]

Just a thought, but has anyone experienced teleporter camping by aliens other than Androns? Might be useful to know if it's something specific to their AI parameters?