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Optional V21.5 TU Balance Patch Released!


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The changes from the Experimental balance patch have been incorporated into V21 Experimental 6, so these balance patches are no longer required!

This is a small update for V21 Experimental 5 that must be installed manually if you wish to use it. It rebalances the weapons in the game in two different ways, and I'm interested in seeing which people think plays better. To install the mods, just copy them into the /assets/ folder of the game directory.

Firstly, I've done an updated balance patch using the current system, which you can download here: (removed)

Standard Changelog:

  • Fire cost of weapons reduced by 10-15%, as the starting squad have an average of 55 TU rather than 50.
  • I've removed the "heavy" penalty from all weapons; % TU scaling means it is not needed.
  • Soldiers now have 30-70 starting range for all stats, including TU.
  • Soldiers can now gain up to 2 TU per mission, and the cap has been raised back to 99 (from 1 and 79 respectively).

I've also done an experimental balance patch for you to compare the updated "normal" balance to. This follows the principles laid out in my Weapon Role thread.

You can get it here: (removed)

There's been a LOT of changes in the experimental balance patch - in general, all units can now shoot more than before. I'm unsure about the overall accuracy level, but I'm happy with the way all the human weapons compare to one another (and the same for the alien weapons) so I think most of the tweaking can be done by changing the human / alien accuracy modifiers at the top of weapons_gc.xml...it's currently set to 1.25 for both.

Let me know your thoughts on which you prefer, and why. It'll help me decide how to integrate some of the ideas into the official builds.

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Laser pistol has its normal shot TU less than snapshot TU after the normal patch. This is so with any soldiers using a pistol, some with shield some without. Like Snap 10 TU, normal 8 TU or so. Seems to be a problem. I didn't post this to the bugs section to keep it specific here.

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Still trying out the experimental changes, but I do have one initial suggestion.

I would reinstate the 'Heavy' penalty on Machine Guns, halve the AP to 40%, and decrease the shot count to 5 (for reader reference it is currently 80% AP, shot count 10, and no 'Heavy' penalty). The potential damage output would remain the same.

With this change the Predator suit would have three choices – remain in place and shoot twice, advance and shoot once, or use all TU's for scouting. They could function more as an armored spearhead and regular soldiers would realize a much smaller gain since they would again suffer the 'Heavy' penalty.

I have added this change and the game does feel better tactically. Plus I think 5 shots fits the game's system/aesthetics more.

Thanks. :D

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Incidentally, I've added recoil back for MGs and set it to 75. You only get full accuracy with a 75 strength shooter (or a Predator). However, as I type this I realise it's pretty stupid to have done that given MG's already use the lower of strength and accuracy as the soldier's accuracy....so I'm actually penalising low-strength soldiers twice. I'll update weapons_gc in the experimental folder to fix that.

Caaygun - I'm not getting that problem. Just checked and it doesn't seem to be happening for me.

I'm quite a big fan of the 10 bullet MG burst so I don't really want to change that, to be honest.

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Vaelius, the first balance patch is a limited set of "normal" changes that can be considered changes that would happen anyway. The second patch is a more extensive and far more radical set of changes that are different to the first patch, which follow the guidelines of the Weapon Roles thread. Chris would like us to compare and contrast the two different patches, to see what we think, especially of the changes in the second balance patch. It seems that if you install one patch, it will overwrite it the other.

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Incidentally, I've added recoil back for MGs and set it to 75. You only get full accuracy with a 75 strength shooter (or a Predator). However, as I type this I realise it's pretty stupid to have done that given MG's already use the lower of strength and accuracy as the soldier's accuracy....so I'm actually penalising low-strength soldiers twice. I'll update weapons_gc in the experimental folder to fix that.

Caaygun - I'm not getting that problem. Just checked and it doesn't seem to be happening for me.

I'm quite a big fan of the 10 bullet MG burst so I don't really want to change that, to be honest.

I think the double penalty is okay. Think of a mediocre starting soldier with 55 accuracy and 55 strength. Without recoil he might as well use the MG. And if he earns strength and accuracy pretty evenly over his missions then no problem. I like the idea of recoil as it give me a real reason to pick high strength rookies... even if that sacrifices a little accuracy.

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OPTIONL BALANCE?????!!!!!

GENIUS!!!!!

anyway, what about modifiers to weapons stats, mainly ammo load. Maybe it would be easer to use without a full weapon load ?

also, for the next build, is it possible to change the behaviour of different types of alien [non combatant, soldier ect..]

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I tried the optional balance and quite liked it. Few thoughts however:

-Now that the heavy weapon penalty is removed, the sniper rifle feels kinda boring and OP as you can move at will with it before shooting. It was more satisfying to know that if I havn't moved, the shot will be god like. Now I can run for 3-4 tiles even with a rookie and still get a 95% shot away. I suggest either to put the heavy weapon penalty back (preferable) or up the aimed shot of sniper to 100%TU and normal to ~75%TU

-I think MG should have the recoil penalty. If you are half blind weak sauce rookie (ACC:55/STR:55), you still should be penalize for using a firearm not suitable for you. Also, heavy weapon penalty back please! :)

-An AR should be a bit more time intensive to aim and shoot than a side arm pistol.

(BTW, it would be funny as hell to be able to dual wield pistols with half the TU cost and quarter of the accuracy so that it wouldn't make any sense but from the adjacent tile. I know it won't happen because rendering is a pain, but still. :D)

Edited by Skitso
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Laser pistol has its normal shot TU less than snapshot TU after the normal patch. This is so with any soldiers using a pistol, some with shield some without. Like Snap 10 TU, normal 8 TU or so. Seems to be a problem. I didn't post this to the bugs section to keep it specific here.

Caaygun - I'm not getting that problem. Just checked and it doesn't seem to be happening for me.

Laser Pistol Snap shot is about %20, Normal is about %15. Accuracy, range everything else is normal, just the TU. It is persistent for all GC missions. Other weapons seem okay, though I'll test with ballistic pistol next time.

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Check weapons_gc.xml, see what it's listed there as?

Yep

- <Weapon name="weapon.laserpistol" bulletType="normal" emptySound="Empty Click 1">

<props range="10" hands="1" recoil="0" weight="2" isHeavy="0" clipSize="9" reloadAPCost="40" reloadSound="Weapon Laser Pistol Reload" reactionModifier="2" />

- <SingleShot sound="Weapon Laser Pistol Single" delay="0.6" suppressionValue="10" suppressionRadius="1">

<Set1 ap="21" accuracy="70" />

<Set2 ap="16" accuracy="100" />

And it was specific to laser pistol. Too bad I'll need to let go with the new buffed laser pistols :(

What should the correct value be?

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Yep

- <Weapon name="weapon.laserpistol" bulletType="normal" emptySound="Empty Click 1">

<props range="10" hands="1" recoil="0" weight="2" isHeavy="0" clipSize="9" reloadAPCost="40" reloadSound="Weapon Laser Pistol Reload" reactionModifier="2" />

- <SingleShot sound="Weapon Laser Pistol Single" delay="0.6" suppressionValue="10" suppressionRadius="1">

<Set1 ap="21" accuracy="70" />

<Set2 ap="16" accuracy="100" />

And it was specific to laser pistol. Too bad I'll need to let go with the new buffed laser pistols :(

What should the correct value be?

Those numbers are reversed I think. I think snapshot should 16 and normal is 21 if I remember correctly.
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I've only just bought the game and I actually really like the Heavy penalty of heavy weapons. Planning where your sniper and LMG guy end their turn so they can be effective the next turn adds a level of planning that is enjoyable.

Though it feels like making firing a weapon cost a percentage of a unit's TUs kind of makes TUs largely useless. A rookie who stands and fights can fire as often as a hardened veteran. That does not seem like a good mechanic to me.

Sure it allows for easy balancing, but that's only because the whole TU stat is crippled and nearly taken out of the picture.

And is a hardened veteran firing a LMG twice really such a big problem? If the player kept someone alive that long, and trained them up to be awesome, then that's the reward they get.

Edited by Bulletcatcher McGee
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Though it feels like making firing a weapon cost a percentage of a unit's TUs kind of makes TUs largely useless. A rookie who stands and fights can fire as often as a hardened veteran. That does not seem like a good mechanic to me.

Sure it allows for easy balancing, but that's only because the whole TU stat is crippled and nearly taken out of the picture.

And is a hardened veteran firing a LMG twice really such a big problem? If the player kept someone alive that long, and trained them up to be awesome, then that's the reward they get.

I would suggest reading through the lengthy discussion on the subject here first:

% TU vs Static TU firing cost

Then perhaps download the stable v20 from steam to try out the previous static TU system we had, especially in the late game where you will face squadrons of veteran aliens who also start spamming snap and auto shots like your veterans. This adds some apparently undesirable exponential difficulty and misbalance to the late game, and makes the TU stat be the one dominating property in the game over the other stats, and over soldier equipment.

And then if you still have reservations about the new system after trying the old one out and reading through the heated debate about it, input your thoughts perhaps here:

Side effect of %-based system (no fixed numbers for shots)

or in another thread where the dev will I'm sure be more than happy to read about.

Edited by Caaygun
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I've only just bought the game and I actually really like the Heavy penalty of heavy weapons. Planning where your sniper and LMG guy end their turn so they can be effective the next turn adds a level of planning that is enjoyable.

Though it feels like making firing a weapon cost a percentage of a unit's TUs kind of makes TUs largely useless. A rookie who stands and fights can fire as often as a hardened veteran. That does not seem like a good mechanic to me.

Sure it allows for easy balancing, but that's only because the whole TU stat is crippled and nearly taken out of the picture.

And is a hardened veteran firing a LMG twice really such a big problem? If the player kept someone alive that long, and trained them up to be awesome, then that's the reward they get.

so my first glance of the change i would say i would have to agree. after playing it awhile i have to disagree 1200% about it crippling TU as a stat, for me at least before this change rookies where just bait until 60 TU. before 60 there was no real choice about shoot or move because you did not have the time to do either(at least vs high end aliens). despite being called rookies, they are at least in the lore former navy seals, spetsnaz etc... with this change my rookies dont feel like there getting out preformed by farmer bob who killed 2 aliens in one of my first missions( build 19 i think). now TU feels in line with the others mostly. for me the go to stat when hiring new guys is reflex because its risky to level.

also my vets are still much loved with there ability to carry tons of stuff with out crying, throw grenades and C-4 any distance, and lastly but not least the ability to hit the broad side of a barn.

the heavy weapon penalty i think there is some fine tuning to be done here still but with the fire costs the way they are you cant really move and shoot. my personal thought on it is that a LMG standing still should be able to get off 2 bursts but not move at all, then spend most of a turn reloading with a 80% or so reload costs. this sounds over powered but i think the downtime makes it so you cant spam them. rights now i have not gotten to any thing really beefy where shot guns and ARs are not melting face just fine. so i dont find the LMG really filling a roll as they are, but when Androns start rolling down the block the extra damage might make it shine.

this is a bit of a open question to any one who wants to answer. are LMG bugged with reaction fire or is it intentional that any time one of my LMG guys gets reacted on hes going to get shot at all 5 times that alien can fire? side note if intentional i am fine with it.

Edited by quiescat
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Yeah, the % TU discussion has been covered in great detail in the thread linked a few posts up. Opinions are still welcome on the topic but I'd ask people to read the thread first so we're not just treading the same ground over and over.

@quiescat - yes, there's a bug where using a weapon with 0 reaction fire modifier reduces your soldier's initiative to 0, which means any alien with sufficient TU is able to immediately reaction fire at them on sight. It's on our fix list to separate out the reaction fire modifier and disabling the ability of a weapon to reaction fire.

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Actually something that has come to my mind in this thread.

When creating a game I currently choose a determined difficulty setting. But, would it be a lot of extra effort on the part of the team to have an 'advanced difficulty options' section, where you can choose things like 'heavy weapon penalty', 'more TU to shoot' etc.

Don't take those examples as golden, they're poorly worded but I think I have got the idea across.

It would be refreshing to be able to set up my game as a combination of 'base settings' (normal, veteran, impossible) with optional tweaks, for example how a game of Civilization can be set up.

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Hello Everyone,

Im new to this forum but old playing Classic Xcom and Xenonauts.

I really congratulate and appraise the great effort, compromise and success of the staff of Goldhawk. You made a game to never be forgotten.

About this topic, especially the Experimental Patch and TU mecanics i had to say:

- TU Prgression of 2TU per mission is to much for me, soldiers gets quickly speedy and overactioned (In the original Xcom %TU and TU progression represents the experience of soldiers in combat field, that is reflected in more movement and equipement movement)

- Static TU consumtion is a nice idea, and I understand the propouse, but I prefer that the game evolve more in the QUALITY of the weapons and armors than the AMOUNT of fire that they can make. As the same way that other person says, at highlevel the veteran soldiers not only have powerfull equipement, they can execute lot more shots, in a double exponential equation.

- The game looks solid and very fun, but I dont know why soldiers dont get penalized in TU if they are wounded.

You have GOLD here, this game is the best remastered edition of Xcom but how to exploit the potential of the game?

My recomendations:

Weapons medals: Reduce or increase stats of a weapon in hand of specialized soldier, reflected in %TU cost for some weapons, Range, Damage, Recoil, etc. (This is propoused by other member of this forum).

No more than Humans: Our soldiers are .... humans, just humans. Reflecting the effects of wounds in game statistics could add lot of flavor to the game. I keep in mind a system similar to Bleeding, for example:

"Your soldiers has heavy wound in the arm, minus - % aim until healed"

"Your soldier has a leg broken, the cost of movement is triplicated"

".....Deep wound in the head, the sight radius and %aim is heavy reduced"

".....The impact of enemy attacks in the chest cause your unit to get breath, the soldier loose 50% of TU for the next turn" (Similar to suppresion, but suppresed heavy attacked soldier can loose 100% of his TU)

At this way you can be at middle of heavy combat with your proud Predator Soldier in the middle, wounded in different ways, and this wounds apply to the aliens too.

Trauma: I see that in the game one of the soldier not necessary result in death, one of them can survive. Could be really great if this soldiers has TRAUMA in certain situations. EX: This soldier been in panic if see alien explosives.

I really enjoy this game and again.

THANK YOU!!!!

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Actually something that has come to my mind in this thread.

When creating a game I currently choose a determined difficulty setting. But, would it be a lot of extra effort on the part of the team to have an 'advanced difficulty options' section, where you can choose things like 'heavy weapon penalty', 'more TU to shoot' etc.

Don't take those examples as golden, they're poorly worded but I think I have got the idea across.

It would be refreshing to be able to set up my game as a combination of 'base settings' (normal, veteran, impossible) with optional tweaks, for example how a game of Civilization can be set up.

You can mod those things just by changing some numbers in a text file.

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