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Ground Combat Balance Discussion V19 Stable


Aaron

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I really think people will complain regardless if alien damage is boosted w/ some weapons later on or if they're more accurate than what's around now. Leave them for the harder difficulties.

I personally would like to see 'elite' versions of the weapons with the aliens reverse-engineering our mag weapons. Reason: I get the feeling now that the aliens aren't actually set up for an invasion (the invasion's an act of desperation) and that they're learning as they make the attempt.

Plus, the introduction of these weapons wouldn't leave a lore-hole: we wouldn't need to research these since we were the ones who invented them! (This goes off the assumption that Mag weapons are an improvement over alien tech. Never got to them in a game.)

Plus it would be a cool dynamic. If there's one thing that humans are good at, it's fighting stuff: each other, aliens, w/e.

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I like the idea of elite versions of some of the weapons.

I think that the elite versions could simply be very high performance versions of their existing weapons. Various special forces teams and the like have access to considerably better hardware than what the average infantryman has.

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I get the feeling now that the aliens aren't actually set up for an invasion (the invasion's an act of desperation) and that they're learning as they make the attempt.

It is indeed an invasion; the game lore explicitly spates it as such. (Spoilers available for your perusal in the Xenopedia)

As far as elite weapons go, I'd like that idea. They'd have to be different in a significant but not OP way. If aliens didn't have unlimited ammo, increasing the shots-per-cell would be a possibility, but that's out.

Maybe give them more armor penetration? Balance it out so that the tier-3 human armors are very much impervious to non-elite weapons, but the elite weapons still pose a serious threat.

Edited by GizmoGomez
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Never said it wasn't an invasion: just that they aren't well-prepared for it. It's the only way to justify the gameplay with the lore. If they were prepared= alien troops would have heavy armor going right from the get-go as well as prepared capital ships.

This means they either have a limited supply of heavy armor and weapons, or they're scrambling to manufacture them as they invade.

It also suggests that they haven't had time to convert ships beforehand and are trying to conquer us as fast as possible by sending weaker ships as soon as they're ready. Actions like this smack of desperation.

Since the aliens know of our atmosphere and its composition and should be able to design for it= they must be rushed for some reason. Either another alien race has pushed them from their territory, or they're desperate for Earth's resources.

If you go with this= it opens the way for a Xenonauts 2 in the future ; )

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Speaking of accuracy values, I want to see accuracy stat of non-combatant aliens to be increased, even if it entails decrease in number of aliens on board. The fact that they always use alien plasma pistol is already stifling enough penalty to distinguish them from the guards, and would make earlier engagements (before armours) more entertaining since it'll dissuade alien camping behaviour and punish player more for making mistakes.

As is now, I feel there is too much difficulty gap between light scout and scout even now, regardless of how many aliens they come with.

Edited by ventuswings
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Never said it wasn't an invasion: just that they aren't well-prepared for it. It's the only way to justify the gameplay with the lore. If they were prepared= alien troops would have heavy armor going right from the get-go as well as prepared capital ships.

This means they either have a limited supply of heavy armor and weapons, or they're scrambling to manufacture them as they invade.

It also suggests that they haven't had time to convert ships beforehand and are trying to conquer us as fast as possible by sending weaker ships as soon as they're ready. Actions like this smack of desperation.

Since the aliens know of our atmosphere and its composition and should be able to design for it= they must be rushed for some reason. Either another alien race has pushed them from their territory, or they're desperate for Earth's resources.

If you go with this= it opens the way for a Xenonauts 2 in the future ; )

Spoilers ahead that explain the apparent lack of preparation on the alien's part.

"We finally have our answers, Commander. These creatures are biologically immortal, immune to aging - but certainly not to violent injury. Our captive is evidently terrified by the possibility of death and proved exceptionally compliant during the interrogation.

The Praetors are an ancient race that developed hyperspace technology millions of years ago. Their history was unremarkable until they encountered the Caesans. The Caesans of old had settled their home system, but did not possess the hyperdrive technology they needed to travel beyond it. What they did possess was the power of telepathy, along with several other latent psionic abilities. It proved their undoing; craving the powers for themselves, the Praetors subjugated the Caesans and studied them until they identified the genetic material responsible.

They improved this genetic material and granted themselves extraordinary psionic powers. They became a race of intergalactic tyrants, seeking out and enslaving sentient life in endless pursuit of ""improvements"" (e.g. the biological immortality extracted from the Sebillians). The useful species were retained, genetically re-sequenced to ensure submission and servitude.

This is the fate planned for us. Our enemies toy with us - this invasion is just a test. The High Praetor measures our progress from the bridge of the enormous alien mothership orbiting our planet. Without him, the fleet would collapse...but then the extraterrestrials would simply jump in a new fleet. There would be no end. At best, we would have the choice between extinction or subjugation. Neither much appeals.

The rules must change, Commander. I have an idea...just give me a little time to develop it."

They aren't incompetent, they're just giving humanity a chance to demonstrate any abilities worth assimilating before choosing to annihilate us.

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Never said it wasn't an invasion: just that they aren't well-prepared for it. It's the only way to justify the gameplay with the lore. If they were prepared= alien troops would have heavy armor going right from the get-go as well as prepared capital ships.

This means they either have a limited supply of heavy armor and weapons, or they're scrambling to manufacture them as they invade.

It also suggests that they haven't had time to convert ships beforehand and are trying to conquer us as fast as possible by sending weaker ships as soon as they're ready. Actions like this smack of desperation.

Since the aliens know of our atmosphere and its composition and should be able to design for it= they must be rushed for some reason. Either another alien race has pushed them from their territory, or they're desperate for Earth's resources.

If you go with this= it opens the way for a Xenonauts 2 in the future ; )

I know how the game ends, and how all the lore goes. (Xenopedia, man. Spoilers. So many delicious spoilers.) ;)

Without spoiling too much, the aliens didn't think they needed as good a force, so they were rather lax about their invasion. When they realized that we were withstanding their small stuff, they brought out the big stuff. Their big problem was not considering us a threat.

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Of Aggressive, Passive and Defensive AI subtypes, I find the Aggressive subtype the most fun to play against. Mostly because they do something. Passive and Defensive subtypes are utterly boring and very predictable: find cover, go into overwatch, find cover, go into overwatch. The Aggressive subtype will seek me out, try to flank me, sneak around, run to help its buddies... the Aggressive subtype is so much fun to play against that I've modded the ufocontents of all the ufos to have zero Passive and Defensive subtypes and max aggressive subtypes. While I understand the value of having different subtypes, the Passive and Defensive subtypes need to have something done to them so they actualy do something other than flail around like an idiot.

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I find the increasing numbers of alines in small craft to be somewhat redicolous. 8 aliens in the light scout???

Personally, I'd make the enemy scaling a lot more event (less difference), but have less aliens in the begining. It appelas to me more than having weak non-combatants and tons and tons of enemies.

So you'd really have to struggle to bring down an alien down early on - they would require ganging up and lots of firepower

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Of Aggressive, Passive and Defensive AI subtypes, I find the Aggressive subtype the most fun to play against. Mostly because they do something. Passive and Defensive subtypes are utterly boring and very predictable: find cover, go into overwatch, find cover, go into overwatch. The Aggressive subtype will seek me out, try to flank me, sneak around, run to help its buddies... the Aggressive subtype is so much fun to play against that I've modded the ufocontents of all the ufos to have zero Passive and Defensive subtypes and max aggressive subtypes. While I understand the value of having different subtypes, the Passive and Defensive subtypes need to have something done to them so they actualy do something other than flail around like an idiot.

Yes. And there probably shouldn't be passive/defensive aliens on terror and base attack missions at all.

I find the increasing numbers of alines in small craft to be somewhat redicolous. 8 aliens in the light scout???

Personally, I'd make the enemy scaling a lot more event (less difference), but have less aliens in the begining. It appelas to me more than having weak non-combatants and tons and tons of enemies.

So you'd really have to struggle to bring down an alien down early on - they would require ganging up and lots of firepower

I can't say I feel the same way. I don't mind having enemy types that are bullet sponges, like a slow melee alien that's built like a tank. Boosting the health of every non-com, though? That's going to slow the game right down. It'll feel like a return to the bad old days of pre-universal accuracy buff, where it takes too long to bring down the weakest alien type and the maps are too empty.

My issues with light scouts right now are the sheer number of them we clear (which is something they're going to address - I look forward to v20 to see what approach they decide to go with), and the lack of variety in the crew itself.

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Eight in a Lt. Scout seems like a lot, but from the outside the ship is HUGE. Maybe the sleep in alien "hammocks" stacked on top of each other.

They don't stack the sleeping space ontop of each other. I'm convinced their one and only bunk stacks the sleepers in multiple extradimensional pockets, basically making the light scouts the interstellar equivilent of a clown car.

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Hello,

i post that in other sections bevor i found this Thread.

I think your Base and Terror Missions Need to be Balanced and Poslished.

After the placement phase I should be on the train immediately and not round will be closed and the aliens on the train. This negates the advantage of this feature.

Terrorist missions:

-The map is too small

-The aliens are mostly all on a pile. This is boring and takes the terror missions the atmosphere. I might as well all equipped with rocket launchers and firing blind in the next obstacle.

-The aliens should be scattered on the map amok. This is a terrorist operation. No squat on the spot and wait for 8 soldiers mission.

- Again, should you have to search the building.

Alien bases:

- Except for a few sections, they look like Terran bases and the decorative elements act Loveless Places.

- Too few aliens patrol it unless you're dealing with Sebilians then it goes to some extent.

wrecks:

- In the cities (even in terrorist missions) there are simply too few buildings in which you must clean them to explore on several floors. Actually, aliens never verbunkern there or walk around there. Really a shame.

glitches:

My soldiers can often fly cover purely in UFOs.

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The aliens in terror missions are scattered. The reason you see a mob of aliens is the AI does its job and works as a team, communicating to aliens further away from the dropship that there are high-priority targets in and around the dropship. The further-away aliens then rush to the scene of the battle, which is why (especially with the hyper aggressive Sebillians), you see "waves" of aliens approach the dropship as the aliens group up and head towards the battle. Aaron mentioned he is likely to put the aliens in one half of the map, and the civvies and the ropship in the other. That way the AI can still work as a team, seeking out targets without dumbing down the AI so it stops working as a team.

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The aliens in terror missions are scattered. The reason you see a mob of aliens is the AI does its job and works as a team, communicating to aliens further away from the dropship that there are high-priority targets in and around the dropship. The further-away aliens then rush to the scene of the battle, which is why (especially with the hyper aggressive Sebillians), you see "waves" of aliens approach the dropship as the aliens group up and head towards the battle. Aaron mentioned he is likely to put the aliens in one half of the map, and the civvies and the ropship in the other. That way the AI can still work as a team, seeking out targets without dumbing down the AI so it stops working as a team.
It also gives your troops a chance to actually get out of the choppa. No pilot is going to intentionally put down in a hot LZ unless ordered to (even then it's questionable.) Assuming there is some intel about where the aliens are the chopper would always set down outside the combat zone and let the Xenonauts move up to engage. Edited by StellarRat
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It also gives your troops a chance to actually get out of the choppa. No pilot is going to intentionally put down in a hot LZ unless ordered to (even then it's questionable.) Assuming there is some intel about where the aliens are the chopper would always set down outside the combat zone and let the Xenonauts move up to engage.

It is times like these I wish there was multiplayer... so I can teamspeak with my team and use this line when losing:

[video=youtube;-9-Te-DPbSE]

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@Max

Maybe, but the problem is that so the whole atmosphere is lost.

If the map is larger, the aliens do not arrive immediately to the ship.

Moreover, I find that the aliens already then should send a squad of my team but the majority of attacks should be on the map civilians hunting. I want to search again with fear every corner and in every open door to fear WELDING on the forehead have. THAT was namely the appeal of the terrorist missions.

At the moment terror missions are a complete disappointment for me. Logical arguments or not. The classic UFO has made it really better here

And I'm missing as I said the search of building complexes.

The wrecks have you managed that super fun.

With more surprise attacks by enemies, the alien bases would be good.

I like your UFO. That's the only reason I'm ever the trouble, convey somewhat understandable with Google Translator my thoughts.^^

@NoirWolf

Lol^^

Arnold Schwarzenegger was THE hero of my childhood. ^ ^

Edited by VaeliusNoctu
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The majority of inital attacks by aliens in a terror mission are on civilians and friendly NPCs. You must have noticed that aliens give a higher target priority to civilians than soliders, to the point where aliens will do silly things like shoot an unarmed civilian while your soliders are shooting at him. If you face a cautious opponent, such as Caesans, which gives you the chance to leave the dropship you must have seen the dead NPC soliders and civilians as you reveal the map. Take a vehicle to a terror map - at the moment, aliens don't really target vehicles. Ride around in it and look at the map, and tell me how many civilians you see still living after the first few turns.

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I think first terrors maps must be little bigger. With this size all aliens will be just across the street if not at first turn then at second no matter where you place them. Do not afraid make it bigger, playing this game is not so boring as you think.

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@MAX

Ok then something else would have to be modified to not start running all the aliens on the map against my team. The argument that they work as a team is nice but the fact is that it is simply feel bad balanced.

Why not just work then the aliens in UFOs as a team? These are scattered on the map. In the bases usually sit in a room and wait for me.

What I'm saying is that you could change it but so that not all aliens in alarm condition to run my team just because an opponent has seen me. I would like to have many smaller battles instead of one big one.

At the moment, it would also do an arena 64x64 large fields and the survivors come home again. ^ ^

For me, survival usually many civilians, but not all. ^ ^

When it most like it's just my bad luck but I like the style of the old UFO terror missions more. I usually wait about the terror site and then make the landed UFO. Is just a shame.

But like I said if its the terror missions Revision and the alien bases look a little more like Alien bases let the game is almost perfect.

But that's just my impression of the things.

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