squigoth Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I've been playing for months now and I've yet to see the aliens open the door of a ship and attack my troopers as they assemble outside the door for an assault. That used to happen in "that other game" and was the cause of allot of apprehension while I was getting ready to assault a ship. Perhaps we need to tweak the AI and bring that into the game a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefsbrian Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I haven't played the v20 runs, but I have been swarmed through doors before, hence why my door breaches are always in a concave shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squigoth Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 Like I said, I've yet to see it and last night I had a group of guys (3) stand at the doorway of the ship for about 8 turns waiting for some of their comrades to finish the map sweep and join them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventuswings Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 This is reflected on base missions too, where it consists of breach after breach after breach... Think it could have used more branching areas like Xenonauts base or that of UFO Defense for more interesting dynamic instead of so many dead ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Yeah, it's something we'll hopefully address before release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapare Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 The weird thing is, I have seen the AI do this in level 3 ships(the ones after scouts). At least the 1 and only time so far I have done that level of ship. I am not sure why but they 3 of them opened the door and ran outside, shot a bit, then kinda ran back inside(the AI derped out a lot during that 'attack', letting me come out of it without so much as a scratch but it did make me go 'oh f..' for a moment) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 They used to run out and attack, but now they hunker down inside. I believe it has something to do with AI changes a couple builds back that "made" some aliens garrison the ship at all times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gijs-Jan Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Yeah, it was a decision that Defensive aliens stay inside the ship at all times. Which we'll probably revert now then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squigoth Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 Yeah, it was a decision that Defensive aliens stay inside the ship at all times. Which we'll probably revert now then That's good to hear. Thanks. Another thing I haven't seen is an alien on the second floor of a building... yet. But then I wasn't getting that far into the game when the version would change and wipe out my game saves. I've now figured out how to turn off automatic updates and I'm chugging along with this build (well the last one). I'm sure all the old XCOM players have stories about going nuts looking for that one last alien hold out hiding in some remote room or corner of a building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Another thing I haven't seen is an alien on the second floor of a building... yet.Another known problem. They generally aren't in love with buildings much in general, but I don't think the AI can handle upper floors at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gijs-Jan Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 The AI can handle them; there just wasn't any incentive. The next release will have a weight for this preference in aiprops.xml Hint: The latest build brought a host of tweakable properties for the AI; per race and per rank. You can find it in aiprops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 The AI can handle them; there just wasn't any incentive.The next release will have a weight for this preference in aiprops.xml Hint: The latest build brought a host of tweakable properties for the AI; per race and per rank. You can find it in aiprops. So buildings don't appear to the aliens as good defensive positions unless you tell them they are? I would think the aliens would love cement building because they are like little forts. Does it calculate on the fly how good a location is or are all the tile "pre-set" with a desirability rating? If it's on the fly I'm kind of curious about how aliens determine where a "good spot" is in general? Is a weighting based on field of vision, toughness of available cover, staying close to other aliens, etc...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gijs-Jan Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 So buildings don't appear to the aliens as good defensive positions unless you tell them they are? I would think the aliens would love cement building because they are like little forts. Does it calculate on the fly how good a location is or are all the tile "pre-set" with a desirability rating? If it's on the fly I'm kind of curious about how aliens determine where a "good spot" is in general? Is a weighting based on field of vision, toughness of available cover, staying close to other aliens, etc...? It's calculated on the fly, each tile evaluated according to several aspects (which are calculated; so the AI will work with any maps contributed through mods without needing annotations). I will make a post detailing all the aspects; for now there's an explanation of all the different weights in aiprops.xml (in the assets folder ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 It's calculated on the fly, each tile evaluated according to several aspects (which are calculated; so the AI will work with any maps contributed through mods without needing annotations). I will make a post detailing all the aspects; for now there's an explanation of all the different weights in aiprops.xml (in the assets folder ) Well, I'll have a look. Sounds interesting. Thanks for the info. BTW, are many AI changes still planned? At one point giving the aliens some ability to use a basic fire and manuever cooperative tactics was discussed. (One group fires and covers while another group tries to get close and get the enemy in a cross fire.) I don't think they can do that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Bee Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but this is still an issue isn't it? I'm still in the beginning of the game, but haven't encountered any aliens opening a door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefsbrian Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Not from my experience. V1.03 I've actually adopted a "Explode the door" Policy because of aliens darting in and out to shoot at my guys who are stacking, friendly fire became a nasty issue in the cross and the option to disable using stored TU doesn't seem to work. Now I stack everyone around the edges of the door side, and the MG pours into the opening until I've whittled down opposition, then I make a clear sweep of the first room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Bee Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Not from my experience. V1.03 I've actually adopted a "Explode the door" Policy because of aliens darting in and out to shoot at my guys who are stacking, friendly fire became a nasty issue in the cross and the option to disable using stored TU doesn't seem to work. Now I stack everyone around the edges of the door side, and the MG pours into the opening until I've whittled down opposition, then I make a clear sweep of the first room. Nice, I guess i've just not encountered this behaviour yet Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Sebillians are the most notorious for it, as they have the most aggressive settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 It happens, more on higher difficulties than normal though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpelectric Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I've had them open UFO doors (usually sebs) and found a few on the upper floors of buildings, but I'd like to see both instances occur more often. Gonna go look at aiprops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishguy117 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I've had ceasians pull out the old "Strap a grenade to the least popular guy in the platoon and throw him at the enemy" tactic on me in the middle of my breach a few times too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betuor Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I think a lot of it comes down to the ai not always acting the same, which is a good thing, but you don't always see it do all the different things it can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kordanor Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I had the impression multiple times that the AI is cheating in a way that they know more than they should: Example: If you position your troops in safe distance to the door and observe it for multiple turns nothing happens. But if you move them closer, they start running to you and attack as if they already knew you became good targets. The same goes for teleporters. Secure a teleporter from a landing ship in a safe distance, nothing happens. But if you are standing right there someone ports down and shoots you in the head. When I used to bring a vehicle with me, I kinda exploited that behaviour a couple of times by giving them the vehicle as bait: Moved the vehicle to the ship door (corvettes) and lured them out of their corners as they wanted to shoot at it. After that I moved the vehicle away and shot them down. Of course these can just be accidents. But it would be really interesting if the AI is “all knowing” in this game or if each unit acts for itself with limited knowledge of the situation. In Jagged Alliance 2 for example each unit was acting for itself but of course communicated with other units. But in difference to Xenonauts JA2 has noises. So moving or shooting outside of the door can be heard by the guys on the other side of the door (and the AI was quite exploitable by using noises to your advantage). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaultdweller Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Example: If you position your troops in safe distance to the door and observe it for multiple turns nothing happens.But if you move them closer, they start running to you and attack as if they already knew you became good targets. I am sure that is not the case, or at least it wasn't in V22. On at least a few occasions, there were aliens popping out of the UFO when I didn't have troops in close proximity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I am sure that is not the case, or at least it wasn't in V22. On at least a few occasions, there were aliens popping out of the UFO when I didn't have troops in close proximity. AI seems to cheat a bit when it comes to engagements. I noticed that they decide to move forward or move back and hide depending on the distance of my soldiers, but there is no way they can see their full movement. As for UFO breaching. It seems they pop out at random. They sometimes go out when full team is nearby and sometimes when there is 1 or 2. ALthough each time they pop out, they have good chances on pot shots / insta kills, as if they knew exact position of troops before hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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