WOT about the game...

[Mordobb]

***************** This is A V2, corrected and adjusted to V 19.4 *******************

I hope i m much more clear than V1 which was crap.

Well i bought xenonauts some month ago. I was "alfaing" and "betaing" and quite happy. Then IRL+another game + bugs drawned me away from Xenonauts.

On steam i saw there was a beta version option so i decided to try.

1th:

I hated is the new world map, night and day aren t that diferent.

Easy to mistake night for day, when you are managing various engagements and landing in nighttime (I hate night combat in this game) by mistake.

IMHO, the old radar like console (green and black) fitted better the game, and the timeframe it is supposed to occur.

2th:

The soldier are bad, are those civilians or the elite soldners of the world? Since our weaponry is inferior let those at least be good.

Missing a Supressed alien point blank twice in a row(adjacent tile) kills patience toward the game.

Its like missing a frozen person that is 1 meter of you, it can be accepted by a civilian but not on a by regular grunt.

The first armor (jackal).

Since its made of terran material, shouldn t it be free ? I mean, give it to terran forces and let them produce it "em masse", it make sense.

The managing of soldiers inside dropship is at the wrong place, it should be on the soldier arming management, not in the ship management tab. It make wayyyy more sense that way.

The management of wounded soldiers is also bad, it should appear in the arming management tab.

Put that information there (change the color of the soldier name, put a red cross upon is portrait, whatever.) and indicate is actual HP number over is full HP, so we know how much he is wounded for game purpose.

Maybe stats should be decreased in % of the wound, so player wouldn t jeopardize so much their wounded ? But thats very optional.

The role sistem:

Good idea bad implementation.

Modders done it right, why not adopt ?

Training.

I know it will come back, but i hope it has something similar to:

Training specific skill up. Higher the skill higher the time to improve.

fictional example:

Throwing nade 45 to 46 1 day; 65 to 66 2 weeks. Max skill stat achievable via training ex:75

3th:

There should be an economy tab.

Right now its muddy clear, i had to remember i am not allowed to waste all my funds looking at numbers here and there.

Imagine a new player. Consolidate all Economical info in one tab.

4th:

Aerial combat.

I know the icons are just representative. But Right now the weapon range / plane size is too weird, looks like missile can travel only a hundred meters, and cannons max range is pissing distance.

5th

the main part ground combat.

Alien shoot walls cause they see you trought it, and don t aknowledge them, so freak up the smoke grenade concept.

Weapons clip not reloading between missions: pistol and shotguns, others seem alright.

The 2 above are beta problems, so things this caliber are expected.

Lack of weaponry diversity:

Submachine gun for CQC would be a nice addition, Shoot like machine gun , low acuracy (for gaming purpose)

Anti material snipping. Slow but extremely powerfull shot (ie: Move or shoot) would also be nice.

Right now the xenonauts weaponry looks like a USA/NATO Branch, no wonder the RUSSIAN/Varsovian pact dislike you.

An AK74 to balance the M16 would be nice:

Full auto instead of 3rb,

Greater damage, lesser range.

A Desert eagle to appease the Jews:

.50 caliber, 7 round, slow fire, absurd damage, can only be used with both hands. (yeah i know some freaks can use it 1 handed).

Variance in ammo would be also cool.

Normal

Piercing (high penetration low damage)

Mecury filled (Low penetration high damage)

But maybe this require a soaking sistem and i don t know if its in the code.

Problem:

Since our soldiers are miope, long range shooting don t exist.

So, even being bad at shooting, i have yet to waste an entire clip of firearms even in a terror site. With laser things go faster cause clip size is shrunk.

Fact is:

Missiles and nades are much more eficient and so, used.

something must be adjusted

A 3rd stance: lying down, would also be nice, increased aim, increased cover, waste a lot of TU to get up and start moving.

Right now smoke bombs are useless, aliens shoot trought it as daylight, probably due to the "see throught wall bug", but i already sayd that didn t i.. must be pissed at trying it and get shot just fine.

Shooting times are unbalanced, 3rb should be must faster, at least as fast than snap shot as they are totally deprived of accuracy, or it should have its own snap/aimed/etc.

Right now Spray and Pray is only an option when you don t have option: Machinegun.

Daylight Sight range and shooting range:

Right now daylight sighting range is too short, it could be doubled. Seeing the terrain don t mean seeing the ennemy, but if it it means it because of engine, then at least increase it 50%.

So we can have firefight at more than 20 paces.

Right now it feels a duel of blind peoples, close range, everybody misses. A hit is an event to be comented at the pub for a week.

Nighsight:

Nightsight range is also wrong. This appear when you use Flares, flares drop at the edge of your sighting range and dont increase it. So why the hell bother with them.

Right now they are more a placebo than anything.

Or you make them increase the sight range for 3 or 4 tiles beyond the actual sight range( would say 3 becauseof the brightness), or you inverse the process (decrease our actual sight) so they become usefull.

6th:

Interface.

Well, the actuall implementation of the Hidden movement is crap at least at 1080P

It creates a rectangle in the middle of the screen. You can t see what your soldiers see, but sometimes you can see what they can t (as it doesn t fill all the combat screen)...

Beyond that, in this version when the "hidden movement screen disapear" your still frozen until the engine do some more stuff and free you.

All in all its useless and enerving.

i would suggest, since its beta, remove it altogheter.

Shield have come back!! i m happy !!!

Edited July 17, 2013 by Mordobb

[Max_Caine]

Mordobb, I had some difficulty understanding every point you made, so to help the developers I've boiled down your points to their essentials.

1) You don't like the new map because you can't see the difference between day and night.

1a) You don't like the new map because art.

2) You don't like how you can miss at point blank range. (What is point blank range? - 1 tile? 2 tiles?)

2a) You want Jackal armour to be free because fluff/lore reasons.

2b) You want dropship troop management to exist entirely in the equipment screen

2c) The equipment screen is bad because you can't see the actual HP status of the solider.

2d) The role system is bad because no particular reason given.

2e) You are certain training will return to the game but you fear training.

2eA) You want training for each new weapon type.

2eB) You want medical training.

2eC) You want training for EVERYTHING!

3) There should be an economy tab

4) Either aircraft size is shrunk or weapon size is augmented.

4a) A missile that cannot hit a target two plane lengths away is bad.

5) There are bugs in GC

5a) Aliens can shoot through walls

5b) Weapons don't reload inbetween missions

5c) You want more guns than the five types on offer.

5d) Aliens can shoot through smoke.

5e) You want bursts shots to cost the same APs as snap shots because they are unbalanced.

5fA) Grenades are bad because you cannot throw a grenade over: a building, a car, a solider, a solider with a combat shield,.

5fB) Grenades are bad because you cannot: roll grenades, lob grenades.

5g) You think it's bad that a solider standing 1 tile away from a solider kneeling cannot hit the kneeling solider.

5hA) You don't like the sight ranges for soliders

5hB) Guns are water pistols

5hC) You can see too far in night missions.

5hD) Flares are useless due to short sight range.

5i) You think shotguns are useless because they don't do enough damage and are inaccurate

5jA) You want to know why there isn't a prone stance

5jB) You believe kneeling doesn't grant any bonus to-hit.

6) You don't like the way the hidden movement screen is implemented because you can't see what's in sight range

6A) And because you have to wait too long until your turn.

Just for reference, which version are you playing?

Edited July 16, 2013 by Max_Caine

[Snozy]

I dont like soliders. i better like Operatives hehehehe!

[lightgemini]

Is this another case of misunderstanding what Beta is and what is not?

Many of the above points are still pending for fixing/balancing and dont represent the final product.

And theres still some mayor improvements down the road, like a new UI.

Many of the points are true and needs fixing but some others are not,they arent "bad design" at all but simple faithfullness to the original XCOM, with all its glory and flaws. Like the sight range, a case not of horrible choices but a result of staying true to the OG feeling. It can be changed and have a long range high precision firefights if you like.

And others are wrong, like the stances thing. Crouching does give you 20% more accuracy. Cover and other situations can affect the % to hit and look like you are getting no bonus but its not true.

Give yourself more time to play, its not the shiny thing we all want to have right now but you need to play more and learn the mechanics better so you can nail down what is exactly wrong and expose your ideas on how it should be improved. Devs do listen and take into consideration ideas to further improve the game.

[Mordobb]

Is this another case of misunderstanding what Beta is and what is not?

Many of the above points are still pending for fixing/balancing and dont represent the final product.

And theres still some mayor improvements down the road, like a new UI.

Many of the points are true and needs fixing but some others are not,they arent "bad design" at all but simple faithfullness to the original XCOM, with all its glory and flaws. Like the sight range, a case not of horrible choices but a result of staying true to the OG feeling. It can be changed and have a long range high precision firefights if you like.

And others are wrong, like the stances thing. Crouching does give you 20% more accuracy. Cover and other situations can affect the % to hit and look like you are getting no bonus but its not true.

Give yourself more time to play, its not the shiny thing we all want to have right now but you need to play more and learn the mechanics better so you can nail down what is exactly wrong and expose your ideas on how it should be improved. Devs do listen and take into consideration ideas to further improve the game.

No its not a misunderstanding about BETA or NON BETA.

Its about the poor quality of some choices, being it the engine cullprit or not.

As for remaining true to the UE,TFTD etc..i digress about choosing features that make no more sense and are there only due to tecnical limitations of its time. This sound like bad excuse for doing a wrong move.

As for cover then its only a bug ? Because when i crouched and checked i saw no accuracy increase, true i haven t looked with all weapons.

If the designers are planning features they better do an intention list. Cause right now, beta feels like a debug, adjust and realease. I had more hopes in alfa, and since it hadnt been done in Alfa, i doubt it will be done in beta.

I have played enought, before going away and now, to know i must way more, for features to come in and bug to be rooted, i will wait for next version, this one has given me what it had to give.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Mordobb

[Name]

Mordobb that just hurts! Poor quality. *butIdigress.

Can you specify what you are having problems with like say amending/approves Max_Caines analysis because I also find this hard to understand.

[Mordobb]

Mordobb, I had some difficulty understanding every point you made, so to help the developers I've boiled down your points to their essentials.

1) You don't like the new map because you can't see the difference between day and night.

1a) You don't like the new map because art.

2) You don't like how you can miss at point blank range. (What is point blank range? - 1 tile? 2 tiles?)

2a) You want Jackal armour to be free because fluff/lore reasons.

2b) You want dropship troop management to exist entirely in the equipment screen

2c) The equipment screen is bad because you can't see the actual HP status of the solider.

2d) The role system is bad because no particular reason given.

2e) You are certain training will return to the game but you fear training.

2eA) You want training for each new weapon type.

2eB) You want medical training.

2eC) You want training for EVERYTHING!

3) There should be an economy tab

4) Either aircraft size is shrunk or weapon size is augmented.

4a) A missile that cannot hit a target two plane lengths away is bad.

5) There are bugs in GC

5a) Aliens can shoot through walls

5b) Weapons don't reload inbetween missions

5c) You want more guns than the five types on offer.

5d) Aliens can shoot through smoke.

5e) You want bursts shots to cost the same APs as snap shots because they are unbalanced.

5fA) Grenades are bad because you cannot throw a grenade over: a building, a car, a solider, a solider with a combat shield,.

5fB) Grenades are bad because you cannot: roll grenades, lob grenades.

5g) You think it's bad that a solider standing 1 tile away from a solider kneeling cannot hit the kneeling solider.

5hA) You don't like the sight ranges for soliders

5hB) Guns are water pistols

5hC) You can see too far in night missions.

5hD) Flares are useless due to short sight range.

5i) You think shotguns are useless because they don't do enough damage and are inaccurate

5jA) You want to know why there isn't a prone stance

5jB) You believe kneeling doesn't grant any bonus to-hit.

6) You don't like the way the hidden movement screen is implemented because you can't see what's in sight range

6A) And because you have to wait too long until your turn.

Just for reference, which version are you playing?

1) Correct, i landed a ship in night mission because theres not enought contrast between night and day.

1a) Old art was more climatic and true to timeline.

2) Point blank= 1 tile. Soldiers miss to much at point blank.

2a) I like things to make a bit of sense. One would think that entirely terrestrian TECH would be distributed among regions sustaining the organization and would be mass produced, and given free to Xenonauts org.

2d) Actual Role sistem seems incomplete, it must be expanded if there s no bug. By the way Modders have already expanded it and it works, just incorporate the mod.

2ec)About Soldiers:

For elite Soldiers their stats are weak.

For regular soldiers they are too expansive for the ingame cash flow given.

4a) The proportions used in the Last arerial combat iteration were reasonable, the new ones aren t.

5a) Aliens don t shoot trought, walls they see trought walls and start shooting at them.

5b) Pistol, Shotgun don t reload between misisons

5c) Game lacking more weaponry that would bring more gameplay choices.

5d) Alien can see trought smoke so smoke grenades are useless

5fa) Yes badly implemented.

5g) Totally wrong. A standing soldier shooting over a prone soldier close to it (near tile) shouldn t hit it. Same for grenade.

5thX) Sight distance are unbalanced between night and day, some weapon are unbalanced, yes i wish there was a prone stance as other games did.

6) The way the "hidden movement" screen was on older version was good now its not.

6a) Read again.

beta Steam version as said.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Mordobb

[Max_Caine]

Thank-you for your clarifications, you can see where I had some difficulty. There are 2 beta Steam versions. v18, considered stable enough to play and the experimental versions (which is now currently at 19.4). If you've been trying out the Steam version, given that v18 has the orginal map you must be playing v19.x which is interesting given that v19.4 recently overhauled the grenade throwing system. I have just played Xenonauts, first mission with the starting soliders. I tried to replicate what you experienced and while I found that a building wall blocked grenades 100% unlike your experience I could throw them over cars, other small props and soliders with or without combat shields. I also found a standing solider could shoot over a kneeling soldier next to him without hurting the solider, 100% of the time.

[Mordobb]

Thank-you for your clarifications, you can see where I had some difficulty. There are 2 beta Steam versions. v18, considered stable enough to play and the experimental versions (which is now currently at 19.4). If you've been trying out the Steam version, given that v18 has the orginal map you must be playing v19.x which is interesting given that v19.4 recently overhauled the grenade throwing system. I have just played Xenonauts, first mission with the starting soliders. I tried to replicate what you experienced and while I found that a building wall blocked grenades 100% unlike your experience I could throw them over cars, other small props and soliders with or without combat shields. I also found a standing solider could shoot over a kneeling soldier next to him without hurting the solider, 100% of the time.

I am playing the experimental version V19 something.

Let me relate my experience: NADE

1)

Night time: Shield guy kneeled, standing soldier behing him throw flares (i consider the system is the same) the flare stop at the back head of the shield soldier.

2)

Night time, big snow truck: soldier seen the alien took cover and tried to throw a nade over it, nade stuck on the truck(they dont bounce, even if) explode.

3)

Some industrial map (the one with the parking lot with cars on the left of chopper with a highway at the left of the map providing the only entrance to the industry park/lot/whatever. There s a delivery kind of car try to lob over the car to stun (i m close to the car(adjacent tile)) an Alien that is behind grenade stuck on the car and explode on me.

4) UFO door:

Shield guy kneeled, shotgun guy standing behind him (adjacent tile oposed to door direction, looking toward door).

Shield guy open door, shotguy guy grab a stunning gas grenade kneeled or standing i am unable to throw a grenade, make a sidestep to try to throw, reaction fire, shotgun guy dies, nade explode on the team.

If you are able to shoot above the head of the kneeled shield guy you should be able to throw (lob) a nade. If not lob, roll it (very short range).

Those are no-no situations, game killer, its the deference between a game that will be replayed, or where people may not even get to the end.

Now all those account could be given to the inaptitude of the soldier, but since there s no Throwing skills we don t know if they are good or not, we don t know if we can trust them or not, if i knew the soldier war a bad thrower i wouldn t have tasked him with throwing knowing the risks involved.

When the game doesn t give us enought informations such blunder shouldn t occur because those are trivial tasks. Make the grenade land far from its objective, but do not blunder the action this way.

Thats where, for me, training should enter, when we have information.

Now shooting:

UFO door: Shield guy kneeled, shotgun guy standing behind it (as NADE scenario 4) shield guy open door, alien standing 2 tiles in front of it not cover, shotgun guy shoot (66 or 67 accuracy, ok such a guy wouldn t be acepted even as a regular in any half serious army, much less "elite", when i talk about incoherence i talk about such) he shot the head of the shield guy....

Disheartening.

UFO door: (exact as above)

Shield guy shoot the alien twice with his pistol, alien subdued, Shotgun guy (same as above) get to the side (adjacent tile) of the alien, shoot maximizing aiming...miss, shoot normal aiming...miss

I close the game...really.

Now i may have been unlucky...yes. Have i tried various shot over shoulder again, no, i know i haven t signed for a finished game, but if it didn t work before, and the behavior seems the same in the present version, why would i try again ? i m loading a mission and will try again.

[Max_Caine]

The version you are playing is listed in the version numberon the game launcher,. It is in the upper right-hand corner.

[Mordobb]

Ok i played the mission...

So i will update info.

MAX_CAINE.

You seem to be right, i played the mission and none of the issues of at the ufo door happened. I must have played, even doing the procedure to play the experimental version 19.X,the 18.X version. Steam gave me 2 update today and some updating time, didn t check witch game.

Version played in this post 19.4.

So my complains are invalid, much more fun and tactically interesting.

What i observed and don t know how to classify:

Sometimes some soldiers don t get back all their TU point from one turn to another, so i couldn t throw a nade above something or someone due to lack of TU, is that normal ? Is that a feature for some reason or a bug ? Fear factor ? It doesn t seem exhaustion as my soldier was crouched behind the shield men and just shooted once the previous turn, and a lot of soldiers runned full TU and didn t experiment a loss of TU the following turn.

UFO door: (always it)

The UFO door close itself each turn, so i can t determine if aliens are allowed real oportunity too shoot at us or not (door close before they shoot, and them shooting even when door is closed, walls in front) due to the "Hidden (in your face) movement" screen. this could generate an unfair advantage to us.

Minor bug UFO door:

When i open the ufo door, some soldier shooting line end at the UFO door (red dot), even if it is open, but the game accept to shoot trought and alien or material are damaged.

Well i should update first post to let only the relevant issues.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Mordobb

[Max_Caine]

The only time a solider should not get back all their APs is if they had been suppressed. If your solider is not suppressed, that's a bug. The UFO door is in discussion. I will direct you to where it is being discussed: here is the link.

[Mytheos]

Smoke grenades in 19-4 seem a little less effective, might just be the added Alien Stats.

But they still work fine, you just have to bring a ton and not be scared to use 2 between you and an Alien.

I'm up to carrying 4-6 on every Soldier.

Took like 8-10 Missions before an Alien even hit me, I dont use armor, or shields.

[Mordobb]

The only time a solider should not get back all their APs is if they had been suppressed. If your solider is not suppressed, that's a bug. The UFO door is in discussion. I will direct you to where it is being discussed: here is the link.

Then the lack of full TU from a round to another is a BUG cause nobody appeared as suppressed, be it they weren t suppressed, be it their suppressed status did not appear.

[Mordobb]

Smoke grenades in 19-4 seem a little less effective, might just be the added Alien Stats.

But they still work fine, you just have to bring a ton and not be scared to use 2 between you and an Alien.

I'm up to carrying 4-6 on every Soldier.

Took like 8-10 Missions before an Alien even hit me, I dont use armor, or shields.

Um my experience with smoke grenade was, that even throwing 2, it had no effect at all. Franckly it shouldn t be that way, especially with the low sighter Sibillian. This render their use too costly, other strategies are adopted and seem to work to avoid the use of smoke grenade.

[Mytheos]

Um my experience with smoke grenade was, that even throwing 2, it had no effect at all. Franckly it shouldn t be that way, especially with the low sighter Sibillian. This render their use too costly, other strategies are adopted and seem to work to avoid the use of smoke grenade.

It "seems" smoke grenades work as an accuracy reducer for the Aliens, they only need to look "through" the smoke, your units dont need to stand in the smoke.

If their accuracy is low enough they wont bother to fire at you, and normally retreat, which allows you to move slowly through the smoke to respot them, or to toss another ahead of you as you advance.

If you use them correctly I promise you they do work, but try to keep your soldiers at max range (When they stop after spotting them, dont move closer, or step back a square and setup a gun line after suppressing them)

Soldiers have a rather large inventory, and carrying 5-6 smoke grenades per solider might seem excessive, but you never know when you might need to run back to back missions before a resupply.

Besides what else are you carrying that you feel 5 slots is excessive? If those 5 slots save lives, I feel they are more than worth it.

[Mordobb]

It "seems" smoke grenades work as an accuracy reducer for the Aliens, they only need to look "through" the smoke, your units dont need to stand in the smoke.

If their accuracy is low enough they wont bother to fire at you, and normally retreat, which allows you to move slowly through the smoke to respot them, or to toss another ahead of you as you advance.

If you use them correctly I promise you they do work, but try to keep your soldiers at max range (When they stop after spotting them, dont move closer, or step back a square and setup a gun line after suppressing them)

Soldiers have a rather large inventory, and carrying 5-6 smoke grenades per solider might seem excessive, but you never know when you might need to run back to back missions before a resupply.

Besides what else are you carrying that you feel 5 slots is excessive? If those 5 slots save lives, I feel they are more than worth it.

The problem is called weight. It reduce TU so it reduce your survavival chances.

I usually don t use smoke because i m at max range, or use fast soldiers to scout.

When i tryed to use smoke it was to supress alien vision on specific situation. I found that advancing slower was as efective and less cumbersome.

Then i tried to negate fire to aliens when a soldier was in bad situation and another could throw a nade to no avail. so i decided to do without them, and so far they proved as not needed.

[Mytheos]

@Mordobb

You dont take a TU penalty until you see red on the TU bar. You also want to use max weight 1 unit less than what causes a TU penalty so that you can increase Str on every mission. ( I think its 80% of max weight = +Str)

Therefore there is no reason NOT to bring along 3-6 smoke grenades per soldier, based on their STR, so rookies might bring 2-3 and higher ranked soldiers can bring 5-6.

[Mordobb]

@Mordobb

You dont take a TU penalty until you see red on the TU bar. You also want to use max weight 1 unit less than what causes a TU penalty so that you can increase Str on every mission. ( I think its 80% of max weight = +Str)

Therefore there is no reason NOT to bring along 3-6 smoke grenades per soldier, based on their STR, so rookies might bring 2-3 and higher ranked soldiers can bring 5-6.

I well know that, but others grenades are more usefull so i load my soldiers with what usefull.

My soldiers never standed in the smoke, neither the alien, the smoke must be between them.

Smoke bomb are designed to work with one throw, to deny snipers vision or other shooters vision, they are for emergency situation. If its 2 throw they are a waste, period.

On the strenght factor, the strenght of my soldier that carry RPG and ammo grows even if i am a little red on the bar.

[Mytheos]

I well know that, but others grenades are more usefull so i load my soldiers with what usefull.

My soldiers never standed in the smoke, neither the alien, the smoke must be between them.

Smoke bomb are designed to work with one throw, to deny snipers vision or other shooters vision, they are for emergency situation. If its 2 throw they are a waste, period.

On the strenght factor, the strenght of my soldier that carry RPG and ammo grows even if i am a little red on the bar.

Well play as you like, and see things as you like.

But having 5 smoke grenades seems more valuable to me than 5 of any other grenade....especially since I can have 4 of every other kind anyways.

And although I dont KNOW, if you do please let me know I have been asking...smoke from what I can tell lowers accuracy of Aliens...and it seems like if they get to a point they have a low enough (0%?) chance to hit you, they dont even fire.

Yes this will take 2 smoke grenades at times, but at 4-5 per soldier, who cares?

I dont know what you are basing the "Designed" statement on, maybe real life?

Who cares about real life, I care about game mechanics, and how things in the game relate and work.

If they hurt your immersion or playstyle preference that has little to do with calling them a Waste if you have to throw 2.

You still have to throw multiple grenades, save for maybe a Flash to accomplish it's purpose in the game, generally.

So why are you so against having to use 2 smoke, when you have to often use multiple grenades to take out cover/kill some enemies, multiple stun grenades or flash to knock an enemy out?

Its just the way the game works, and you can use them or not, but for what the are designed to do, they work wonderfully, but you do have to toss them around like Candy a bit more since the Aliens have better stats now.

[Mordobb]

Well play as you like, and see things as you like.

But having 5 smoke grenades seems more valuable to me than 5 of any other grenade....especially since I can have 4 of every other kind anyways.

And although I dont KNOW, if you do please let me know I have been asking...smoke from what I can tell lowers accuracy of Aliens...and it seems like if they get to a point they have a low enough (0%?) chance to hit you, they dont even fire.

Yes this will take 2 smoke grenades at times, but at 4-5 per soldier, who cares?

I dont know what you are basing the "Designed" statement on, maybe real life?

Who cares about real life, I care about game mechanics, and how things in the game relate and work.

If they hurt your immersion or playstyle preference that has little to do with calling them a Waste if you have to throw 2.

You still have to throw multiple grenades, save for maybe a Flash to accomplish it's purpose in the game, generally.

So why are you so against having to use 2 smoke, when you have to often use multiple grenades to take out cover/kill some enemies, multiple stun grenades or flash to knock an enemy out?

Its just the way the game works, and you can use them or not, but for what the are designed to do, they work wonderfully, but you do have to toss them around like Candy a bit more since the Aliens have better stats now.

Just a question what setting are you playing on ?

Smoke should deny vision not lower accuracy.

And i suppose it works as it does by the simple bug of alien seeing trought walls.

Or maybe you are correct, aliens have acurracy lowered by walls and smoke grenade, that would explain why they shoot at you trought walls with no windows.

LSS: They work as they do because of a bug.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Mordobb

[Mytheos]

I play on Normal, which is very against my taste, but since I am doing the 19-4 version, and beta testing, going above normal wouldnt be very helpful.

Also I dont think the difficulty levels have had much work done on them, so I dont think there is as much difference now as there will be eventually.

I began with the assumption they worked similar to XCOM, in that they lowered the Aliens sight ranges...basically, in XCOM its a bit more complicated than just that but overall works out that way.

In Xeno though, I experienced 1 smoke being enough at first, but when the Aliens had increased Stats (Better accuracy) I found that 1 wasnt enough in most cases, and it seems like Aliens with higher accuracy take more.

Which I also noticed to a degree pre-19-4 as the Sniper Aliens seemed to fire through a single smoke cloud, their stats had to be higher than normal, even before 19-4 though because they had crazy reaction fire as well.

And on a side note, I have not had Aliens shoot through a wall at me yet...or rather their shots dont go through walls...and generally I only notice it when they are in a UFO.

I can see them in a UFO due to the bug so I assume thats mostly why they are firing at me.

So again I dont know for fact, but from what I have seen, I believe they work by lowering accuracy, it seems to have to do with # of smoke tiles they look through as well as density.

So if their accuracy is low enough they retreat away from you instead of staying in cover and fighting, or if they cant make it to alternative cover they sometimes do the stand/sit thing.

Which retreating away from you is good, as it makes you have to move through the smoke to re-spot them...the smoke does provide you a bonus to not being reaction shot in the face though it seems.

But it does require you to move forward, spot them, and either suppress them, or toss another smoke.

Early game its hard to take them out behind cover and their constant retreating can cause you to burn through smoke grenades, so I fell like the AI is doing the right thing, and giving itself at least a chance to reaction shoot you in the face.

[Mordobb]

I play on Normal, which is very against my taste, but since I am doing the 19-4 version, and beta testing, going above normal wouldnt be very helpful.

Also I dont think the difficulty levels have had much work done on them, so I dont think there is as much difference now as there will be eventually.

I began with the assumption they worked similar to XCOM, in that they lowered the Aliens sight ranges...basically, in XCOM its a bit more complicated than just that but overall works out that way.

In Xeno though, I experienced 1 smoke being enough at first, but when the Aliens had increased Stats (Better accuracy) I found that 1 wasnt enough in most cases, and it seems like Aliens with higher accuracy take more.

Which I also noticed to a degree pre-19-4 as the Sniper Aliens seemed to fire through a single smoke cloud, their stats had to be higher than normal, even before 19-4 though because they had crazy reaction fire as well.

And on a side note, I have not had Aliens shoot through a wall at me yet...or rather their shots dont go through walls...and generally I only notice it when they are in a UFO.

I can see them in a UFO due to the bug so I assume thats mostly why they are firing at me.

So again I dont know for fact, but from what I have seen, I believe they work by lowering accuracy, it seems to have to do with # of smoke tiles they look through as well as density.

So if their accuracy is low enough they retreat away from you instead of staying in cover and fighting, or if they cant make it to alternative cover they sometimes do the stand/sit thing.

Which retreating away from you is good, as it makes you have to move through the smoke to re-spot them...the smoke does provide you a bonus to not being reaction shot in the face though it seems.

But it does require you to move forward, spot them, and either suppress them, or toss another smoke.

Early game its hard to take them out behind cover and their constant retreating can cause you to burn through smoke grenades, so I fell like the AI is doing the right thing, and giving itself at least a chance to reaction shoot you in the face.

Some dif of POV can arise by the fact that i play only insane. I know its unbalanced, and testing settings should be normal, but i find normal borring.

By what you describe, and my experience, your assumption of lowering aim seems correct.

In some game i ve seen Aliens shoot at walls i was behind. They kept shooting at the walls (some time 2 layers of walls) as if they weren t there, bringing them down trying to reach me. So walls probably just lower accuracy too.

As well as you, i too have seen aliens shooting at me from inside the UFO. The way we can see trought them also would be another strong indicator of the decreased accuracy theory.

At the beginning i thought we would see some kind of infra red vision explaining the shoot trough smoke behavior but seeing none in the description was very deceiving as it showed clearly mechanics are flawed as of now, assyncronous to the Sibilians settings (poor eyesight). How can poor eyesight see trought smoke ?

That all made the see trought smoke unacceptable.

Right now i use 2 snipers, 1 machine gunner, 1 RPGer 1 shielder, 1 shotgunner and 2 riflemens as medics.

And apart from ocasional: they see me before i see them reaction fire i feel no necessity of smoke nades cause they take too much fire oportunity.

Now as you are beta Testing i have some questions you maybe know the answer:

How does shield provide more cover ? we see the 120/120, does it simple sum to the eventual armor we have ?

Or Does it work as a first layer, that would be separate from the second layer (armor) in tun separated from a third layer (soldiers resilience and life)

How does armor work ? Does it "soak" a part of the shot ? Does it block it until armor = zero ?

Some recent events ingame made me wonder.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Mordobb

[Mytheos]

Those are all very good questions, I havent used armor much, nor have I ever used a shield.

I have heard from others that the Shield has an "angle" of protection, so that if the shot comes in from behind or from the side, it ignores the shield completely.

However I have heard people say that direct shots have also on occasion bypassed their shields causing them to die...I dont know if this was a situation of being hit by burst fire meaning the 1 hit took out the shield, and the 2nd hit hit the soldier, but to the player it would (I assume) look like the 1st hit was blocked and the 2nd hit bypassed the shield and killed their soldier.

I have also read that the shield is supposed to absorb the damage and then when the max damage is reached it is destroyed...but without looking under the hood thats hard to say for sure.

So I cant really offer more info than that.

[Mordobb]

I just played a game where i took a direct front hit (1 shot) trought the shield and the unarmored soldier took a wound. The shield was still there.

Then another absurd of this game happened, a sniper shot so astray, 2 or 3 tiles from the alien LOS, at full aimed sniper shot died.

When i tried to grab the shield (for game purpose and inspecting purpose) with a third men, the game crashed on me. I acessed the game again and this time trying to acess another inventory it crashed again.

Seems inventory acess is quite unstable.

Another question that arose. I took a wound, 18 points of life, same round i healed it for 24 displayed point of life and gained a whoop result of 2hp ? WTH !!!

I tought you were supposed to heal at max half the wound if on the same round, in this case 9HP, but 2 ?? This big bag is for band aid only ?

Edited July 20, 2013 by Mordobb