Doing Every Mission - Solution?

[Skitso]

I think the most organic and elegant way would be to make crash sites harder to reach: slower landing ships, more quickly dissappering crash sites etc. so it would be impossible or at least really hard for the completitionist -style player to do them all. As a noob xcom player, I'm not that thrilled to have even more semi abstract layers in an already complicated game.

This would also push players to build additional bases around the globe to be able to respond more quickly to remote crash sites

Edited September 3, 2013 by Skitso

[OndieJ]

Could always introduce a soldier training facility to be built on base(s) that very slowly increases stats so you don't have to send them out on missions but they'll always progress quicker out in the field than training at base.

[Saskali]

Sorry to say this, but isn't this game interest mainly the ground combat gameplay why would someone who loves this game want to skip a crashsite?

Giving more fundings for skipping an UFO is really lame in my point of view. Why should someone who is lazy receive more than someone who actually plays the game and take risks with his soldiers and more rating is just not logical at all why would a country be more happy to loose their soldiers on a site rather than coming after the work is done to buy stuff?

If someone is bored of ground combat maybe the best solution is to take a break with the game and come back one or two weeks later .

Anyways as i love the ground combat and never skips one this won't influence my gameplay at all (just dont balance the game around more revenue gotten from skipping sites pls)

EDIT:

After some tought on it maybe this boring feeling people get comes from the short supply of maps we get for each UFO type.

Maybe that increasing (fivefold??tenfold??random maps??) the map pool will prevent this as people will always be on different environement and thus it wont seem like a repetition of the same mission each time.

More maps would help this problem greatly i think.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Saskali

[Falidell]

EDIT:

After some tought on it maybe this boring feeling people get comes from the short supply of maps we get for each UFO type.

Maybe that increasing (fivefold??tenfold??random maps??) the map pool will prevent this as people will always be on different environement and thus it wont seem like a repetition of the same mission each time.

More maps would help this problem greatly i think.

working on it. the maps themselves don't take long to make a couple minutes it's the stuff you put into the map that takes forever. their called submaps.

1.) to make it appear random and keep that appearance i estimate that i would need to make 20 sub-submaps per submap these submaps would be blocks like this:

a) 5x5 heavy cover

b) 10x10 heavy cover

c) 5x5 light Cover

d ) 10x10 light cover

the rest would be more like 10-15 variations instead of 20

e) 15x15 Barracks

f) 10x10 Storage area

G) 5x5 storage area

h) 10x10 office

i) 10x15 compound ( this would be like satelite facilitys, small jail house, missile control, etc.)

And a lot more stuff like that.

. and with those submaps make about 20 levels for each ufo genre (ie. scout/lightscout ; landing ship/corvette; etc. ) if this is done the game will only appear random within 150 crash/landing site visits. assuming you only get sites within a specific environment ( which won't be the case most of the time ) now you may be thinking why so many? REPLAY Value if you replay the game over and over. with the stated numbers assuming you will be generally getting 1-2 different environments most of the time. with about 50 sites each playthrough NOT including terror and base assaults. you should be able to play the game about 3 times before you start noticing "hey i know this level. that is assuming you set you bases the same place everytime. it takes a while to make all this for all environments. PLUS tile Development takes a while.

so yea it will be a bit before this stuff becomes a reality.

[gshuford]

Sorry to say this, but isn't this game interest mainly the ground combat gameplay why would someone who loves this game want to skip a crashsite?

Giving more fundings for skipping an UFO is really lame in my point of view. Why should someone who is lazy receive more than someone who actually plays the game and take risks with his soldiers and more rating is just not logical at all why would a country be more happy to loose their soldiers on a site rather than coming after the work is done to buy stuff?

If someone is bored of ground combat maybe the best solution is to take a break with the game and come back one or two weeks later .

Anyways as i love the ground combat and never skips one this won't influence my gameplay at all (just dont balance the game around more revenue gotten from skipping sites pls)

EDIT:

After some tought on it maybe this boring feeling people get comes from the short supply of maps we get for each UFO type.

Maybe that increasing (fivefold??tenfold??random maps??) the map pool will prevent this as people will always be on different environement and thus it wont seem like a repetition of the same mission each time.

More maps would help this problem greatly i think.

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/6074-Request-Randomized-Maps

[Falidell]

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/6074-Request-Randomized-Maps

thats exactly what the 20 levels and all those submaps are. so that that semi-randomized maps thread is already a thing.

but anyways if you wish to discuss this more about what i'm saying just PM me...

back on topic i just had to get that out of my system. as far as how to limit the amount of site to visit. what X-com did was as you destroyed bases the amount of UFOs that came by decreased by a certain percentage until after enough bases got destroyed then it leveled off but by that time the player already unlocked the endgame mission. then it's up to the player to continue playing and hold off the endgame mission or just go straight for it. so in that way it ballances off the game's crash/landing sites to the players preference.

so the question is. assuming something like this got implimented. how easy is it to get the endgame mission?

[Josip Broz Tito]

The repetative nature of the light scouts could be alleviated by adding in mixed-crew ships. These would be ships with caesans and sebillians, possibly a drone or two. Maybe even 1 harridan (armed w/ pistol) or a reaper in very rare cases.

For me, I do all the light scout missions I can...I just know what to expect each time. That's what kills it a little.

[EchoFourDelta]

The repetative nature of the light scouts could be alleviated by adding in mixed-crew ships. These would be ships with caesans and sebillians, possibly a drone or two. Maybe even 1 harridan (armed w/ pistol) or a reaper in very rare cases.

For me, I do all the light scout missions I can...I just know what to expect each time. That's what kills it a little.

THIS. That's a solid idea right there; scaling the crews up as the game progresses. You could still effectively up rookies on light scouts, provided you brought a few more troops, or compensated by bringing along a couple extra veterans to cover them (not a problem with upgraded transports).

[StellarRat]

The repetative nature of the light scouts could be alleviated by adding in mixed-crew ships. These would be ships with caesans and sebillians, possibly a drone or two. Maybe even 1 harridan (armed w/ pistol) or a reaper in very rare cases.

For me, I do all the light scout missions I can...I just know what to expect each time. That's what kills it a little.

I think just reducing the number of light scout missions once the "full" scout comes out would be sufficient. Aaron promised to leave some light scout activity in the game because there needs to be a "training path" if your whole team gets wiped out, but I think the number of Lt. Scout missions is too high right now.

[Josip Broz Tito]

Both of these combined might be great together- and would save on coding time!

[maackey]

To prevent players from aggressively going after all the crashed sites couldn't the fighter ufo's be scripted to protect and patrol around the crashsite, attacking any approaching ships? Then the player would be required to wait and re-fuel before sending another sortie out to take out the fighters before sending in the dropship. During all this wait the other UFO's would be raiding and getting away, unless you gave up attacking the guardian fighters and sent your fighters to another UFO to down *that* one.

Not only does this discourage people from going after *every* crashsite, it adds another layer of depth for the geoscape aspect of the game. Patrolling fighters can of course be an addition to other solutions posted here.

Edited September 3, 2013 by maackey

[smoitessier]

While the Air Strike idea is simple, I don't see it differently as an auto-resolve ground combat, minus the passive skill gains from others' ideas, if i'm reading this right.

If the idea is to raise the comfort level for skipping some missions, what could do it for me would be, to

Have advisors on site, with a risk of injuries, some small training for rookies, and forgo any loot in exchange for goodwill from the host country.

I would not send a landing ship, instead I'd rather see a C130 come and get you (I believe you already had them in the Geoscape a long time ago).

So it would go something like so,

A) You click on the crash site, and choose to assist local forces, window pops up, select your team of 1 to 4 peeps.

B) A C130 would take off from a random spot of the nation (within a reasonable distance of your base) and pick you up, then paradrop the LF and your team onsite.

C) 6 or so hours latter, a Charlie appear over the crash location, and take you back.

Rookies would gains some small skills, more experienced would not, but would lower risk of injuries

Caveat: I like the idea to have a chance to bring back a free rookie (depending on your experienced crew)

I see this as beneficial to grinders, since they can train rookies, and have a chance to get a free recruit to boost.

FWIW I would also reduce the range of the Charlie, making you spread your men to more bases, lowering the super squad syndrome, which would bring more fatalities, and need more troops for the grinder.

[thothkins]

Have advisors on site, with a risk of injuries, some small training for rookies, and forgo any loot in exchange for goodwill from the host country.

But would I be denied the goodwill of the funding bloc by choosing not to send advisor, but to send the team in?

The missions would all still be available, so I could send in my squad. To have it have no effect on the funding nation seems against the point of the game.

While I like the idea of different types of mission, such as the advisers, they should be extra. That would be me reducing the effectiveness of my main squad, by sending out advisers leaving myself less for base defences and "real" missions.

Remember a number of builds ago, where we had the reduced Chinook & radar range? I think the economy was slightly more open, as the game pushed you to get multiple bases up quickly. As you say smoitessier, it meant that you had multiple squads.

There was a downside in that the squad of the second base faced much tougher opponents and, at the time, a lot fewer missions. However, there's no reason why that couldn't be fixed. I can still get multiple bases if I sacrifice everything else. But the drive to do so is different. Back then, it was to get coverage and be able to do vital ground missions. Now, it's to prevent the global funding to decline rapidly. Anyway, the chinook's now global and there's no small radar.

It doesn't really address the problem that the player does not receive anything for NOT doing a crash site, so we're just banking on the boredom / laziness of the player to stop them doing every mission.

Hopefully, an increased variety of maps, objectives, destroyed ships, UFO & mission type mix in the waves reduce that "boredom."

After all, you could only farm alien bases for so long in the original. You could only raid the Cult of Sirius a hundred or so times, before the boredom kicked in. At least here, genuine missions are presented. It's not an exploit.Reducing the large number of light scouts will also help at the start.

Even with the above suggestions, if the missions are there I would go on them. Not to milk the system, but because going on them is the focus of the game.

[Elydo]

If the economy is geared towards multiple bases, and thus running multiple squads, the pacing of the difficulty progression would need to reflect that. More higher tier weapons/armour would need to be manufactured, any particular given soldier is going to be less 'leveled' etc.

[GizmoGomez]

I think it should be geared to multiple squads; it makes more sense.

[DNK]

I think giving the player the ability to hand it off to local forces for a funding boost is best. The local forces would, presumably, just carpet bomb the area, but since they can keep whatever they find, they're thankful.

I also think allowing UFOs to be totally destroyed by overdamage needs to be in. Light scouts getting hit by plasma torpedoes should not generate ground missions. If the player wants to grind up, he can refit his craft with standard explosives or something. Additionally, refitting time should not take very long at all (the same as rearming).

Lastly, the recruit pool really needs to increase a bit with the ticker. Like +25% from start to finish. This reduces the need to grind every mission, and the player doesn't get totally screwed if his elite squad gets annihilated at some point in the later game.

[GizmoGomez]

Lastly, the recruit pool really needs to increase a bit with the ticker. Like +25% from start to finish. This reduces the need to grind every mission, and the player doesn't get totally screwed if his elite squad gets annihilated at some point in the later game.

I like this idea; as the Xenonauts gain prestige, the world offers better recruits. Simple explanation.

[lemm]

Yeah, it wouldn't be so bad if scout crews weren't composed of the same alien squad every time.

Is it just me, or do corvettes seem to disappear after the larger ships start showing up? It's like they're a limited time offer, only around for November 1979.

[Falidell]

i think we are over complicating the issue of number of missions per game. off site bombings(why?), different crews on ships(doesn't have to do with the issue), xenonauts xp gain boosts and higher ranked recruits(which CAN influence the player into being less likely to ran the missions but i am a player who will run every mission i get because i enjoy long games.. if i play 4 hours a day for 2 weeks thats a good length for me), gifting sites????? this is the Xenonauts( we were made so the govs don't have too right?!) IMHO only Gifting should be is request for tech for gov based research and development......

[Josip Broz Tito]

Falidell, how wouldn't mixed up crews of aliens go against your thoughts? It's added variety to the ground missions.

It's been brought up, and now I think it's the case that there's nothing unexpected that can happen in light scout missions. It's just 5-8 mooks w/ plasma pistols that you have to fight well past the point where you're practically immune to their weapons.

If people aren't wanting to run ground missions: now, to me that means that there's a lack of variety occuring. I'm sure more advanced alien AI will help, but adding in secondary objectives etc and random factors can help a ton.

In the OG, random maps were what made it replayable to heck. We can't have those in this game, so we need another random factor to spice up missions and make us wonder what awaits us each time the chinook lands.

[Falidell]

well you see the issue isn't that it's not a good idea on the contrary i think mixed crews would be a fantastic idea for variety however. it has no effect for the issue this thread is about. it won't effect how many missions there are per game....

as far as the Missions available NOW. they stated they will be going on a mapping craze after they get the Tweaking and Basic Mechanics all finished up. so for the sake of discusion on this thread.

Doing EveryMission? how to Seamlessly Limit the number of missions while keeping FUN and keeping to LORE?

Assumtions to make while discussing:

1.) All Maps are Fun, Unique, Never the same.

2.) Variety is Not an Issue.

Begin.

[Falidell]

i think a COS wave with modifiers and monthly Scenarios could be useful in this situation.

start off the game medium amount of UFOs

a. the game starts off just after the early stages of the invasion.

b. medium amount because we need to kill off a lot of recruits to feed the player fear and inadequacy.

as the game continues the invasion intensifies. lot more UFOs

the invasion should reach it's peak about halfway through the game.

now as the player finds and destroy bases it should modify the sin wave which controls the ufo frequency to a lower value to reflect the effects of a base being destroyed.

now each month from start to finish their should be a random scenario which affects the frequency of UFO Arrivals to create an affect of change in strategy of the aliens this could be increased ufo sightings or lower ufo sightings or have more non-mission-making ufos such as fighters and heavy fighters.

towards the end of the game or when the player is close to unlocking endgame mission slow down ufo sighting to reflect the aliens have suffered quite a bit of casualties.

all this will make it so the game Automatically regulates the amount of crash/landing missions that will be made in the game.

maybe even have options in the newgame creation window for short game(Less UFOs, Increased ResearchTime), Normal game(Devs Desired Settings for UFOs and Research Time), Long Game (increased UFO's and ResearchTime) this way the player can also choose what kind of game they will have to suit their playstyle.

using a sin wave with modifiers and Scenerio cases all thats left is just playing many games to test game length and mission count to for-fill Dev's Desires. easiest to adjust and regulate. they'd have to completely redo the spawning system tho for the ufos.

this will what the vars and Equation would look something like

Edit: i don't have my math finished yet figuring how to implement the spawning system

Edited September 4, 2013 by Falidell
My Math was Wrong

[thothkins]

good points but on

towards the end of the game or when the player is close to unlocking endgame mission slow down ufo sighting to reflect the aliens have suffered quite a bit of casualties.

Isn't the game supposed to ramp up to the point that you have to do the final mission because there's no way humanity can keep up the defence?

I do see your thinking. The most boring stretch of the original game, after a few plays it should be added, was playing battleships with cookie cutter soldiers waiting for the final research to finish.

I found the same with UFO:ET.

A reduction in missions, in the knowledge that they will be larger ships/ longer missions is a logical one.

[Elydo]

Sine wave. There's an 'e' on the end.

[Falidell]

and with the reduction of missions including larger ones the research could be rushed just click and wait lol

eh sin for short