Are flamethrowers still in the game?

[StellarRat]

I'd support a form of flamethrower. I liked Max's Toxigun, it looked neat. Maybe we could do something with that? (This is me seconding all of the previous posts talking about the Toxigun, not my ignoring that it's been said before. )

I think incendiary rockets and grenades are a much better solution. The Army doesn't use flamethrowers anymore because they have a rocket system that does the same job (M202 FLASH.) Flamethrowers are very dangerous to the user. Running around with a tank of flammable liquid on your back isn't the key to long healthy life specially when your enemy is armed with plasma weapons. Edited September 18, 2013 by StellarRat

[GizmoGomez]

Well, wouldn't the toxigun idea basically just be a dedicated incendiary grenade launcher?

[EchoFourDelta]

I think incendiary rockets and grenades are a much better solution. The Army doesn't use flamethrowers anymore because they have a rocket system that does the same job (M202 FLASH.) Flamethrowers are very dangerous to the user. Running around with a tank of flammable liquid on your back isn't the key to long healthy life specially when your enemy is armed with plasma weapons.

Oh, you mean that one thing that had ammo that wouldn't fire about 10% of the time and ended up rotting in warehouses for the three and a half decades they've existed?

Yeah, they're super practical, especially when you need to fire it at a target at close range during the assault phase. Wait, that phrase describes an actual flamethrower.

[GizmoGomez]

I think incendiary rockets and grenades are a much better solution. The Army doesn't use flamethrowers anymore because they have a rocket system that does the same job (M202 FLASH.) Flamethrowers are very dangerous to the user. Running around with a tank of flammable liquid on your back isn't the key to long healthy life specially when your enemy is armed with plasma weapons.

Wouldn't/shouldn't we just make it a canister ammo thingy that you attach/detach from the gun itself, and can reload? That'd work best in the game, I think, unless we wanted it to be a "you use it all, you've used it all" kind of a weapon.

[EchoFourDelta]

Wouldn't/shouldn't we just make it a canister ammo thingy that you attach/detach from the gun itself, and can reload? That'd work best in the game, I think, unless we wanted it to be a "you use it all, you've used it all" kind of a weapon.

Aliens-style sorts. "Rifle configuration" flamethrowers. Lighter, more portable; it'd make more sense in-universe, as well as preserving existing game mechanics.

[SalsaDoom]

I'd love a flamethrower myself, if it worked reasonably realistically. Digging aliens out of cover is a real nuisance sometimes, and it'll get worse when they start tossing grenades our way. Mainly, I just want to burn the heresy right out of these disgusting xenos

[Ol' Stinky]

The Flame Guy sounds like an awesome name to have.

Believe it. I wish I could be as cool as The Flame Guy.

I'd love a flamethrower myself, if it worked reasonably realistically. Digging aliens out of cover is a real nuisance sometimes, and it'll get worse when they start tossing grenades our way. Mainly, I just want to burn the heresy right out of these disgusting xenos

I still think StellarRat's incendiary grenades/rockets could fill that role. As long as the AI knows to move out of the fire, it'd be great for forcing them out of cover.

[StellarRat]

I still think StellarRat's incendiary grenades/rockets could fill that role. As long as the AI knows to move out of the fire' date=' it'd be great for forcing them out of cover.[/quote']Well, I'm glad someone is warming up to the idea.

[EchoFourDelta]

Well, I'm glad someone is warming up to the idea.

Oh, no disagreement with the grenades. I've been doing that for a while with a few here and there. Fire chance dialed up to 100%. It's quite fun.

[Max_Caine]

In-between hot-rodding Saracens and collaborating with a333 on the awesome artwork he's busy on at the moment, I've tried out an incendiary version of the toxigun. I mean, it can be done - it's not that hard. However, did you know there's an actual code stub for a flamethrower template? No? Heh heh heh. If you set the bullettype to "flamethrower", every tile in a 90 degree angle up to the weapon range is automatically hit for full damage and then some (I'm pretty sure that the tiles gradiate from around 200% damage to 100% damage). It's not very practical and it doesn't match how Chris demonsrated how the flamethrower would have worked (way, way back, long before I became a regular. Gazz and gauddlike would remember that), but it's fun to try out once.

[GizmoGomez]

Well, I'm glad someone is warming up to the idea.

I totally support incendiary rockets and grenades. They'd be brilliant area denial weapons to create choke points.

[Gorlom]

In-between hot-rodding Saracens and collaborating with a333 on the awesome artwork he's busy on at the moment, I've tried out an incendiary version of the toxigun. I mean, it can be done - it's not that hard. However, did you know there's an actual code stub for a flamethrower template? No? Heh heh heh. If you set the bullettype to "flamethrower", every tile in a 90 degree angle up to the weapon range is automatically hit for full damage and then some (I'm pretty sure that the tiles gradiate from around 200% damage to 100% damage). It's not very practical and it doesn't match how Chris demonsrated how the flamethrower would have worked (way, way back, long before I became a regular. Gazz and gauddlike would remember that), but it's fun to try out once.

Show Vid!!!

[Elydo]

Heh, I remember the discussions about what type of flamethrower there should be, and how a liquid jet-type would work. If it would damage tiles under the stream or just splash from the point of impact etc.

[Ishantil]

Hydrazine and hydrogen peroxide. Hypergolic flamethrower. Works in space because it's got it's own oxidizer.

[GizmoGomez]

Hydrazine and hydrogen peroxide. Hypergolic flamethrower. Works in space because it's got it's own oxidizer.

Please can we have "super" incendiary weapon upgrades made from this stuff?

[Elydo]

Huh.

Wait...

Oh dammit, I'm going to spending hours trying to figure out exactly how a flamethrower would work in space. THEN I'm going to be trying to design a better one. I already had plans!

[Ishantil]

I just described a rocket engine. It was used in Me-262s in WWII. And rocket engines in the Viking landers. So it'd be easily available.

[Elydo]

Oh that was my first thought. But trying to weaponise a rocket engine for personal combat would be highly impractical. Even given the Kzinti Lesson.

So, moving on to the unique properties combusting materials have in microgravity and thus how a traditional flamethrower would behave, of both realistic and stylised types, was the next step. And from there, an actual functional method of propelling incendiary materials for combat purposes in both microgravity and vacuum.

[Ishantil]

I meant that the stuff burns rather hot. The two materials could easily be adapted into a flamethrower, rather than a rocket engine. Granted, hydrazine is extremely nasty stuff. The one reference to the stuff I found was that hydrazine+hydrogen peroxide burns at around 2700K (~4400F). You'd store it in apart of course, and then combine them together where they would react immediately on contact with each other.

There are, of course, somewhat safer ways to make a flamethrower, but they wouldn't work in space as well. My dad and I were were talking about how to make a good flamethrower on Mars (in relation to UFO Afterlight) and this is what we came up with.

Basically you'd have a nice big nozzle and point the thing in the general direction of the enemy. Burning cone of doom.

Edit: Oh, and sorry about your plans

Edited September 20, 2013 by Ishantil

[Elydo]

Right, fuck it. I'm going to get some sleep. I shall return to this tomorrow.

Though regarding a flamethrower on Mars, one third gravity is still gravity. A pressurised fluid jet would work just as well there as on Earth (though with a different arc) and your choice of chemicals already deals with the lack of oxygen. The resulting fire wouldn't burn long though, think lighter fluid or alcohol flames going out as soon as the fuel burns off, and I'd imagine that the thinner atmosphere would diminish any convection effects.

I wonder what the evaporative concerns would be...

Oh, and before anyone states the obvious, yes, a flamethrower would be a piss-poor weapons for exoatmospheric combat. In fact, barring aggressive space-moss or the like, I can't think of a appropriate situation one would fit. The closest scenarios I can postulate wherein other weapons wouldn't work are still all solved rather handily by sustained solar exposure. Potentially with focusing aids.

[Max_Caine]

Just a small point about in-game flamethrowers. I had previously considered substances like Napalm B, but you can't do damage over time, so while it would be possible to do a really hot fire (just make up a new gas and point the image at the fire spectre), the sticky part wouldn't carry over.

[Ishantil]

They idea of heating something up to 4400 degrees Fahrenheit was basically to kill whatever it was then. Not have it live and keep burning. Anything that dies when you point a rocket engine at it. Like xenomorphs of various and extremely dangerous close in varieties. When you don't want to have to aim much and burn everything that lives.

In space, you could always use it as a low intensity rocket engine.

[NoirWolf]

For 0G environments you'd want gas-based flamethrowers with high pressure and use it in small bursts to avoid a nasty tendency of flames in said environment ( it would flow much like a liquid even using a gas, using a liquid like real world ones would be asking for shit to go extremely bad even with the sticky factor taken into account ).

Rather sad to hear flamethrowers won't make it into the full game I was rather intent on using them in some offensive/defensive roles ( particularly during terror missions ) and particularly on base defence holding ground and cutting off advance avenues with care.

Edit: Also yes, this is my first post on the forums and I am gonna be pre-ordering the game in about 5-6 days at most should the Islamic hacker group that hacked the site today not decide to keep doing it.

[EchoFourDelta]

They idea of heating something up to 4400 degrees Fahrenheit was basically to kill whatever it was then. Not have it live and keep burning. Anything that dies when you point a rocket engine at it. Like xenomorphs of various and extremely dangerous close in varieties. When you don't want to have to aim much and burn everything that lives.

In space, you could always use it as a low intensity rocket engine.

Dicyanoacetylene

Toxic, caustic, and burns at 5000C. For all your alien flash-incineration needs.

Hydrazine? Pffft. Put down that sissy lighter fluid and pick up some gasoline.

Edited September 21, 2013 by EchoFourDelta

[Elydo]

I have sudden visions of you naming your child Dicynaoacetylene Delta : P

Though as a middle name that might actually be quite cool...