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StellarRat

Another plea to change the accuracy formula! :D

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The gun it's based on isn't a sniper rifle, it's a DMR. I'll see if I can remember/discover which rifle it is specifically, but it's not used for sniping in the traditional sense. Besides, even in game play you don't use it like a sniper would. Snipers don't go around at all like the "snipers" do in this game; thus, being able to rename roles would be nice, since I'd rather rename the "Sniper" role to "Marksman". It makes more sense.

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The gun it's based on isn't a sniper rifle, it's a DMR. I'll see if I can remember/discover which rifle it is specifically, but it's not used for sniping in the traditional sense. Besides, even in game play you don't use it like a sniper would. Snipers don't go around at all like the "snipers" do in this game; thus, being able to rename roles would be nice, since I'd rather rename the "Sniper" role to "Marksman". It makes more sense.
I agree, but I think my logic still stands.

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I never questioned your logic; I was just saying that technically it's neither a sniper rifle nor an assault rifle. It's the middle ground between the two. How that questions your logic I don't know. ;)

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I never questioned your logic; I was just saying that technically it's neither a sniper rifle nor an assault rifle. It's the middle ground between the two. How that questions your logic I don't know. ;)
I wasn't suggesting you were. It's just a "cheap" sniper rilfe, IMO then.

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What would you set sight range to with that kind of weapon range?

Default sight range is 16 now, but squad sight allows us to see beyond that with no modifier to accuracy except for the inherent weapon range and soldiers accuracy. This makes the dropoff for a weapon op if it's beyond 32 tiles. If default range was doubled (32) and they added a detection range of 16, then any soldier (in that turn during initial detection) firing beyond detection range will get hit with a negative modifier until he spots the target in question. Spotting a target can be simplified by adding extra TU's to the first shot only. If we wanted to increase detection range (beyond 16), the soldier will have to enter a "Search Mode" toggle in the UI. Any movement action doubles the TU for the soldier.

The biggest problem with accuracy is that there are no modifier's for the Target and the Shooter with the exception of heavy weapon and reduced accuracy for reaction fire ... Modifiers like ;

- target moved (walk 1-4 tiles, trot 2-8, run 9+ ... the more it moved the harder to hit)

- shooter moved (same as above)

- shooter pinned (suppressed, yeah we get less TU but the shot doesn't get modified further)

Another factor to accuracy would be Fatigue ... There is no model for that. If we run around the battle field recovering our full TU each turn it's op because we can aim fire every turn. If weapon drop offs were modeled correctly and based on a stationary shot, then there wouldn't be a problem during a real firefight when everyone is having a tough time trying to get off a good aimed shot no matter which weapon they had.

Imagine if we could only take an aimed shot every other turn? It would cost 100+ TUS but the shot will be true ... risky but true on target.

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Not a cheap sniper rifle, a designated marksman rifle. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman_rifle

Honestly, though, call it what you want.

Actually on topic:

Should being suppressed should inflict an accuracy penalty as well as a TU penalty, then? This would remove the ability for a suppressed unit to fire at full accuracy after being shot at and forced down in the previous side's turn.

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It's just a "cheap" sniper rilfe, IMO then.

Agreed ... reminds me of the G3SG1 ...

G3SG1.jpg

EDIT : Agree with Gomez too, a G3 marksman rifle ... :) ... I dunno what to think now!

G3SG1.jpg

G3SG1.jpg.033a1ae096c0f748037e40c6c4c80e

Edited by CellNav

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Agreed ... reminds me of the G3SG1 ...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2418[/ATTACH]

EDIT : Agree with Gomez too, a G3 marksman rifle ... :) ... I dunno what to think now!

Aha, I was right! I was uncertain if it was the G3, so I didn't say anything. That's a good photo of one, though, and it matches the xeno-art quite nicely. Ha, should've just googled the gun instead of relying on wikipedia's photos alone.

Technically, if it were a "stock" G3SG1, it'd still have fully automatic fire, but whatever. ;)

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Wiki : "G3SG/1: An accurized variant of the G3. The "SG" stands for Scharfsch├╝tzengewehr, or "sharpshooting rifle". The rifles were individually selected from the production line for their accuracy and then modified. A Zeiss 1.5-6x variable power telescopic sight was added using a HK claw mount attached to the receiver. The stock was extended slightly compared to the standard G3 fixed stock and comes with a heavy, dual-stage buffer and adjustable cheek rest. A special set trigger group was added for a crisp trigger pull of 1 lb. Automatic fire was retained."

If you look carefully, you'll see that it can be used with both the scope and the iron sights (if you get into close combat.) Also, it fires a full 7.62x51mm rifle round, not the cut down 7.62 mm used in the AR's (AK-47, SKS, etc...). That a much more powerful cartridge than you'd be firing from an AR (almost x2 ft. lbs), so higher damage is justified. It's also used in medium machineguns, etc...

Edited by StellarRat

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Regarding DMR versus AR, to balance you need to give them roughly similar damage and make sure the increase in accuracy for the DMR isn't too big and is offset by the increase in TUs required (which makes very perfect sense anyway). The real tradeoff should be that the DMR is far more accurate at longer ranges, meaning past the effective ingame range of the AR. The rifle then becomes more useful for CQC situations where the burst fire (at shorter ranges) is way more effective (and suppressive), while at moderate ranges the two are roughly comparable. This creates a tradeoff dilemma: both are equal at mid-range, one is clearly better at long, the other at short.

There may be other balancing issues (shields, pistols, weak AI) that keep rifles from being used fully, though.

I'm trying with the AR at 16 range and the DMR at 21 (with an additional M40 at 26 and carbine at 13). I'm liking it so far.

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Wiki : "G3SG/1: An accurized variant of the G3. The "SG" stands for Scharfsch├╝tzengewehr, or "sharpshooting rifle". The rifles were individually selected from the production line for their accuracy and then modified. A Zeiss 1.5-6x variable power telescopic sight was added using a HK claw mount attached to the receiver. The stock was extended slightly compared to the standard G3 fixed stock and comes with a heavy, dual-stage buffer and adjustable cheek rest. A special set trigger group was added for a crisp trigger pull of 1 lb. Automatic fire was retained."

If you look carefully, you'll see that it can be used with both the scope and the iron sights (if you get into close combat.) Also, it fires a full 7.62x51mm rifle round, not the cut down 7.62 mm used in the AR's (AK-47, SKS, etc...). That a much more powerful cartridge than you'd be firing from an AR (almost x2 ft. lbs), so higher damage is justified. It's also used in medium machineguns, etc...

If possible, it should be balanced with higher damage/armor penetration, accuracy, and range. Would a gigantic TU cost offset these bonuses, though? Also, would reducing the TU cost for assault rifles help make them on equal ground? Really, we should have to reload more often than we currently do, so making assault rifles cost less to fire would help that out.

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I think I see what you're saying. You mean that a sniper rifle negates cover, right? Because you can aim more precisely. That's sort of true, but so does any weapon....

Yes ... I thought I read an idea where cover would be negated (chance-to-hit-it) up to a certain distance from the shooter? The chance to hit that intervening prop would be less the closer the prop was to the shooter. Did that idea make any head way with Aaron/Chris?

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If possible, it should be balanced with higher damage/armor penetration, accuracy, and range. Would a gigantic TU cost offset these bonuses, though? Also, would reducing the TU cost for assault rifles help make them on equal ground? Really, we should have to reload more often than we currently do, so making assault rifles cost less to fire would help that out.

I would like to see the AR with a 5 round burst and less damage per round. In Vietnam, when the M16 (5.56mm)was issued, troops complained about the damage being mainly "bleeding" damage compared to the knock down power of the M14 (7.62mm).

If the AR had a lower snap-shot cost and they added a consecutive "shot-on-target" bonus (to all weapons actually) then we would experience that first shot as we do now, but the next volley would be corrected with a better hit chance.

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