Geoscape Balance Discussion V19 Stable

[Aaron]

I am just going to refresh this thread now that V19 Stable is out. For those of you who might not visit the forums as often - the purpose of this thread is to gather feedback of the current state of balance of the Geoscape portion of the game (i.e. the world map, including air combat, base building, research, manufacturing and soldier equipping) so we can see if the gameplay is shaping up the way we want. This is specifically NOT for bug reports - they go in the bug reporting forum (and are gratefully received!).

As V19 Stable is quite a milestone for us, I am interested in hearing more general feedback on how people feel about the Geoscape - do you find it challenging, frustrating, fun? Are there parts of it that get on your nerves, or that you feel are particularly effective, and if so, why? I'm really hoping we can also get some feedback from people who have only been playing V18 up until now, as they will have quite a different perspective from those who have followed every experimental build and all the attendant minutiae (feedback still welcome from the usual suspects too of course )

[lemm]

Maybe I've played the game from the beginning too many times, but I think that there are still too many light scout missions. I know that you don't really HAVE to do all of them, but your soldiers stats and your bank account are ameliorated quite substantially if you do. Maybe light scouts could be destroyed half of the time instead of crash landing.

The air combat minigame is enjoyable. I liked the alien craft rolling away from cannon-fire, but it's not a big deal to have had that removed. Aircraft recovery times are well balanced. I don't think the ground vehicles have a recovery time (?) though I think they should.

The biggest problem is that base assaults in the early game can be a bit imbalanced, especially if the aliens arrive in a landingship with a dozen heavy plasmas when all you have are a few laser guns. Terror sites are sometimes impossible as well, although you don't have to win all of those to stay in the game. You can still exploit the faulty AI and beat these overwhelming odds, although I figure that will not be possible for very long. Then again, if you know that your base is going under, you can ship everything and everyone to a second base, sell the facilities, and rebuild somewhere else without losing too much cash, so maybe it's not so bad as long as you have a couple of extra bases in reserve.

I like the research times; getting a second research lab up and running is now a necessity.

[Ol' Stinky]

Maybe I've played the game from the beginning too many times, but I think that there are still too many light scout missions. I know that you don't really HAVE to do all of them, but your soldiers stats and your bank account are ameliorated quite substantially if you do. Maybe light scouts could be destroyed half of the time instead of crash landing.

I can't find the post, so I'm wondering whether I dreamt it - didn't either Aaron or Chris say that they were playing with a solution to the amount of light scouts? My mental health's in worse shape than I thought if they never said that.

[Chris]

Yes, we still want to solve the problem of there being too many Light Scout crash site missions. The solution is up for discussion here: http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/7314-Doing-Every-Mission-Solution?p=84564#post84564

[Josip Broz Tito]

I've always liked the spike in difficulty terror missions gave/give.

To me, it really gives that impression that you aren't the aggressor in this situation and you do NOT have the advantage. You have failed to down the UFO that started the mission, and are stuck trying to contain the situation. These missions really make rocket launchers shine.

A hint on lower difficulties to bring extra ammo, smokes, and explosives might be a good idea for newer players.

As for base defense= I don't see that as an issue. At that stage of the game, you need to to think about keeping some troops at base for the extra defense, as well as maybe a defense turret or two. Rockets shine in base defense as well. Only wish was that the geoscape base tile layout was larger so that you could design more defensible bases like in TFTD.

[Crimson]

I like the changes to geoscape so far; the new ocean color is a huge help for one, and kinda easier on the eyes.

One thing I'm really conflicted about, is the UFO's new dodge.

It's not that I dislike the concept; to the contrary it's nice that aliens can fight back more effectively. But I also think that with the current cooldown rates, the dodge is seriously overpowered. I've tried in several games to land missile hits on Light UFOs, and I've been consistently unable to land even a single hit. I can understand a UFO rolling out of my first Sidewinder that I fire at maximum range, but it's a bit...weird when the alien ship magically rolls out of my missile's way..in the exact moment when I fire the second missile at point blank range...only for it to stand still and let itself be eaten up by my vulcans. More glaring when after that I see a Xenopedia entry that states that early alien craft are "poorly adopted to atmospheric flight". Yyyyyeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh......a bit odd, that one.

Otherwise though, I'm pretty fine with the changes so far, although admittedly I'm not that far into game.

[Josip Broz Tito]

Put one on pause, then fire it when the UFO is halfway through it's dodge of the first missile you fired. The 2nd missile fired will hit.

[Nickboom]

That doesnt work any more the UFO's now have a one second delay for rolling.

[Josip Broz Tito]

Reread what I posted- you fire while they're still rolling from the first : ) The missile will track just enough to hit them before they can roll again. Give it a little practice before dismissing it.

[Tobbzn]

Balance issue: I can dual wield shields, stick another two shields in my backpack in case the first two break, and fill the rest of my slots with grenades. On a starting soldier.

At this point it seems like the only reason to not have every soldier carry a shield & pistol would be to free up bag space for stuff that is heavy enough to actually train strength, or if one wants to carry two "big" weapons at once.

Suggestion: 10 kg.

Balance issue: I still run out of research topics at least once using just 15 scientists at the start. Once the research drought ends, I go up to 30 scientists, but mid-game tech such as wolf and shrike still take long enough to research that one can research the late-game replacements by the time production is finished.

Suggestion: Have a few medium UFOs show up earlier, or give landing ship data cores from base defence/terror missions.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Tobbzn

[xcomnaut]

I've always liked the spike in difficulty terror missions gave/give.

To me, it really gives that impression that you aren't the aggressor in this situation and you do NOT have the advantage. You have failed to down the UFO that started the mission, and are stuck trying to contain the situation. These missions really make rocket launchers shine.

A hint on lower difficulties to bring extra ammo, smokes, and explosives might be a good idea for newer players.

Are you sure the aliens are terrorists in your game?

[Josip Broz Tito]

Lol, good point. Now if I could only weave together a good "there goes the neighborhood" joke.

An option to enable hints and basic advice on lower difficulties would be great for newer players, and maybe some more seasoned ones as well.

E.x. letting people know you can set missiles to 'hold fire', or letting players know they can breach UFO's by opening the door/explosives/gunfire and the pros and cons of each.

[Crimson]

Tried the "fire missile, pause the game, fire second while UFO is rolling" thing, and this indeed does work.

Thanks for the tip.

[Josip Broz Tito]

That's the thing though- it's not really intuitive : ( I wouldn't've likely figured it out w/out a LOT of frustration if I hadn't read about it from Dranak.

Some form of link to a basic guide or in-game tips for beginners would be awesome.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Josip Broz Tito
typo

[Dranak]

There's been some discussion of a tutorial or tip screens. It's been tabled for now, since any tutorial that's made now would need to be continually revised to keep up with gameplay changes. Hopefully there'll be something like that for new players by release.

And I'm tentatively planning another air combat video, I just need to practice to see if Condors are actually as powerful as I think they are currently. Repair times are extremely frustrating, so even if they are OP, the penalty for taking any damage may balance that.

[kabill]

And I'm tentatively planning another air combat video, I just need to practice to see if Condors are actually as powerful as I think they are currently. Repair times are extremely frustrating, so even if they are OP, the penalty for taking any damage may balance that.

Repair times wouldn't actually be that bad, since you can still send out planes with 50%+ HP left. The problem is that planes won't refuel while damaged, meaning that you probably can't send them out again because the tanks are empty.

[Saskali]

Considering the monney managment changes from v18 to v19 i find that the changes are not that good.

First:

Making monney income switch fom ground combat to country rating makes the geoscope gameplay more slow. You now receive a lot of monney at the beinning of the month but few during this same month. So actually in play i have a lot to do in base managment at the beggining of the month but afterwads as i am monney starved i have nothing to do most of the time. The v18 version where i could build my base troughout the month was better in my point of view. Even if in the end we get the same aamount of monney it gives the impression in the v18 soluion that i have more to do as i constantly can improve my base instead of building a lot in few days and then waiting 28 days for monney (exagerating a bit here to prove my point ).

Second:

Making country rating more important makes it mandatory to play a multi base gameplay. Even a well placed base will allow only 5 or 6 country protection. So if i don't build another base right away i will loose those countries invariably and therefore loose a lot of monney wich ends with me not being able to cope with invasion pace.

At least if the changes stay make people in normal difficulty start with 2 bases or hint that they should build several bases.

Appart from that and the overnerf of the foxtrot (smaller missile range, more expensive to build and two less missiles which can only be torpedos? come on ) i like the changes and the game a lot.

Thanks a lot for your hard work

Edited September 2, 2013 by Saskali

[lemm]

I'm wondering if the Charlie's range should be reduced back to what it was in v17 or v18. I remember when I first started playing Xenonauts, you couldn't quite make every terror site from one base and I thought that added a lot to the geoscape element, but the problem was that you were handed terror sites before you even had a hope of establishing a second base. Now, you can easily get two bases up and running before the first terror site appears.

[DNK]

You could just make the money trickle in each day, while having monthly reviews that affected your daily income. I think that would really improve the day-to-day planning and base management while not overwhelming the player with constant funding status reports, and giving them time to reverse a few mistakes so as to not have an immediate funding loss (or territorial loss if a base is found but they can't get to it soon due to whatever reasons).

[Dranak]

Repair times wouldn't actually be that bad, since you can still send out planes with 50%+ HP left. The problem is that planes won't refuel while damaged, meaning that you probably can't send them out again because the tanks are empty.

Yes, but Condors have such terrible fuel capacity that it's quite rare for them to be able to sortie again immediately without refueling for at least a couple hours, so if they take any damage at all they are effectively removed from a wave. And if they take moderate damage (around 50% or so) they're out for repairs for so long that they miss the rest of the current wave and normally all of the next wave. Currently there is very little difference between a plane that took 50% damage and one that was shot down.

[StellarRat]

My two cents: I like the new air combat "system". It's a lot more interesting than the old one.

[Josip Broz Tito]

I second what StellarRat has said.

[Ishantil]

So I find myself with a lot more money lying around than I did previously when most of my funding was based off of killing UFOs.

The new funding levels have changed a few things in my play style:

1. I have enough money for more than one base. In fact, I'm building a third base, now, which is something I've never done.

2. I tend to concentrate on the overall picture of the invasion more, and on killing every damn UFO I can less. This makes the game a lot less tedious, when I feel I can just shoot down the UFOs (and not engage them in ground combat)

3. Having some cash lying around lets me build armor and weapons as long as I'm careful

I'm almost thinking the monthly funding per nation might need to be tweaked down 10-20%. What do you guys think?

Also, having more nations but the same money numbers would make things more interesting. Placing your first base in Europe or the Med is a complete no brainer, and I'd like to see this diluted some by there being more regions in the Americas and Asia.

[StellarRat]

I think the $$ is just about perfect right now. It's great at the start, but once hordes of medium size UFO's start showing up it's just barely enough to get by. That's how it should be IMO.

[Elydo]

Err, I keep running out of money. Whilst hardly swimming in gear. All this does is reinforce my paranoia that the finance fairies irrationally hate me, even in games...