Air combat question

[cody522]

Do you eventually research better missiles? Currently the foxtrot and its avalanche missiles are disappointing. I was expecting two avalanche missiles to deal a lot more damage than an entire condor can with its cannons and sidewinders.

And how many condors and foxtrots do you guys keep in your bases?

[Ishantil]

Yes, after you get some alenium, you can research alenium explosives which will automatically upgrade grenades, missiles, sidewinders and avalanche missiles to the alenium version.

I typically run 2 condors and 1 foxtrot in each base.

[Dranak]

However newly build planes default to starter weapons, so you have to rearm them (via the menu in base) with upgraded weapons. Weapon upgrades are pretty lackluster in air combat. For example going from Avalanche Torpedos to Alenium Torpedos takes you from two Foxtrots needed to down a Scout to two Foxtrots needed to down a Scout. It does however let you kill a Light Scout with a single Foxtrot.

I build 3 Foxtrots per base right out the gate, and then don't build another plane until Feb (assuming a there's long enough between updates for me to get that far) because Foxtrots are just that good. I actually decommission the two starting Condors to save on space when I'm able to build Foxtrots number 5 & 6.

[Ishantil]

All excellent points, Dranak.

I had not considered the cost of building that many foxtrots, but I suppose if one considers that a Foxtrot is only $50K more than a shiny new F-17...

[rynait]

Hello dranak...

sounds like a newbie tactic. yes you can manually do air combat maneuvers.

at each of my base(s) aircraft complements is 1 condor and 2 foxtrots.

weapon combat that i do with alien ships.....

light scouts, [early] 1 waste missle *due to alien's avoidance maneuvrs*, 3 sidewinders; [foxtrot] 1 waste missle, 2 avalanche or 1 alienium avalanche.

normal scouts [early] 4 sidewinders plus cannon work; [foxtrot] 4 avalanche or 3 alenium avalanche.

fighters [early] let them have free run; [foxtrot] 1 condor bait,1 waste missle, 1 either avalanche.

Corvette, [early] have not seen them popping that early; [foxtrot] 4 avalanches, or 3 alenium avalanches.

scout with 2 escort [early] avoid them [foxtrot] 1 condor (bait and attack last), 2 waste missles, 6 avalanches or 5 alenium avalanches. (will take light damage)

corvette with 2 escort [foxtrot] 1 condor (bait and attack last), 2 waste missles, 6 alenium avalanches. [noted: not have early-avalanches to count, assume is 12] (with alienium missles, still take light damage)

In some version, there are foxtrot with 4 heavy hardpoints (the version that don't have 4 hardpoint foxtrot; those can be modded). the count above remains the same.... until future version' air combat changes. [hint: I am at ver 19.6]

R

Edited August 10, 2013 by rynait
update count based on 19.6 hf2

[Dranak]

I understand you can do manual control of aircraft (and do) there's just 0 reason to use Condors or Corsairs, as there is no UFO they can engage more safely and efficiently than a Foxtrot can. Foxtrots have superior speed, range, damage output, engagement range, and cost (if one considers the cost of upgraded weapons) to Condors/Corsairs.

I'm not really sure what that block of text is trying to say, but some of it is flat wrong (2 Avalanches is not enough to down a Scout).

It's not really a hint to say that in V18 Foxtrots have 4 hardpoints, and are even more hilariously overpowered than in 19.6

[ViniJones]

I agree completely with Dranak here. I dont need anything other than migs until feb, but I usually have a couple marauders then.

I tend to build more than 3 migs per base though, 4-5 is more like it.

While a condor can solo a light scout in the beginning its only 100km/h faster than it, which means it flies over the sea or just escapes ocasionally. Migs speed is unmatched until feb.

I cant stress enough how useless a Corsair is, skip it.

Try not to avoid escorted alien squadrons, they tend to start terror missions or bases. Send one wave of migs to clear the fighters, then another wave to down the main craft. Also any UFO you let by decreases your income(as if not missing out on the cash from the crashsite wasnt enough).

As for my kill table:

Until I reach alenium explosives its 2 migs against either light or normal scout.

With alenium torpedoes I go:

light scout - 1mig (shoot 1 torpedo, wait for it to dodge, then shoot the other one...???... profit)

scout - 2migs

corvette - 2 migs

landing ship - 3 migs

After that you get plasma torpedoes so you reduce the... you get my meaning.

Edited August 10, 2013 by ViniJones

[Ishantil]

I think I might try this.

[ViniJones]

I think I might try this.

Do try it, the increased price versus the 1500 to 2500 speed increase is too good to pass up. You ll need workshops anyway, so why not build them earlier and start pumping out migs.

[cody522]

Thanks for the tips guys, very useful.

[Dranak]

Do try it, the increased price versus the 1500 to 2500 speed increase is too good to pass up. You ll need workshops anyway, so why not build them earlier and start pumping out migs.

I normally sit on one workshop until I'm almost done building Migs, then start adding on. It might even be worth going with just 2 Migs per base until Corvettes show up if you want to invest a bit in ground combat earlier.

Edit: I know two Migs with Alenium torps kills a corvette, but they if I built the extra hangars/Migs then, they should still be out in time for landing ships to start showing up.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Dranak

[ViniJones]

Im not entirely sure what difficulty affects, except the GC hp of aliens... but Im currently on:

2bases

10 hangars (8migs 2 charlies)

3 workshops

2 labs

Just finished a crashsite 41.

and have all the 16 soldiers geared in wolf waiting for the landing ships. (but lets not go into GC in this thread)

I am by no means implying that it wouldnt work with less migs...

It just seems to me that if I reduced the amount the jets, UFOs would escape to space or sneak in a base or a terror mission.

(I get like 2-3 light scouts and 1-2 corvettes with and without escorts per wave now)

[rynait]

Hello Dranak,

maybe you are right with the normal scout, the [] is indicator to when I have the new toy... I have clean forgotten how many missle/torp that I needed to down the normal scouts. but do recall only needed one foxtrot (that is with 4 hardpoints) or two foxtrots with 2 hardpoints.

perhaps later re-try with 3 normal avalanche... shrugs ... I send 1 foxtrot out to treat that kind of a wart.

R

[ViniJones]

I believe that a regular scout requires 4 avalanches 3 alenium torpedoes or 2 plasma torpedoes to get shot down.

[Dranak]

I believe that a regular scout requires 4 avalanches 3 alenium torpedoes or 2 plasma torpedoes to get shot down.

That sounds right. And the idea behind two Migs per base would be that you have enough firepower to down any one ship with a single pass, or escorted ships in two passes (same as with 3 Migs), but obviously you have slightly less ability to respond to a higher number of contacts. I may play with it next build just to see how it goes.

And currently difficulty levels only affect alien HP in ground combat.

[rynait]

updated post #5.

checked xml and

with both time incidents, played existing with alienium missles and re-started a new game play.

rest of the time progression-advancement plays... I leave it to suprise.. but at least newbie can guess the "grief" progression.

R

[Dranak]

It's been a while, but I believe it's either 6 or 8 Avalanches to down a corvette. I think it's 6, but I won't have game access to check until Tuesday.

[ViniJones]

Avalanche to alenium is a 33 percent increase, that means if 4 alenium is enough, 6 avalanche is enough aswell.