alien weapons

[tscho]

Sorry to open a thread for this. But i couldnt find it in the search.

Why isn't there an option to equip soldiers pre-combat, even when you can actually use them in combat?

[Max_Caine]

It's a design decision. As has been explained to me, alien weapons are supposed to be a weapon of last resort - something a solider could pick up and use on the field where there is no other option. It is not supposed to be the first option, which it would be if you could equip alien weapons. (Which is why they are all auto-sold).

[StellarRat]

They're also horribly inaccurate. Even a laser is better in nearly all cases.

[Myrmuzduur]

It's a design decision. As has been explained to me, alien weapons are supposed to be a weapon of last resort - something a solider could pick up and use on the field where there is no other option. It is not supposed to be the first option, which it would be if you could equip alien weapons. (Which is why they are all auto-sold).

Then they should be either unequippable at all times (human hands can't operate them) or they get added to your Stores after looting them after a mission, whereupon you can then equip your soldiers with them or sell them.

As it is, it's awkward. For example the first time I played this game back in v19 I never bothered researching lasers and was using ballistics pretty much all the time. I found looting aliens during a mission for their guns was very useful.

I also found that sometimes these guns would remain equipped on my soldiers for the next mission.

But in general if the Xenonauts could use these plasma weapons which are clearly superior to conventional, then they would and it makes no sense to auto-sell them. So either disallow their use by humans entirely or give the player the option to hoard and use captured alien guns.

[Gauddlike]

They are supposed to have at least a 50% accuracy penalty when used by humans.

This was so that they could still be picked up and used in an emergency if you had run out of ammunition so you at least stood a chance of defending yourself.

The accuracy penalty should make them a poor choice outside of an emergency situation.

The devs wanted to discourage players from taking the same path as in the original game where your economy was basically inconsequential when it came to weapons and ammunition as you would easily recover more ammunition than you used in every mission.

The weapons can be used but according to the game lore not reloaded by humans and suffer a massive penalty to accuracy.

In that case I would definitely not consider carrying one into combat as my main weapon when human versions are available which do not suffer from these drawbacks.

That means the alien weapons are not clearly superior and in fact are quite inferior in everything but damage, always assuming you can manage to hit the target.

If they remain equipped then that is a bug and should be reported as one if it is still in the current version.

[a333]

Alien weapons are quite contradictive because they are universal for all aliens.

You see, they are easily being wielded by weak caesans and strong sebillians, so you can't say they are heavy. All weapon-wielding species have palms and fingers, even though they obviously evolved differently. That means handles should be as universal as possible too. Even by the looks of this handles you can say they aren't that incomfortable for human hands.

I understand why these weapons were made universal, and i don't that picky about lore consistency. But — i'm against the accuracy penalty. You can't easily discover it, because of the random nature of accuracy. It promotes savescumming tactic. There are lot of situations when higher damage could be preferable, teaching novice players to see alien weapons as useful. As a result, you'll get a lot of questions like one that opens this theme.

I just pretend there is a genetic safequard on this weapons and i don't pick them up at all.

[Gauddlike]

I am pretty sure the accuracy penalty was listed on the xenopedia entry for the alien weapons but I haven't checked recently, is this not the case?

I can understand that some players would like to use them but I also understand that the devs don't want them to become a mainstay of the human arsenal so allowing them to be used with some penalties is a decent middle ground, although not ideal for either party.

I would personally have allowed the weapons to sit in stores and be taken on missions but I am also against the idea of anything being auto sold.

Save scumming to get around the accuracy penalty is possible but why bother if you have access to better human weapons?

If you cannot carry them into the fight then the only time this would be an issue would be if you were in a desperate enough situation to have needed to pick up an unsuitable weapon and try to use it instead of the weapon you brought with you.

If that was the case save scumming is also promoted by the situation so anyone who used that tactic would likely already be doing it.

Alien weapons ARE useful.

In an emergency if you have underestimated the amount of ammunition you need to take with you or not been prepared for the amount/toughness of enemies you will face then you can grab a plasma weapon of a dead enemy to ensure there is at least some chance of completing the mission beyond melee weapons.

They are just not supposed to be as useful as the weapons that have been designed and built for your troops.

An accuracy penalty communicates this quite effectively.

What else would you prefer that accomplishes the same goals of allowing the players to use the weapons but not allowing them to be a viable option to replace human tech?

[Myrmuzduur]

I never found them to be terribly inaccurate when I used them. Sure the heavy plasma was inaccurate but it's supposed to be a shotgun analogue so I only ever used that up close anyway.

The plasma cannon and precision plasma virtually replaced my rocket launcher and sniper rifles for a good portion of my first game.

I actually found the precision plasma to be more accurate and damaging than the ballistic equivalent, therefore I would always seek them out for my snipers. The precision laser however was clearly superior when I eventually manufactured it..... but only in terms of damage.

Again, never had accuracy problems with Alien weaponry when I was using it in v19. The precision plasma regularly gave me 95% to-hit at range so..... *shrug*

Also as a general aside about the Stores: at present the player only seems to be managing a very small amount of material there. Alenium, Alien Alloys and any equipment you might have manufactured. Very little of that will need to be sold or otherwise managed so if you aren't going to give the player a choice whether to sell Alien loot it makes me wonder why there is a Store management screen at all, given how little is done with it.

I think auto-selling should be done away with, at least with regard to equipment like weapons and grenades that your troops can actually use. That or disallow their use entirely by humans. I liked Alien weapons to use, but I don't mind not being able to use them: it makes getting the Human plasma weaponry all that more desirable.

[Gauddlike]

I am not sure if the penalty to accuracy is actually working at the moment.

It was causing a problem where the aliens were also suffering that penalty so it may have been temporarily removed at some point.

[a333]

I meant the accuracy penalty isn't very obvious for the player. Xenopedia entry (which isn't even accessible during ground combat) is not something everyone will read thorougly. And accuracy penalty can't be seen that easily. Many will blame bad luck instead of choices they made (because you have to read xenopedia or learn elsewhere about that).

Therefore player may pick up an alien weapon, behold it's power (in terms of raw damage) but then it's taken away. This raises questions.

I don't quite know how you should properly punish player for alien weapon use. I do have thoughts about misfire/exploding chance which could be messaged to the player same way the bleeding/morale events info come (John Doe weapon is overheating).

But then again, it's chances. Chances are bane of game balance.

[Gauddlike]

If it was as simple as a pop up message then you could do the same with the accuracy penalty when you pick the weapon up.

Luck and random chance make the difference between a great game and a game that is just good.

They are also a pain in the rear end to balance and work with as you say

I would assume most people would at least examine the weapon in their inventory before equipping it.

Maybe the accuracy penalty should be displayed clearly there?