Hide and Seek ?

[Wrath_IX]

You know I've been in IT for 25 years and trust me the users take on something is all that matters. It's a BUG from their perspective and that's all that matters. They pay your salary. I don't give a rip if it's half implemented code, something someone left in, or the Charmed Ones cast a spell on your code, it's a bug when it doesn't work like they expect it to.

O.k. I get really annoyed when people throw down the "I'm an IT professional" card in these kinds of forums so could you please elaborate as to which part of the IT field you are in? because your statements have me questioning your understanding of SDLC

your statement about user expectations would only be relevant with a finished product rather than one that is in the beta stage

[StellarRat]

O.k. I get really annoyed when people throw down the "I'm an IT professional" card in these kinds of forums so could you please elaborate as to which part of the IT field you are in? because your statements have me questioning your understanding of SDLC

your statement about user expectations would only be relevant with a finished product rather than one that is in the beta stage

Software developer for about 15 years, mainframe operator, software testing, independent game dev, and I've done networking, database administration (Oracle and SQL Server), server admin, user support, desktop support, built PC from parts, software training, phone system admin, etc... Trust me, the users call everything that doesn't work like they expect to a bug OR not finished depending on how you explain it to them. I call it a bug because it's not right at all, it's totally illogical that an alien can "see" through the hull of a ship. I'm mostly thinking from the user perspective here. If you want to get really technical, it's either a logic error, design error, or unfinished code that needs to be completed/removed or test code that needs to be removed. Edited October 30, 2013 by StellarRat

[Selvhan]

I have the same bug : Aliens are hiding and rarely return fire. They completely ignore my vehicles. If I can avoid reaction fire, I can make a map with no shot fired from aliens. My guys are not armoured at all except 2 with the jackal.

I also never seen an alien enter or exit a spaceship. They seem to wait for you until you trigger them. The last build I played was v18 and if I remember correctly, I had a hard time in the 1st terror mission.

I'm currently playing v20 B1 at Veteran and the real difficulty is dealing with the alien spacecraft in the Geo map. Once on the battlefield, it's not hard as it use to be.

[Wrath_IX]

but as i am sure you are aware user misuse terms like bug, virus, hacking, does not make their context of it accurate.

and since the game is sort of between alpha and beta phase as evidenced by the current state of the game its clear that not every aspect of the programs intended code is in a functional state.

So rather than demanding they remove code which is part of the necessary framework for a feature not yet implemented because it annoys you; you should be focusing on doing the work of a beta tester and looking for actual bugs in which there is a defect with a component that actually has been implemented.

When the game gets towards the end of the beta phase and all features are actually implemented then if there is still a problem then by all means lets pick this issue again at that time. so till then I would suggest that we table the issue of AI using some unclarified mechanic to detect troops through walls and unreasonable obstructions till it becomes more relevant

[Wrath_IX]

I have the same bug : Aliens are hiding and rarely return fire. They completely ignore my vehicles. If I can avoid reaction fire, I can make a map with no shot fired from aliens. My guys are not armoured at all except 2 with the jackal.

I also never seen an alien enter or exit a spaceship. They seem to wait for you until you trigger them. The last build I played was v18 and if I remember correctly, I had a hard time in the 1st terror mission.

I'm currently playing v20 B1 at Veteran and the real difficulty is dealing with the alien spacecraft in the Geo map. Once on the battlefield, it's not hard as it use to be.

yeah I have noticed a sharp increase in the difficulty of air combat just from V18 to V19

in 18 you could easily down light scout and scouts without breaking a sweat with only your condors and the occasional foxtrot now it seems like I struggle in virtually every engagement if I don't throw 2 or 3 planes at each one. and that can be difficult because by October/November I was getting literally 3-5 UFO's at the same time of varying size and arrangement.

I also notice that all of the aircraft have been reduced to 2 hard-points only with the exception being interceptors which also have the cannon hard-point.

I went back and started comparing the various files and notice a bunch of issues

all the cannons and to a lesser extent the alien weapons got a substantial damage nerf and range nerf all of the missiles likewise got massive range nerf but gain a roughly 15% damage boost

unfortunately all of the alien craft got massive buffs to their HP ranging from 100% to 200% or more hp increase

The most notable example of this is the Scout which went from from 260 HP to a whopping 800

the only exception to this is the alien fighter line of craft which have a roughly 15-30% decrease in HP and slightly less effective weapons.

I did some number crunching with all these changes and found that the air combat has been stacked a little too one sided in the aliens favor. the math shows that as soon as corvettes appear you will need a full 3 fighter squadron with at least one of those fighters have heavy weapon mounts of to take them down. and if they have an escort it will be virtually impossible to bring them down since it will require 75-90% of the entire squadrons available ordinance (including cannon ammo if you do not have to highest possible aircraft weapons researched and produced) to bring it down. this gets even more complicated once you add the drop ship and higher vessels which all have the missile shield which ensures 33% of your missile ordinance will be destroyed before impact.

and again taking them down is only possible if they do not have an escort.

The air combat balance needs to be re-balanced badly

Edited October 30, 2013 by Wrath_IX

[Aaron]

Knock off the arguing about the definition of a bug.

I mean, honestly?

[Selvhan]

I don't think the air combat need a complete re-balance. What could potentially be change is the number of weapon human aircraft could carry.

I also like the fact that now you need to make a bombing run to destroy the corvette. Once destroy, the 2 fighter disappear anyway ( after the engagement ).

[StellarRat]

Knock off the arguing about the definition of a bug.

I mean, honestly?

Sorry. How about this? Will the aliens always facing the nearest human no matter what the LOS is "problem/exploit/issue" be fixed? Edited October 30, 2013 by StellarRat

[Wrath_IX]

that is true and I personally really enjoy a challenge. my issue is that it leaves little to no margin for error and a certainty that your going to get one or more aircraft knocked out for 72 hours due to the disparity of range issue.

What I would like to see is a little more of a potential for a fighting chance

The current issue as i see it is that the larger alien ships can literally circle strafe your fighters to death. so you are left with the missile/bombing run then bug out approach which is of limited use.

the issue is that aside from the alien fighters the other alien ships have too wide of firing arcs with too great a range. I have had a corvette when faced with 2 foxtrots tag the the first foxtrot with its cannon, then turn and and be able to tag the second before missiles took it out

I would like to see those cannon firing arc's narrowed an additional 5 degrees. likewise I would like to see all of the larger alien craft have a slight narrowing of their firing arcs so that with work it would be possible to get ahead to their turn enough for a fighter to potentially get behind them.

also would it be too much to ask for the anti missile weapon to have a minimum range? that way if your willing to get within their guns range you can fire missiles without the anti missile system shooting them down?

I think the issue might be in the RotationAcc stat. which if I am correct dictates how quickly these ships move while turning. in theory it looks good, big ships move slower while turning. however with their larger size and wider weapon arcs it gives them nearly a zero'ed turning radius which effectively multiplies their effective turning speed

im gonna play with the stats and see what i can turn up

[StellarRat]

The current issue as i see it is that the larger alien ships can literally circle strafe your fighters to death.

Yeah, there is little room for actually trying to out manuever the alien ships in the game. If their firing arcs were narrower and/or their turning rates were slower it would make for a better mini-game as you could actually try to get around them with the Foxtrots. As it stands it nearly impossible to get behind the enemy ships and get a missile lock. Another thing that would be helpful is if the human missiles had a wider firing solution. If I remember right, even in the 70's and 80's some of the missiles could be fired at nearly 90 degrees from the center line if they had a lock. The manueverability of even the alien fighters seems a bit much right now.

[Aaron]

I didn't really use the turning rate as much of a balance mechanism when I first went over the air combat, I will do another pass at it at some point and try to make the big UFOs lumbering enough that you can actually take advantage of their blind spots.

[Selvhan]

I like the idea of your aircraft been able to fire missile from 90 degree ( Doing an Arc to reach the target ). It would allow the human aircraft to remain fragile. Hit and run is really what you have to do. Alien have a better tech so it's normal if we struggle , for a certain amount of time, to go face to face.

Back on topic... :

I just cleared an alien base tonight. I had a Hunter with the pulse cannon and 6 troopers with laser gun. The alien were aggressive in the beginning, but the more I was closing from the command center, the less they were aggressive. In the last room, they were only doing reaction fire. Oh and by the way, it took 3 autoshot and 2 snapshot from a laser rifle to kill an officer ( All those shot hit him, I am not including misses ) ( + 3 electro grenade to suppress him ).

[Wrath_IX]

on the 70-80's I thin you meant 45 degrees off center (90 degree firing arc) cause 90 degrees off center would be 180 degree firing arc.

even a 5-10 degree increase in missile firing arc would be nice,

Also I have a complaint about the avalanche missiles they are obviously modeled after the aim 54 Phoenix missile. even if there is a change for higher yield ordinance the Phoenix has a operational range somewhere between 80-100 nautical Miles. so in game terms their range should be 150-200% of what it is in V19

[StellarRat]

on the 70-80's I thin you meant 45 degrees off center (90 degree firing arc) cause 90 degrees off center would be 180 degree firing arc.

even a 5-10 degree increase in missile firing arc would be nice

The L (first all aspect) version had a 25 degree off axis seeker (50 degree FOV total). So, you're right, my seeker FOV was way too high. The one I was thinking of (the R model) came out in the nineties. That one has a gimballed seeker and over 180 degrees of view. I haven't measured the FOV of the one currently in the game, but just going from memory it might be fairly close to 50 degrees total. One thing I do know, is that if the missile has lock it can make some VERY sharp turns to stay on the target. I think the modern missiles can pull 30g+ turns in combat. Edited October 30, 2013 by StellarRat