Max's Grease Pit (Vehicle custom jobs are our speciality!)

[Ishantil]

I like the TOW missiles and the smoke launcher. Sounds realistic for a small scout car, really.

And I will be happy to test it out!

[EchoFourDelta]

The ambulance module seems like it would just add a completely new twist to things, in a really cool way. The TOW missile seems like it'd extend the Hunter's usefulness a little further into the game's timeline, too.

Smoke would probably be the coolest, though, if you're actually using it as a scout vehicle, and for screening friendly troops.

As to the balance, I'd have to agree; the little rockets would definitely benefit from a little boost. Accuracy would probably make more sense, given their small size, and would keep them from encroaching too much on the man-portable systems.

[SteelSoldier]

I agree with the accuracy boost on the microrockets, I have tried to using them and they are really inefficient at the moment.

Would also be interesting to remove the burst and just make it snap, to normal shot, but with reduced TU, you would still get the feel that you can use the rocket launcher multiple times because you 4 rockets ready.

[EchoFourDelta]

The more I think about it, the cooler I think the concept of a mobile ambulance scout car is. Self-supporting with its weapon, quick to get into position, and bulky enough that you can shield an injured soldier with it long enough to stick some bandaids on. It doesn't obviate your troops carrying medical equipment, and it could never replace their versatility, on top of they're not exactly going to fit inside a UFO or building. I'd say there's room for both. If you can do multiple iterations of a vehicle, perhaps having one that's a medical wagon, one with smoke, and one with the TOW would be cool.

[Ishantil]

Wait...modular equipment packages!?!? That would never work.

[EchoFourDelta]

Nah, like...

Like now, how we have one model of each vehicle. Say with the mod we'd have an entity in-game that's a Hunter with the TOW missile and a gun system, another Hunter with a gun system and the medical payload. That sort of idea.

Not one vehicle with things getting swapped around, but you can build Hunter-X, Hunter-Y, Hunter-Z.

[Ishantil]

I wish that vehicles could be equipped like soldiers, with various hardpoints. New engines when the come out, armor upgrades, gun selection...god, that would be awesome.

[Max_Caine]

It is actually possible to create new variants on each vehicle with only one secondary weapon. However, the game would require you to select that secondary weapon from the garage screen. You could in fact mould each variant to reflect the particular use you had for it. Which is sort-of what I'd like to do, once I have a suitible range of secondary weapons up and running for the Big Three.

[Ishantil]

Now that 19.7 is out, what are your thoughts on it, as far as vehicles go, Max?

[Max_Caine]

It's a big ol' change to vehicles. It's not how I'd like to to have gone - my preference is for a blend of HP, armour and AP to create variation. As it is, it seems that each vehicle is simply an upgrade on the last rather than being unique which is a shame because that means as a player I either decommission old vehicles or retire them out to outstations rather than think "hmm... which one should I pick for this mission?". However, I will work with the changes, rather than rail against them. First thing I'm going to do is spend the weekend playing the crap outta 19.7, to get a feel for the changes to research as well as vehicles. That will inform me how I should proceed with each vehicle as well as what changes I might make to the secondary weapons, as the new primary weapons are a hella more powerful (from the xml, they honestly feel more like a "main gun").

EDIT: The changes essentially mean that I have to go back to scratch with pretty much everythign I have done so far. But this is a good thing! It means the devs have listened.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Max_Caine

[SteelSoldier]

I don´t think the vehicles are entirely useless though, you can still techically leave them inside other baes for added defense, but I think your mod is particularly good in giving an actual purpose even for tanks that are supposed to be outdated, because they will have different purposes altogether.

[Ishantil]

I would like to see that each chassis has it's place, rather than as you said, the new generation is entirely replaced by the old.

I would also like to see multiple stages of each vehicle. Basically before you get the Scimitar, there should be at least one mod package to the Hunter. Enhanced armor package, better weapons, power plant upgrades, etc. There's no reason you couldn't upgrade the power plant after developing the Alenium reactor for the Scimitar. In fact, it makes sense for them to try the prototype on the Hunter first, then develop a tank based on what they've learned.

I know that there are 'bonuses' the game as far as research goes (10% damage upgrade when you capture a live alien, etc). Could there be a "mod package" research item that allows you to upgrade the hunter without replacing it with a new version using a bonus?

Here's how I'd do the various vehicles:

1. Hunter Scout Car (triggered from Alien Invasion research)

1A. Hunter Upgrade, missile launcher (triggered from Hunter research, opens up missile launcher for building)

1B. Hunter Upgrade, pulse laser (triggered from Scatter Laser research)

1C. Hunter Upgrade, enhanced armor (triggered from Jackal Armor research, bonus to Armor)

1D. Hunter Upgrade, Alenium power plant (triggered from Alenium research, bonus to TUs)

1E. Hunter Upgrade, Alenium missile launcher (triggered from Alenium explosives, automatic upgrade of rocket launcher)\

1F. Hunter Upgrade, enhances armor package II (triggers from Wolf Battle Armor research, bonus to armor)

1G. Hunter Upgrade, Plasma Cannon (triggered from x*, opens up plasma cannon for building)

2. Scimitar Light Tank (triggered from Alien Electronics research): This vehicle is constructed from scratch from all of the things learned development of the Hunter Scout Car, allowing the Scimitar to use enhanced armor developed from the Wolf Combat armor, the a new generation Alenium reactor, a Pulse Laser Cannon hooked directly to the reactor for power.

You get the idea...

Edited August 18, 2013 by Ishantil

[Max_Caine]

Right, now that I have a feel for 19.7, I've spent this afternoon today trying to get ReplaceItem to work with vehicles. Because if I could, then you could make aftermarket kits. So far, no dice. I can make upgraded versions of vehicles, but you have to build the vehicle from scratch. I'm going to keep trying, to see if I can get somewhere with it.

[Ishantil]

You are well beyond me in your modding skillz, Max. I'm hoping to learn a bit with some experimentation myself, this week. I assume adding a new vehicle isn't that big of a deal?

[Max_Caine]

Adding a new vehicle is really easy (at least, now I know how to do it it's really easy). However, upgrading that vehicle - if I knew how to do that, the world would be my mollusc of choice.

UPDATE: Oh balls. I've done something to the game and now it's gone all loopy on me. I'll do a clean re-install and start again.

[Ishantil]

I made myself a copy of all of the XML files for the game and put them aside, just in case I need to wipe them out.

[a333]

Can you create a little engineering project with an old vehicle (+optional resources) as prerequisite and new as a result? Let's say, a 4-6 manhours for refit?

Also couple of questions about manufacturing is at your mail.

[Max_Caine]

I've tried it both ways as yes, I did want to make it is as an aftermarket kit. You need a research project to unlock the manufacturing project - as far as I can tell, there's no way around that. Putting ReplaceItem in the manufactures file won't kill the game, but I don't think ReplaceItem recognises item type Vehicle as a valid input. Setting the Hunter to item type normal might work, but then the garage only recognises item type Vehicle so even if you could swap it out as a Normal item, you couldn't use it.

On the plus side, I'm now trialling to see if I can make aftermarket kits for weapons, and I think the answer is yes!

[Ishantil]

Ooooooh, weapon upgrade packages. Sweet. New optics for my lasers!

Edited August 19, 2013 by Ishantil

[Max_Caine]

I misread what a333 wrote. Use the Hunter as an item? That's possible. I believe that Sathra had problems with that. I'll see what problems he encountered, and try and learn from them.

...

As soon as Xenonauts re-installs, anyway.

[a333]

Ah, yeah.

Max, what do you use for editing the sheet xmls? my filemanager's plugin breaking in half when trying to open it (

[Max_Caine]

notepad++ or plain old notepad. I don't have Excel, so I use those.

[Ishantil]

Max: I've been using LibreOffice Calc without issue editing the files, btw. Free program. It squawks about leaving it excel format, but has worked fine for me so far. You might want to give it a try.

[a333]

Quick report.

Changes overview:

Changed the research of hunter tank so it unlocks additional manufacture project Hunter upgrades.

Added manufacture project Hunter upgrades, with the requirements of none, and StockItem() exchanged for UnlockManufacture("HunterII")

Added manufacture HunterII with requirements of Vehicle.Hunter and producing StockItem("HunterII")

How it was running:

Research unlocked both manufactures.

Manufacture Hunter upgrades unlocked advanced hunter construction successfully as well. It required free garage slot, but i think it can be omitted via messing with settings. Or not, if you prefer to think engineers need free space to tinker with machinery.

Since i've not been able to find method for locking the manufactures (LockManufacture freezes the game), you're stuck with the upgrade project available for repeating, i.e. you'll always have this supposed to be one timer upgrade as available to manufacture. Well, i guess nobody thought that manufactures will ever be needed to be locked.

Other bad news are the HunterII project completely failed to find Hunter required, despite it was standing right in under the chief's engineer's nose, finished by his hand just couple of hours ago.

So, my idea has failed miserably.

Edited August 19, 2013 by a333

[Max_Caine]

I'm pretty certain it all boils down to the item type. Because vehicles have to be of a different type than pretty much every other item except aircraft they aren't handled in the same manner by the routines.