Ishantil Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Okay, seriously, I just got the guy next to me? 90 degrees out of arc? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoFourDelta Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 The Xenonauts use special de-accurized weapon systems, modified with an intenal cone shape halfway down the barrel and with completely stripped bores for maximum chance of missing what they're firing at. After watching the prior-service special operations troops slaughter aliens in combat, Commander Chris requested these modifications - along with injecting all the soldiers with horse tranquilizers, surgically excising 50% of their muscle mass, and removing 95% of the rods and cones in their eyes - to give the aliens a fair shake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishantil Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 Ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoFourDelta Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 I can find no other explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishantil Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 I think they need to narrow the cone a bit on the missing calculation. I don't mind it missing, but flying sideways into my guys is just stupid. Perhaps we could limit it to say, a 30 degree arc? That'll make it a lot more likely that I'll just shoot the guy next to the target, rather than the guy next to me behind this brick wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relic Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Agreed, the friendly fire is screwed up. As stated, it's not uncommon to shoot the soldier next to you when aiming >45 degrees away. If it was a 90 degree cone that couldn't happen. Actually, given the length of a rifle, it shouldn't be possible to shoot someone immediately next to you. You might knock them in the head with the barrel, but the length of the firearm would put the muzzle past them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 I agree this is annoying - but the thing to remember is we don't have the concept of a "cone" of fire in the game, so it's not as simple as reducing a spread value. What actually happens is the impact area of the bullets spreads out by a certain number of tiles from the targeted tile, so the closer the target you aim at the more wildly off the gun line the angle of misses can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoFourDelta Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 > we don't have the concept of a "cone" of fire in the gameWhat actually happens is the impact area of the bullets spreads out by a certain number of tiles from the targeted tile, so the closer the target you aim at the more wildly off the gun line the angle of misses can be. Something sounds like it was done backwards here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishantil Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 The guy I was shooting at was probalby 8-10 tiles away. There's no logic at all in the calculation? It just selects a completely random tile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) I agree this is annoying - but the thing to remember is we don't have the concept of a "cone" of fire in the game, so it's not as simple as reducing a spread value.What actually happens is the impact area of the bullets spreads out by a certain number of tiles from the targeted tile, so the closer the target you aim at the more wildly off the gun line the angle of misses can be. I still don't understand why you guys don't use short and long shots instead of only left and right misses. Just shoot into the dirt or over the heads of the aliens. Extreme left and right misses are bad and they look ridiculous. In the OG a horrible miss at close range would go into the ground not kill your buddy right next to you. Edited August 27, 2013 by StellarRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoFourDelta Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) They did this in the original XCOM; cover doesn't have to provide a "chance" to miss. It does that all on its own by covering a portion of the target's body. If you have a firing cone based on the soldier's accuracy and the weapon's inherent accuracy, you can do XYZ all over the place; if you have this, of COURSE cover's still going to be useful, and in a much more natural way than giving the round a chance to fly 15 meters to the left of the direction the soldier's aiming. There's really only so many places a bullet can go when you're pointing a gun in X direction; the weapon's operator may not be standing perfectly still, and he may not be a Scout Sniper, but it's hard to imagine the soldiers are somehow tripping and falling every time the trigger gets pulled, sending the round 60 degrees or some other equally ridiculous and arbitrarily large number in the opposite direction from where he's aiming. Edited August 27, 2013 by EchoFourDelta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 I second the short-long shots proposal. I also agree with E4D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishantil Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 The way I see it: 1. Shot is fired, target tile is selected (based on accuracy) [hopefully this can be restricted, or even adjusted based on how much you missed by] 2. Each tile providing any cover in between has a chance to absorb the shot, each calculated separately, depending on how larger the item in the tile is, if it's a wall, 100%, or whatever 3. Shot is animated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 As we've said before, the main issue at the moment is that it's not possible to shoot through a unit. Maybe we'll change it in the future but at the moment we're working on a Stable build and we're not going to try changing something that may well underpin a lot of systems in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishantil Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 I know that the dev team on bug fixing in the stable build. And I definitely appreciate it. Keep up the good work. Don't mind us, we're just trying to figure out some logic in the game rules and what a good solution would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Could make the shot do zero damage too. That wouldn't require much special programming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusherven Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Yeah, it still needs some work. Just now, I had a soldier send a full burst stone-cold through a wall to kill the soldier behind it at an angle that shouldn't be possible. The dead soldier had a wall protecting him (which was destroyed obviously) and the target was the alien. I would have been shocked even if I had been trying to make that shot, because it looks completely impossible without destroying at least one more wall section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalsaDoom Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Haha, ah yes. FF. In this game, I've noticed that FF is far more accurate then when you are shooting at an enemy. Its annoying, but its good enough for me the devs are aware of it For the moment, I just assume that if any friendly is anywhere near the guy shooting he'll get hit every time. Honestly, the clumsy fumbly grenades are far more annoying to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishantil Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 You know, about the only time I reload a game in combat is when the friendly fire is really fantastically unbelievably stupid. Like 40 degree off rockets. No. Just...no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OndieJ Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 At least the enemy blast themselves in the back as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoFourDelta Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Wait. I've got it! It all makes sense now! The reason we get the caliber of troops we do! Why the national militaries can't do anything! The guys we have are all that's left. Because they blue-on-blue'd everyone else in their respective militaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishantil Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Wow, yeah, now it all makes sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishantil Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 I'm tempted to just save every turn. Due to friendly fire stupidness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Because they blue-on-blue'd everyone else in their respective militaries. Earth's funding blocs had but a brief time to regret outsourcing to Pancakes Personnel, before the alien invasion wiped them from the globe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relic Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I'm tempted to just save every turn. Due to friendly fire stupidness. That's what I do because of the borked up friendly fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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