Stun Grenades

[Ishantil]

Has anyone actually successfully used a stun grenade to any effect? I have not been able to inflict any stun damage at all with them as far as I can tell. Are they bugged?

Or stun gas of any kind?

<!-- These are used in the code and the names should be changed in both places - here and in the code -->

Maybe that didn't get changed in the code?

Edited September 2, 2013 by Ishantil

[Josip Broz Tito]

I've never had stun damage get listed in blue text from exposure, only from the initial release from past builds.

It still works, just takes a few turns of exposure now. So...not so great ; ) If I wanted to saturate an area= I'll use the gas rockets. The grenades were useful for stunning individual aliens in the past. Now I just tend to use batons after suppressing.

[Ishantil]

I just ran two guys at a cornered Sebillian. Luckily he missed with his plasma rifle, and I zapped his face. FACE.

[lemm]

Yes, although it seems that you need to use the gas in combination with flash bangs and some shots to soften up your target. It might be good if the Xenopedia gave some hints as to how stun weapons work.

For the elite aliens, I usually run at them with a riot shield and a stun baton after I get them suppressed. A few whacks on the head usually makes them succumb.

[Ishantil]

I've been having good luck with Stun rockets to the face to suppress and soften up, then zapping them.

I actually carried the dude in the purple shirt out of the UFO so he wouldn't get accidentally killed, hehe.

[Ol' Stinky]

I use electroshock grenades when I get them. They do 80 stun damage if they land on the same tile as the target, and ~40 if they don't. Just bear in mind that they have a suppression radius of 5 and a massive 150 suppression - don't accidently suppress your own guys!

[Ishantil]

Those sound awesome!

[Dranak]

Stun gas doesn't show the damage numbers, but I have seen it work a couple times. They do seem so weak as to be nearly useless now (possible use for zoning aliens out if they won't move through the gas though).

[Ishantil]

The kinds of grenades that I carry are becoming frustratingly few.

[EchoFourDelta]

I only carry grenades whose names rhyme with drag, selenium, asthma, and intrusion.

[Ishantil]

Clearly I haven't gotten to all of the grenades, E4D.

[theothersider]

stun granades are quite useless in this version i find the original much better..i hope a revisited version..the actual can't stun anything..and alien seem invulnerable by stun damage over time passed into(i have thrown 6 granades and covered a large area and a simple ceasan guard left untoched by stun effects)

[GizmoGomez]

The reason they suddenly aren't the best for stunning is because the stun baton is meant to be the best for stunning.

[StellarRat]

stun granades are quite useless in this version i find the original much better..i hope a revisited version..the actual can't stun anything..and alien seem invulnerable by stun damage over time passed into(i have thrown 6 granades and covered a large area and a simple ceasan guard left untoched by stun effects)

I think they need to increase the "lingering" stun effect to be faster and more powerful. I kind of sympathize with GH here. If the stun effect is too strong even if not instant it makes the grenades too powerful because all you really need to do is open a UFO door throw in a few grenades and just wait for all the aliens to pass out, but if you make them too weak there is no point in using them. It's a very tough thing to balance. Maybe making the gas stronger, but making the gas radius smaller is a good compromise. Currently, one of the biggest problems is that aliens are smart enough to simple move out of the cloud. Maybe the best solution is to make the stun amount WIDELY variable per alien per turn so you really have no idea whether or not it's going to work on a given alien. They could go down in one turn or maybe not all. That would be kind of interesting. I don't know, this is a tough one. Edited September 3, 2013 by StellarRat

[StellarRat]

The reason they suddenly aren't the best for stunning is because the stun baton is meant to be the best for stunning.

I get that, but what's the point in even having them if they are absolutely useless? I like the idea of having them be unpredictable. That makes them different than the baton, but not worthless.

[Elydo]

I find they're really useful for forcing an alien out of cover or making it waste actions moving instead of shooting, as an alien will never stay in a cloud if it has an alternative.

Kinda like white phosphorous for aliens.

[Josip Broz Tito]

I'd prefer white phosphorus ; )

Anyway, I feel stun grenades are close to what they need to be. As they were= better/safer than the baton. As they are= a little to slow-acting and only useful for getting aliens to shift.

Maybe the devs want this to be an area denial weapon? Rather'd have incendiaries for that to be honest.

[StellarRat]

I'd prefer white phosphorus ; )

Anyway, I feel stun grenades are close to what they need to be. As they were= better/safer than the baton. As they are= a little to slow-acting and only useful for getting aliens to shift.

Maybe the devs want this to be an area denial weapon? Rather'd have incendiaries for that to be honest.

Good points.

[Ishantil]

Exactly my point, really, if they aren't effective, then why have them in the game? If I peg a starting level dude with three of them and he shrugs it, I'm not bringing them next time. True fact.

[StellarRat]

Exactly my point, really, if they aren't effective, then why have them in the game? If I peg a starting level dude with three of them and he shrugs it, I'm not bringing them next time. True fact.

Yup.

[Josip Broz Tito]

Yup.

[StellarRat]

I must have thrown two dozen of them last night. Nothing. Even aliens that were standing in clouds generated by four stun grenades weren't affected. Every alien I brought back alive was Tasered. Stun rockets, same results .

As I suggested earlier, I think the gas ought to be highly unpredictable. Sometimes it drops them instantly other times it does nothing. There ought to be a highly variable stun damage roll that each alien receives every turn they're in the gas. Maybe Stun damage = 2d100 - 100. So, a exceptional roll would give you 100 stun, but the average would be nothing for every turn you're exposed. That will make it different than the Taser, but still useful. Right now, it's worthless IMO except for the area denial capabilities.

Edited September 4, 2013 by StellarRat

[Ol' Stinky]

Or how about it be potent, but not immediate? Instead of it doing 80 stun damage straight up, anyone who walks into a cloud of stun gas takes 20 stun damage at the start of each turn, for four turns. (Adjust numbers to whatever you find appropriate.) That way the stun baton's got the benefit of being immediate, while stun grenades will force you to wait. Units that are suffering from stun-over-time effects could turn purple, the same way highlighted enemies turn red or highlighted soldiers turn green.

[Ishantil]

How about this:

1. First exposure, target takes 20 damage if the cloud hits him on the grenade exploding.

2. Any turn you are in the cloud, you take 1D20 Stun Damage

3. Any time you take stun damage from being in the cloud, for 1D4 turns, you have a 50% chance to take 1D10 stun damage.

[StellarRat]

I'm kind of opposed to any "lingering" continuous type of damage like Ish and Stinky have proposed. I also don't like the idea of "instant" damage. The grenades should probably detonate at the end of the turn just like frags.

While I agree that a lingering system is actually the most realistic GH had good reason to get away from that. GH didn't want it because it makes taking UFOs too easy. You open the door throw/fire a bunch of stun gas in and close the door and wait for the aliens to get to medium rare. That's why I'm proposing a highly unpredictable system. With my system, it is very possible lots of aliens will be just fine when you open the door again OR you might get really lucky and they'll all be asleep. That makes the game more suspenseful and, IMO, more fun.

But, no matter how we slice it, the stun gas is useless right now (that appears to be a consensus) and something has to be done. I'm pretty sure after last night experiences I'm not going to bother with it anymore.

Edited September 4, 2013 by StellarRat