plucx Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I started this treads to discuss the BL (Blaster Laucher) and potentially find a way to make it a viable mod in Xenonauts. BL was used in UFO as a mean to avoid long missions and to quicken the game in end game. It also helped to debunk hidden alies by killing them or removing every cover in an area. It's drawback were not many since it destroyed almost every map tile, aliens and object it did encounter. It was counterbalanced by it's own strenght wich was destruction. As such The BL was more balanced in TFTD since most salvagable items were near each others in key area. Such area were command center, cockpit, engine and computer core. The tiles were also dangerous since they could detonate a BL prematurely. The use of a BL has to be weighted a lot more than in X-Com. Extensive use of a BL made poor salvage and the elerium cost outweighed gains made in several ufo ground mission. The terrain design was also clearly intended to hamper it's use (like in the TFTD missions) and i suspect some randomness was included in it's travel path. Such limitation were not present in X-Com and brought abuse since UFO and base layout enabled their use without much drawback as long as you got ammo. While clearly a overpowered weapon, the BL did fasten the end game play while the last research was made. Please be constructive in your comments. Ideas: Less Waypoints Destructible warhead Turn base movement TU used to move Destroy salvagable items when used Persistant damage in a large zone Heavy construction cost and/or rare components. Lower Score Lower reputation with country hosting mission Different Destruction pattern like Fan (V), lines. Wire guided so when changing direction there is a chance the cable snap, making the missile go rogue. Weird explosion shape like a fractal. Wire guided so has a max range before exploding or loosing control. Disposable drone version. Explosive version is blind. After a quick reply from Chris, it is confirmed that waypoints are troublesome. As such, here is a basic concept of the weapon as I see it: The BL spawn a unit named [blasterBomb] wich is controlled as a player unit. Ennemy units react to [blasterBomb] as they would with any player unit. I think an average % to hit would be good. When it is destroyed, it explode in a large radius, destroying object and tiles alike. Persitant "radiation" damage could be implemented in the zone affected. The destruction of the [blasterBomb] is trigerred by the player, [blasterBomb] destruction by the ennemy or end of turn. Using the BL means a score penalty when the bomb explode (unit killed). To enable the self destruction of the [blasterBomb], the unit could have several properties like low healt and bleeding damage. The unit should be blind. Time units should enable it to travel far enough not to kill the shooter and close enough to require soldier placement. Probability of self destruction each time a command is issued after the first one. Construction cost: Around what is found on a small intact UFO. Computer of some kind, Fuel, engine. Stats: Damage : 200 TU : 120 Healt : 30 Armor : 0 Bleeding damage : 30 Blast radius : 20 Persistant damage : 10 dmg Duration : 100 turns Edited February 3, 2012 by plucx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 que people that thinks plucx is trying to get Chris to implement it instead of the community modding it in after game release! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucx Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 que people that thinks plucx is trying to get Chris to implement it instead of the community modding it in after game release! You give me too much credits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 a way to balance it is to remove way points, but then it is just a strong rocket launcher. Which we will have in Xenonauts. Or you could limit the number of waypoints, in which case you'd just find better ways of deploying you troops so not as many waypoints will be needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Would giving the blaster rockets AP (can only move so far in a turn) and force each way point to require 1 turn (meaning if the missiles AP doesnt get all the way to a corner and the next waypoint is only 2 squares away it will still be the third turn (and waypoint) before the missile actually moves around the corner.) balance it? If the waypoints still needs to be set before the launch that gives aliens and what not the chance to get out of the way. If it is still overpowered you could allways add the option to shoot it down since it will be present during your turn (could also make them indestructible if you prefere that. possibly motivate it with a forcefield or that its peculiar propulsion prevents other ballistics/energy beams to hit it or whatever.) PS. You give me too much credits! I was mostly just trying to preempt people not understanding what you were doing from complaining, to keep the discussion on track. DS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm not sure if waypoint functionality can actually be modded in. It'd be a whole new game mechanic and Xenonauts isn't that moddable afaik but who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucx Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I think BL could gain in being a two sided blade kind of weapon. As such, using the weapon could trigger a nuclear reaction that irradiate the whole sector or a large zone. About the consequences: Incendiary like damage in a very large zone, hurting all living thing and destroying dropped gear. Lower the mission score Lower reputation with faction Civilian likely to get killed by the radiation Outer UFO hull is imprevious to the weapon damage Heavy damage also destroy salvalge, bodies and weapons. It could be an instant destruction for all usable items in the map since the radiation would make them too dangerous to use. With the BL, the player could then have either the choice of keeping the salvage or quickly vaporizing the aliens. Edited February 3, 2012 by plucx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike10019314 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 a wire guided missile might be fun? take a turn too tight or get to close to a object and you break the wire a blaster bomb like weapon could also be limited to 2 or 3 waypoints more like a top attack at missile. a shaped blast could balance it as well a fan shaped explosion comming from the impact point insted of a wide area crader like the xcom one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 How would you deploy the wire (game mechanically) in the wireguided missile idea? I'm sorry but I don't think I understand the suggestion because it just confuses me What is the point of guiding a missile along a wire if you have to shoot /deploy the wire first anyway? I assume that you will need some kind of line of sight for the wire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucx Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Most likely the wire will only be an explanation why the player can lose control of the missile. Let say the player fire the missile. He give several way points then at waypoint 3 the missile goes nuts and carry strait on. The cable snap because, he snap. I don't se however how to implement this with the environment so I would go for a % of chance that the BL goes rogue and it is explained with that. Obviously there is also a maximum range with this tech, wich make limiting implication. You can't snipe from afar. Edited February 3, 2012 by plucx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike10019314 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 the wire would let you guide the rocket... maybe only lets you drop a waypoint in a cone infront of your last waypoint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 no the wire controls the missile. The missile is fired, and trails a wire behind it, which can be used to send signals to the missile to adjust it's course etc. It doesn't go first =p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucx Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 He meant like in the old Sci-fi movies where you could se the steel string where a ufo was hung! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 no the wire controls the missile. The missile is fired, and trails a wire behind it, which can be used to send signals to the missile to adjust it's course etc. It doesn't go first =p Ah thanks for clearing that up. My imagination got the best of me He meant like in the old Sci-fi movies where you could se the steel string where a ufo was hung! Something like that. I was a little bit befuddled about the whole concept the waay I imagined it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The waypoint mechanics aren't something that can be modded in, I'm afraid. It would require adding new code. I don't know how much work it'd be, but it's something we might consider adding for modders after release if the game sells well. People will invariably want to mod the blaster bombs back in, which I can understand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucx Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Maybe we are seeing this wrong. As an alternative, we could spawn a unit named "Blaster bomb" spawn in front of the launching player. Gorlom idea btw. Something akin to probably the Crysalid spawning code? As such, the missile behave like a drone that move and can be destroyed. Once exploded, it would be "killed" meaning it could automaticly influence mission score without too much coding. It also means the aliens could make it explode as a reaction and as such we would not need waypoints. Simple and sleek. Still, that mean modders would need to decompile some of the units behavior code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 It would need to be a blind drone as well or they would make the perfect disposable scouts that could also take out anything they find with no danger to your team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucx Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Excellent point! Also, there might be a point in having an disposable drone that cost around 25k. So the soldier keep being cheaper that way Yeah, I loved my rookies, especially thoses I named "plasma fodder". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucx Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 As such, here is a basic concept of the weapon as I see it: The BL spawn a unit named [blasterBomb] wich is controlled as a player unit. Ennemy units react to [blasterBomb] as they would with any player unit. I think an average % to hit would be good. When it is destroyed, it explode in a large radius, destroying object and tiles alike. Persitant "radiation" damage could be implemented in the zone affected. The destruction of the [blasterBomb] is trigerred by the player, [blasterBomb] destruction by the ennemy or end of turn. Using the BL means a score penalty when the bomb explode (unit killed). To enable the self destruction of the [blasterBomb], the unit could have several properties like low healt and bleeding damage. The unit should be blind. Time units should enable it to travel far enough not to kill the shooter and close enough to require soldier placement. Probability of self destruction each time a command is issued after the first one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike10019314 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 how about a dial a yeild warhead for a missile? maybe even diffrent blast shapes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucx Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I included blast shape in the idea tread for the blaster launcher. See in first page. Dial a yield? Like 911 call to these coordinates? Dual yield? Nah, it's already a monster of a modding project there. I'm not even sure if it can be done and I know i'm not qualified to code it. Might help in other areas tough, but not coding. Havent touch that in over 12 years now. Edited February 4, 2012 by plucx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 So basically having it spawn as a blind, half dead, bleeding trooper with hi-ex strapped to its back? Have you been talking to Sathra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Sathra would have it strapped to a monkey, or a mind controlled grey =p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 So basically having it spawn as a blind, half dead, bleeding trooper with hi-ex strapped to its back?Have you been talking to Sathra? Rading too quickly that looked like "his ex" which made that all the more evul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 especially if it was a harsh breakup and she still has her claws free... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.