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Aaron

V20 Experimental Build 7 Available!

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The monthly cost for Condors should be at most $75k, if it costs as much as a new one then I could very well scrap all of them before the end of the month and use the money saved to build something better. Actually, I did, and it feels cheap.

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I played for a couple hours last night and I have to say I'm IMPRESSED. The changes you've made look great. I have to play some more before I post any balance opinions. I will say that expanding to two bases right away was a total fail for me. I was too cash starved and had to quit. I'll try again tonight with only one base. Also, I notice that the UFO ATA shots travel much quicker now and it is hard to pause and "dodge" with the Condor. IMO, you shouldn't have to have super reactions to use the dodge function effectively. Xeno is not a twitch game.

Yeah I to have a bag on about the air combat. It's gone from new and inventive to a twitch-lets-mash-keys console port. :)

Don't like I'm afraid. Loving the rest of the game so far though.

Edited by Moonie

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The Soldier placement panel in the dropship page still doesn t show what each soldiers are carrying, so placement of your troop is a pain. In the airfight the FUEL gauge doesn t select the plane is you click it. No gain of relation in succefully cleaningan area of Aliens. Planes that never crashes and take more times to be repaired than to buy another, and to complement it, its impossible to discard the planes and buy a new one. Bases that cost the same prices all around the world...

I stopped there, micromanagement, incomplete interface and i hope only temporary awfull gamewise decisions.

Waiting for next iteration.

Edited by Mordobb

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The monthly cost for Condors should be at most $75k, if it costs as much as a new one then I could very well scrap all of them before the end of the month and use the money saved to build something better. Actually, I did, and it feels cheap.

But is this not as the developers intend? At some point, players should be scrapping their condors for advanced craft. The end of the month would be the most logical time to do so.

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I've never seen what a three leg dog chasing a rabbit looks like, but I do now after trying to down scouts and other small alien craft with condors. Can we get different options or what not. Like Tomcats or something like that.

Another question I have ..Why or how can my condors or any other craft fly half way around the world yet can't go more than 30secs in a dog fight and burn 20% fuel? I understand manuevering will increase fuel, but how much it burns in close combat without maneuvering is a little odd. Can we get an in flight refueling for conventional aircraft?

Besides those things I think this is a really nice build and I can't wait to see how some of the other stuff turns out.

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i think this build sucks upgrading the base plus some scientists and no planes at 1.3 mil in first month. 2 condors cant kill a scout 1 condor loses against a lgt scout 2/3 of the time and you wont us to pay 200k for a mig which was useless before and as only had a speed upgrade (or more noticeable as condors have droped) Condor speed is a joke Mr myagi with a parachute and chop sticks would have an easier time catching a UFO

if this is the last build i will tell people not to waste their cash on it

PS look at the picture of the F17 condor how many missiles does it have

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So that was interesting, flash banged a sebillian non combatant, and everything in 10 tiles blew up like a propane tank went off. 2 snipers and 2 sebillians were downed. nothing but a building, hay stacks, and those water tubs in the area.

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So that was interesting, flash banged a sebillian non combatant, and everything in 10 tiles blew up like a propane tank went off. 2 snipers and 2 sebillians were downed. nothing but a building, hay stacks, and those water tubs in the area.
I filed a bug report on this. You might want to go into the Experimental Bug Section and second my report. I think what is happening is the flashbangs are detonating the grenades the aliens are carrying. Great for the Xenonauts unless you happen to be too close!

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i've been playing the new build today and after 3 months it seems that not a single country likes me enough to increase my funding and everything costs more than i can afford, to top that i can't seem to keep up with the speed at which the aliens advance at, i'm missing the reward for doing the ground missions and it seems like the game has shifted its focus to air combat now.

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Yeah, we'll be doing some more tweaking to the air combat balance in the next build. It's too difficult at the moment.

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has the idea of more starting condors, and reduced condor maintenance been discussed to balance the now harder initial air combat?

I've kind of been wondering why such an elite force only starts with 2 jets anyway. maybe have the first base start with 4 or 5 condors, you're using our current tech level with no alien tech, so you're having to throw a small squadron of craft at the initial ufos to down them which makes sense the ufos are far superior to anything man has made at this point, even condors. If you cut the maintenance cost of condors, or boost initial funding by the amount 2 or 3 more hangers+condors costs that could be balanced out.

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If aliens are going to start burning up their own ammo, an option to toggle off overwatch would be useful. Might need to conserve alien ammo. Also, the machine gun is still a sloppy weapon (another reason not to have default overwatch).

----

Is v20 stable still anticipated to be released by Christmas?

Edited by screeg

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I don’t think that having more condors, or giving our jets more missiles is the way we want to solve this.

The Xenopedia states, that the alien crafts are not suited well for flying in an atmosphere so, although having a much more powerful propulsion, they should be sluggish and have problem maneuvering, while terrestrial crafts should catch up or even outrun UFOs with ease. Outmaneuvering should be the standard tactic but as of now there is little difference between turning speed among most starting crafts, and pretty much all UFO’s are faster than jet planes.

IMHO alien crafts should have very powerful weapons able to shoot down jets in one or two hits, and armour able to withstand a whole barrage of terrestrial weaponry, but the Xenonauts’ pilots should be able to avoid that weaponry with relative ease and hit the UFOs in a weak spot (like the engine, or from the flank).

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I am glad to hear that air combat is to get some love. It's my only spoiler in what up to now is a bloody good game. I also love how the game is so mod-able, this should keep it alive for centuries. :D

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Yeah, we'll be doing some more tweaking to the air combat balance in the next build. It's too difficult at the moment.

Do you want the Air-Combat to the have the same "play some encounters, auto-resolve the rest" progression you want for the ground combat? If so:

Have every Air-Encounter-Situation start off with a mediocre, fairly random auto-resolve (that's more or less the current one right?) - but if the player manually plays it, and plays it perfectly (or very well - no damage taken, no planes lost) that specific encounter accrues points (possibly varying amounts based on performance).

Once the player has manually completed that specific encounter perfectly a few times (hit a certain points threshold) the autoresolve button gets replaced with a "perfect autoresolve" button, which then simulates the perfect outcome the player has proven is repeatedly possible with manual control.

For example, the classic 2-Condor vs 1-Light-Scout encounter. Standard autoresolve will probably lose 1 condor but win. After 3 manual combat perfect wins (easily done when played manually), any further autoresolving of that specific (2-Condor vs 1 light-scout) encounter will assume perfect outcome.

That way you preserve the incentive for manually fighting at least every new situation a few times, but prevent the endless streams of manual air-combats because the autoresolve simply isn't going to be as good as a player.

Essentially it means air-combat would progress in the same fashion ground combat does: Fight every new situation a few times manually (to get items, tech - and autoresolve progress) then switch to automating it before it becomes tedious.

As a bonus, it fits the fluff too - as encounters are solved perfectly you essentially simulate the Xenonauts air-wing developing better tactics for routine situations.

As an aside, the High Speed Interceptor is incredibly bad for the price (it really needs at least 2 light-missile hardpoints in addition to the 2 heavy mounts - or the ability to mount 2xLights on the Heavy Mounts).

And basic Condors being slower than UFOs on the Strategic screen is incredibly bad design, because there's no gameplay to it - it's random chance on the UFO blundering into your Condors, which is not fun. Plus it breaks the "Tail until over Land" button, because the UFO will just fly away out of range the moment you press it.

But those are distinct issues from the manual-combat-vs-autoresolve thing.

Edited by DatonKallandor

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Once the player has manually completed that specific encounter perfectly a few times (hit a certain points threshold) the autoresolve button gets replaced with a "perfect autoresolve" button, which then simulates the perfect outcome the player has proven is repeatedly possible with manual control.

Something similar to this sounds pretty good to me. I like it!

As an aside, the High Speed Interceptor is incredibly bad for the price (it really needs at least 2 light-missile hardpoints in addition to the 2 heavy mounts - or the ability to mount 2xLights on the Heavy Mounts).

You can mount light missiles on the heavy mounts. Or do you mean 2 light missiles for each heavy mount? Yes, maybe you do...

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Yeah a double-light-missile for a heavy mount.

Hell even the classic Air-to-Air rockets could be an interesting thing to put in there. You could build sort of a flanking fighter if light mounts could mount A2A rockets.

It wouldn't have the safety long-range punch of a missile, but having what's essentially bigger and nastier autocannon style weapons (unguided, small arc - but a lot more ammo than the single-shot missiles) in the wing-mounts - bad news for the UFO if you can get that fighter behind it.

Plus those really fit the time-frame. Cold War is exactly when people thought unguided rockets would be useful tools for intercepting bombers. Course it didn't work (at all!) in reality, but hey apply some Xenonauts funding and ingenuity to it...

Edited by DatonKallandor

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This (perfect resolve air combat) sounds like a brilliant suggestion! Yes please. While ground combat could theoretically remain fresh for a long time thanks to the variety of terrain and aliens, air combat definitely does not.

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The intention is that the air combat auto-resolve should be able to play the air combat as well as the average player - it is just a bit underpowered at the moment. See how it is in the next build, hopefully it'll be improved somewhat.

The perfect auto-resolve idea is interesting but I don't think it'll be needed if we get our existing system working as intended.

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I think you'll run into the fun-as-a-game-balance issue again. As long as manually playing every air-combat is optimal (better than autoresolve), people will do it, even if it isn't fun. The same problem you've illustrated (and solved) with the ground combat airstrike mechanic.

Edited by DatonKallandor

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I'd say that the aliens are a tad bit too proficient with grenades now. Combined with an almost precognitive ability to know wether there's two or more targets within the grenade's range, they've been lobbing grenades from the very edge of their visual range at targets they haven't even seen from behind walls. It's been worst in alien bases where I've accidentally left a door open with my units standing behind the walls to the sides of the door, only to get some of the aliens approach and throw a grenade at their feet.

I'm currently trying to resolve an issue with a certain civilian always moving next to my units and causing a certain harridan to invariably throw in a grenade, killing any one of my units next to that civilian they've seen, despite the aliens not being able to tell that I have a soldier behind a box container. At least they sure as heck shouldn't be able to, yet.

Edit: An alien just committed suicide as I moved my units behind the same cover that the alien was using. Thought it might've been suppressed enough, but clearly it had enough time units to throw a grenade at its own feet pretty much. Maybe it decided that 3 kills justifies suicide :P

I'd agree that improving the chances of autoresolved air combat by doing it without losses manually would be a great addition. As it stands now, it's been a bit of a hit an miss, where I've lost to even scout crafts with corsairs equipped with plasma explosives and laser gatlings at times, despite being able to kill them manually without even getting hit.

Edit2: Wraiths most certainly shouldn't be able to teleport and directly toss grenades or use heavy weapons with explosive results of guts splattered over the walls. I've lost far too many soldiers to that already, as there is no defense aside from constantly hiding in smoke, where you can't attack back either.

Edited by Miyuki

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I'm currently trying to resolve an issue with a certain civilian always moving next to my units and causing a certain harridan to invariably throw in a grenade, killing any one of my units next to that civilian they've seen, despite the aliens not being able to tell that I have a soldier behind a box container. At least they sure as heck shouldn't be able to, yet.

Well, I guess I have to dumb it down a bit then :). The point is that the AI also uses quite some statistics to determine where you *might* be. Seeing as how an AI is sometimes spread across the entire map (especially with alien base, terror missions and the like), it has quite some information on where your squad *isn't*; and thus, also *is*.

Edit: An alien just committed suicide as I moved my units behind the same cover that the alien was using. Thought it might've been suppressed enough, but clearly it had enough time units to throw a grenade at its own feet pretty much. Maybe it decided that 3 kills justifies suicide :P

Yeah.. the AI doesn't really care that much if it kills itself, if the benefits are high enough. :)

(Roughly 2~3 to 1 ratios; depending also on how more valued your unit is (9 rookies ~= 1 Colonel)

Edit2: Wraiths most certainly shouldn't be able to teleport and directly toss grenades or use heavy weapons with explosive results of guts splattered over the walls. I've lost far too many soldiers to that already, as there is no defense aside from constantly hiding in smoke, where you can't attack back either.

This should be fixed soon; TUs should be spent when teleporting, and the AI shouldn't do the Veni-Vidi-Vici tactic with teleports anymore.

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Which specific parts?

Aliens throwing grenades up to 21 tiles away, the guaranteed negative ground combat score, the air battle being incredibly hard, the sheer difficulty with which there is not losing funding at a massive rate.

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