Combat GUI Update V2

[Chris]

This is the update for the new GUI design, taking some of the feedback into account from the previous thread here. Unless there's anything dreadfully wrong with it, we'll probably implement it relatively soon and then start working on the aesthetics of it once the functionality is confirmed to work well.

The major changes are as follows:

- Grenade quickthrow slot: this allows you to throw a grenade from your inventory without opening the inventory screen. This throw costs the normal throw APs, plus an additional 12APs if the soldier does not have an empty hand.

- Reload quickslot: this allows you to reload the currently equipped weapon with a single click. The number in the right-hand corner shows the number of clips available.

- Squad Stat Bars - the HP, AP and morale is shown for the entire squad along the top of the GUI. If a unit is killed, their bars sink down into the GUI. On mouseover a mini-portrait pops up above the bars to let you more quickly identify the right soldier in the squad.

- Camera Control - the element on the right near the End Turn button is the camera level control. The white bars show the current display level selected, in this screenshot at 2.

- General Reshuffle - a bunch of the elements have been moved around. Most notably, the inventory, crouch (missing from the previous GUI) and stats have all been consolidated into a bar on the Soldier Information panel.

There are three screenshots here:

These show the UI with the three variations on the combat window (the grenade one is just a rough approximation at the moment). Essentially the first two are displayed depending on whether a one or two handed weapon is equipped, whereas the final one is displayed once you right-click on the grenade fast-throw box. It displays all the grenades in the soldier's inventory and details on the throw cost.

Personally I think this UI should work well - it's got a lot of information on it but it's not actually that cluttered and doesn't take up too much space. Comments welcome.

[Merlon]

This looks great, but since you asked, here are some thoughts:

About the reload quickslot. Would this also allow for a selectionbox like the grenade one? That would allow you to have different ammotypes with rapid switching.

Stats button: You could potentially combine this with the portrait so that clicking (or hovering over) the portrait brings up the stats.

The end turn button is a bit close to the soldier 15+16 selectors. Accidents may happen. The traditional turnbased bottom-right corner might be a better place. On the other hand this would split the UI into separate parts.

Squad statbar: Do we need the hotkey-number of the squadmembers displayed? The reason I'm asking is that a numerical AP display may be equally useful in that location. I feel the bar doesn't tell the whole story as it's based on the individual soldier how many APs that actually make, so a number may help in picking the next soldier to control or deciding to end the turn.

The AP/HP/Morale bars: I'm not sure we actually need the numbers on the HP and morale bar, just the AP number is critical. With this in mind you could compress the UI a bit if you wanted, for instance by turning the bars vertical with the AP number on top/bottom (or perhaps portrait-frame bottom left?). The exact HP and morale should probably still be available on mouseover though. Less numbers to sift through would make it easier to keep tabs on the only one we can actively manage. (AP)

[Amiga4ever]

For me is perfect enough I can't wait to try it.

[Jean-Luc]

Portraits not sticking out on top of the UI really helps I think. From a purely aesthetic point of view I'd prefer it if the stat bars became greyed out instead of sinking down to avoid the UI looking almost like castle crenelations after several deaths.

Like so:

Just to preserve the visual unity and consistency and what not.

What about the rocket launcher? Afaik it is the only weapon with multiple ammo types. Will the quick button only reload rockets of the same type as previous or will there be a sub menu like that of the grenades?

All in all the UI's ready to go I'd say.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Jean-Luc

[Bibidibop]

Hopefully the image is self explanatory. But the green in the height meter is the ground level, in case there are levels with sub levels.

[Gauddlike]

Looks nicer now. There are a few things I would still change though given time.

I would remove the stats button completely and free that space up for something else.

The stats would probably still be visible in the inventory screen I imagine so can already be accessed with a single click.

If not then I would also have them appear on mouseover on the portrait.

I still feel the AP reserve takes up way too much space and is in the wrong place.

It looks out of place over on its own away from anything else you may want to click.

The names need to go as well, they don't mean anything apart from as a reference to x-com firing modes which do not exist in Xenonauts.

Reloading doesn't need a big UI button to itself.

I would have a button similar to the single/burst select buttons.

It could be placed beside the ammo count on the weapon pane or beside (but a little away from) the fire mode selectors.

That would be close enough to fit on the single hand section but with a gap big enough so it is not mistaken for another fire mode.

[iamkyon]

I concur with all of Gauddlike's criticisms.

How about having the colour of a unit's number (as displayed in the portait row) reflect its status? Golden yellow for units that have all action points intact, and grey for ones that have used up theirs. A red hue would stand for "alien in sight".

By the way, how do vehicles fit into all of this?

Edited January 27, 2012 by iamkyon

[Gauddlike]

Not criticisms, just suggestions for change.

I am still curious about vehicles.

If you cant have the full 16 troops and still have vehicles then maybe they could just be a double length bar similar to the troop ones.

Otherwise they will need a new section.

[anotherdevil]

Chris, is there a reason you don't want to use the whole of the bottom of the screen for the GUI?

Other than the other suggestions others have raised, many I think could add some slight improvement to the GUI, might I suggest one more?

Make the area with the bars (AP, health and bravery) wider, so that the bars can be longer. Right now, I don't know, it just looks squashed

Otherwise, some very nice improvements! =]

[Wolfy]

Looks great, very simple but very informative!

[Gauddlike]

I think it is a scaling issue with using the whole bottom of the screen.

Anything smaller than the resolution it is designed in and the buttons could end up being too small to click on.

[iamkyon]

Perhaps "criticisms" was a tad too strong a term. We're in agreement, anyhow.

A couple of more things: Bibidibop's minor modifications are well thought-out, in my opinion. It'd be nifty if the total AP cost of tossing a grenade was highlighted. Will the player be able to reshuffle individual unit panels?

Edited January 27, 2012 by iamkyon

[Beagle]

Squad statbar: Do we need the hotkey-number of the squadmembers displayed?

Yes, absoloutely. Without squad numbers all those tiny little bars would become a giant mess indistinguishable from each other except for the player remembering the vague position of the bar he wants.

I like your idea of the numbers at a glance though. Perhaps when you mosue over a mini-bar, the bars become numbers? If you can't figure out a good way to fit all three in their respective colours due to space the bar could just become a big green AP number so you could mouse over people for that, if that's deemed important enough.

It'd also be nice to be able to turn on portraits permanently with a right click or whatever, if the player wants to have all or certain portraits up all the time for whatever reason.

As for you suggesting we take out the numbers on the HP and morale bar - I'd really prefer we didn't, you can argue they're less important but I like the feeling of having those exact numbers there and I would miss them. I do agree with you about the End Turn button being quite possibly misclicked when going for the last few squadmates, but I don't think a big UI redesign is necessary to fix that, just swap the End Turn and Map buttons there and you're bringing up the map on a misclick at worst.

I like everything else. The grenade button is a nice band-aid on the whole I-only-have-one-hand-when-I'm-using-a-rifle thingy, but the AP penalty for it is kind of harsh and I'm still not sure why we don't let people with rifles just hold it with one hand while they grab a grenade/throw a magazine/insert basic and incredibly useful hand-related maneuver here. I don't see a problem with having the descriptive names for the different types of shots and think it both looks good and will help out new players trying to remember the different shots immensely.

Finally, Chris, if anyone convinces you to use all of the bottom of the screen, I could see a little box minimap fitting in nicely.

[Bibidibop]

I know what should replace the stats button, the map button. The map being right below the End Turn key is dangerous.

Also, ignore my example of the off center portrait. It's bad, it imbalances the interface. The portrait needs to be in the middle to balance the left and right ends which appear heavier than the rest of the interface. It would be different if those big things were shifted to one side.

[BlackObsidian]

I really like this, big improvement over the (already pretty good) interface. My two cents:

1. Swap the end turn and map buttons to reduce the chance of hitting end turn when trying to click on the camera controls or soldier 15/16.

2. I like the big clear AP reserve selector, but will this now be consistent for each soldier between turns? I don't use it at the moment as you have to reset it each turn.

3. Maybe instead of the thumbnail bars sinking into the GUI or being greyed out you get a very clear red X through them when dead and maybe a grey X when just unconscious. This stops the 'castle' look suggested above but still makes it very obvious when soliders are unavailable. Also, just having health and AP on these bars would be fine as they are far more important than morale for quickly scanning your squad.

4. If you only take say 7 soldiers on a mission, will the 1-7 thumbnails be centred or still aligned with the left hand side like they are in the image? I think they should be centred or it will look lopsided.

5. Is the map going to be implemented in the next build?

6. Grenade quick throw = awesome

[Aaron]

Looks good generally, though I think the icons in the AP reserve section are going to mislead people - an icon with 3 crosshairs immediately makes me think I would be reserving three individual shots. I know there are labels next to them, but that just makes the icons unnecessary too. My suggestion would be to just do away with the icons.

Also I would recommend ordering the reserve options in terms of AP cost, it's rather counter intuitive to have a sliding scale where things are not in order.

Finally, I mentioned this in another thread but I think this AP reserve area really needs a "lock" toggle switch so you can change the reserve behavior between allowing/disallowing the player to use their reserved points during their turn. The current behviour breaks the way people like myself used AP reserve in XCOM, which was to ensure I had enough AP to fire after a move during my turn.

Also as mentioned above the AP reserve setting really needs to be saved for each soldier between turns, but I understand this is the intention and it just hasn't been implemented yet?

Here's a little mockup with all my suggestions, in locked and unlocked mode:

[Gauddlike]

I agree on the icons being misleading.

I still feel the names are misleading as well though.

The game has single shot and burst fire modes so what exactly would snap, normal and aimed be in relation to that?

Technically "snap" is a normal shot while "normal" is aimed and "aimed" is another step above that.

They are more like normal, aimed and precise shots.

If you are familiar with x-com terminology then it is clearer, not all players will be though.

The suggestion to use the same aim icon as you would see while actually shooting removes the need for the names as well as the small icons.

Placed where the names are currently it would cycle through these (using the order mechanicus suggested).

That would be:

0 Grey for no reserve.

1 Normal crosshair.

2 One level of aim.

3 Burst crosshair.

4 Second level of aim.

Exactly as you would see on an enemy as you select your shots.

*edit* picture is clearer on a better background but it's the best I can manage with paint.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Gauddlike
Explanation

[Chris]

I've yet to be convinced to change the AP Reserve; I think the current system will work fine. The idea is that it will be persistent from turn to turn for each individual soldier, but each soldier has their own individual AP Reserve setting.

I've sent the detailed implementation instructions to the coder so he can get cracking, and the only thing I've changed is swapping the map and end turn buttons around as you guys are right about the danger of misclicks. Unfortunately, the map won't be implemented in the next build. I'm still not sure exactly how we're going to do it.

It is possible for the AP we can have a setting in the options allowing a soldier to use reserved APs to fire during their turn, but I don't want it cluttering up the GUI. Remind me during beta.

[Gauddlike]

I agree it will work, I just think it will be a lot less clear to someone who doesn't remember the terms from x-com.

Risking confusing players as to how AP reserve works is not great but it will definitely function.

[TheTuninator]

I agree it will work, I just think it will be a lot less clear to someone who doesn't remember the terms from x-com.

Risking confusing players as to how AP reserve works is not great but it will definitely function.

Isn't that what tutorials are for, though? If you don't know what stuff means, you play the tutorial.

[Gauddlike]

You could call the shotgun a boomstick on some screens and a pellet launcher on others and use a tutorial to explain they are all the same thing.

A tutorial would be one way to explain misleading terms but not an excuse to use them in the first place

That is always assuming a tutorial gets added at all.

*edit* was meant to sound more jokey, didn't manage it though.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Gauddlike

[Bibidibop]

I've yet to be convinced to change the AP Reserve; I think the current system will work fine. The idea is that it will be persistent from turn to turn for each individual soldier, but each soldier has their own individual AP Reserve setting.

I've sent the detailed implementation instructions to the coder so he can get cracking, and the only thing I've changed is swapping the map and end turn buttons around as you guys are right about the danger of misclicks. Unfortunately, the map won't be implemented in the next build. I'm still not sure exactly how we're going to do it.

It is possible for the AP we can have a setting in the options allowing a soldier to use reserved APs to fire during their turn, but I don't want it cluttering up the GUI. Remind me during beta.

The reserve order makes sense from the perspective that you have the normal aim types grouped, then the odd ball (burst) at the end. Ordering it by AP makes sense in purely numeric terms.

I think the real criteria is, will players chose purely based on cost, or will they chose on fire type? If it's purely cost driving players, then burst should be second from last, but if burst is often skipped over for the better accuracy, despite higher AP cost, then putting burst last due to its unique nature makes sense.

Isn't that what tutorials are for, though? If you don't know what stuff means, you play the tutorial.

I greatly dislike tutorials. They delay getting into the proper game, and make the gameplay dull. I believe tutorials also go against a unique ability possessed by video games, the ability to teach by action, through carefully crafted level design. Certain things do need to be told to a player's face, instead of using subtly, such as which mouse and keyboard buttons will be used, and what they do (if you are using more than WASD) unlike with console controllers which have very limited buttons. With a controller you can trial and error your way into knowledge of control very quickly.

[anotherdevil]

I was thinking about the AP reserve thing, and I was wondering if anyone could be bothered making a mock up that looks like the shot selector (or is it the safety switch) on a rifle etc. That might be a simple, but less linear style, that might break up the very straight look of lots of the GUI elements at the moment.

This thing (but on a 90 degree angle most likely, and less plastic looking):

Edited January 29, 2012 by anotherdevil

[plucx]

Anyway, for the two hand weapon there are several point that I needs to talk about:

I played X-Com since it came out, never quite stopped playing it. As you guys, i know about he game, quirks, history, bugs, exploits and i still keep learning.

1st-) Pistols in x-Com are not totally useless. They are usefull in the beginning, mid game (laser, infinite ammo!) and are a must for grenadier. Flame me all you want, i played this game for a lot of time, i know pistols are useful used in conjunction with other things.

Pistols does less damage than rifle per shot, but the AP cost is less and several game simulator made with x-com util crew showed that the damage output was similar but not the range. Back in 2000, it was a big deal and a hot topic. I always had one or two guys with grenades and pistols for ufo entry. Can't miss with a grenade! Also, make sense to have a primed grenade in one hand, throw it, fire a shot or two then BOOM, they are dead, for sure!

Now, Why use a pistol? No free hands??? Ill go with the shotgun!

In UFO, if you had a Two hand weapon and something in the "off hand" your accuracy was lowered. Try it.

Why a secondary item in the other hand?

To draw out nades, med pack, Hi-Explosive, rocket ammo ...

How do you think a squad carry enough missile to destroy 5 tanks with one laucher? Well the missiles are spread amongs the team members and when the demo guy is getting low, the other guys get the rocket out and throw it to their buddy.

Let say i'm a support weapon in the squad (Close combat, machine guns, sniper) I might want a quick acces to another weapon that is fast to draw. Thats how the other hand is used for, pick up stuff on the ground. Did you fire rocket laucher? It's a boon when a buddy is giving you a missile to load the thing or to pick it from the ground (risky beacause of dirt, but it's not that slow btwm, especially for top shape guys)! Thats why snipers and demo guys carry pistols in holsters, easy acces weapon that are tactically more adept at the job. That is why heavy weapon ammo is spread amongs the team members. It's basic tactical gear in any nato setup.

Now, the empty hand for the pistol, I kept it empty! When i needed a grenade, I took it in the empty hand, armed it, threw it. The countdown start when the grenade is released (like real life grenade) or kept it for the next round start. What happends if I get shot with an armed grenade or got berzerk, well I blew up !! Sucks to be me, i took the risk of doing that with the benefit of having more AP next round. Also, since it's a time delay grenade, I could chain up a grenade. Ie : I threw the armed grenade to a buddy, he picked it up (empty hand), then threw it to the other guy wich has just enought AP to throw a grenade to the alien face! I think it's a BASIC utility in X-com to pick stuff and throw it, really one of the most usefull stuff in the game. Try it, have your rearmost guys prepare stuff like rearming a launcher then throw it to another one in point with a better firing lane. Also, I sometimes got carried over and did a chain with stunned aliens, get them out of the ship, stacked them and blew them out with a rookie wich then got the kills (exploited a little but sick fun).

I always used pistol to some extend just for that. Trowing stuff (weapon, dead bodies, ect). Not every member got one, but at least one or two have one, at all time.

Dead bodies you say? Yes ...

Why? When you had to retreat from a mission going bad, to cut your losses you could put stuff on the ground of the transport and bring it out of the mission! Soooo, that really hard mission that you just retreated from just got you a plasma rifle, two elerium and why not bring back the bodies of your friends? Even if they are stunned they might like not being left behind? Might not have enought space in your backpack, but you got the carry weight for itm and it's way easier to carry a body in your arm than in a back sac ... right? It's not that hard to carry a guy on your back while keeping your rifle slung on your shoulder. Just watch for the guy eye. You are slow, you Puff like rocky but you can lift at least your weight that way if not more.

Yeah, so what about carrying a gun in one hand and a body in the other? Ever heard of a sling. It's a basic piece of gear that all weapons have and it is the trade mark of any experienced rifleman. May it be machine gun (require a little training for show-off stuff) rifle of launcher, they all have it. it's a basic pice of gear designed to help carry the damn thing. You dont want a rifle in your back pack, you want to have it slung on you elbows or in our hands. It's your new found love, like it or not! ! Talk to any experienced Army troop, he can talk to you a long time about slings and how they can be configured. How Anal staff can be about how to use it and fix it. You could all be surprised how fast a m-139 machine gunner can go from back sling to shoulder position, under 2 sec average and firing.

Let say you pick up a friend wich is badly wounded (fireman technique, google it ), you put the gun on your elbow and pick him up! You can fire also (fun to do, chuck norris style) from the hip but dont expect to hit something.

Now, close combat? Well yes, i loved close combat! Early or end game, just loved it! Especially tftd, was a must with crabmen. Anyway, close combat AKA stun(t) man was selected for it's hi AP score. Always used the empty hand to throw grenades or to use a stun launcher. Might seem dumb, but i you stunned yourself and 3 other guys, it's well worth it.

Alternate weapon acces (holster or empty hand) represent the equipment configuration for a team member. As such, if I am a rifle man with medic duty in the squad. I am expected to have some kind of quick acces to my gear. Usually a smaller weapon that can be holstered on the fly and belt pouch, droppable med pack, ect.

As a Sniper, I want a quick acces to a smaller secondary weapon wich is faster to shoot and does not tunnel my sight like a sniper rifle.

As a heavy weapon, i want to have a weapon with faster response, non AOE damage to enter buildings.

Holsters were not present in the X-Com game, but might have been balanced with the belt space (could put pistol there) and having extra space on the legs (hips pouch like one in combat gear) and elbow pouch (grenade and ammo pouch on standard webbing, WW2 stuff). These are usefull for it's quick access in AP point for things like grenades, flare, ammo. I used these legs pouch a lot as the mag holster or the grenade hook on the old webbing. There is nothing weird to throw a grenade while holding a two had weapons btw. This argument is vain and I used two had weapon with smokes, nades and well, it require some prep but it's the way you what to do it. In a battle field condition, you what the ability to keep your rifle in either one handed locked sling stance and throw a grenade wich pin is hooked to the webbing or put the gun on your shoulder (sling) and do the grenade drill as intended since ww2.

NEVER will you see a soldier drop his gun ... NEVER EVER EVER!! If it's done it's for lauchers or a rare case scenario, not the other way around.

Now, if you look at the belt of the X-COM soldier, the pistol used a space of 2 square vertical. In your game, the pistol use 6 square rectangle in horizontal position.

A middle ground might be the grenade button idea (like it) wich let you pick up a grenade from inventory and throw it. This might work very well as a work around but might stop you to pick up a item from the ground and throw it. Why not allow to pick up an item in the inventory/ground then throw it.

Call it the throw button. It is a vital thing in X-Com when you consider all the options. You get low on ammo, a buddy throw you his gun. You pick it up, fire it (nice action movie stuff) or the tech guy in the team arm the Hi-explosive for you, give it to you, then you walk 5 ft, throw the grenade , get back, BOOM. All the stuff that can be combined this way is pretty varied if you think about it. All the looted weapons, nades, medic bags, looted elerium, stunned civilians (yes, you don't what them to blow right?). What about destroyable walls? Well combine this with that kind of team cooperation and you can get a impressive result in a few turn.

And also, why on earth does the newbie argument get any grounds? You are not targetting the newbie audience, do you? If yes, please by all means do a Justin Bieber game! If not, let the player get a clue that having two machines guns is not a good idea. But let them do it if they whant, what do you loose? You won't have to code all the items int he game. Just have to drop the Hit % so much than anything other than carryng stuff in both hand is not worth it.

X-Com like many classics was ruthless. It let you die without regrets. It let you do the wrong stuff and you learned from it. Even today i'm getting new clues and idead to play the game. I will never master it, since there is so many way to play it! But X-Com also gave you freedom, like no game ever did before.

[anotherdevil]

Now that is a wall of text. For those who don't want to read it through, he has basically started up the 'why hold a rifle in two hands' argument again.

I think, I got lost about halfway down... =p