Tryphikik Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Casual players will not accept old-school Xenonauts in any case. So make the game at least for true fans. I would wager a guess that it isn't just "casual players" who enjoy having their playthrough less impacted by an aerial dogfight minigame... The one connecting factor between all old-school xcom/xenonauts lovers is a love of strategy/tactics... Both of which the minigame has very little to do with. If anything having the minigame be so impactful is a new-school twist on the classic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightzy Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Losing aircraft was a game breaking feature. I'm glad it's gone. Now lets readjust income levels for balance and get on with it: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elrim Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Or maybe, if the damage pass a certain threshold, the plane is destroyed... If not, it is possible to recover it? In that way, if you want to keep you fighters, you have to dodge missiles/more damaging shot. And the alien "normal weapons" just take down the recoverable craft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderGr Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 The latest experimental release was forced on my by Steam despite setting it to Do Not Automatically update: is this a Steam thing or does the game force it to happen? I know I might sound like a stuck record but I want to be the one deciding when to upgrade. Thx If you have opted for betas you get them no matter what. The update thing only goes for the actual game. So, unless Steam changes it, you will always follow the betas you have opted into, no matter what. This could be addressed if the developers uploaded each build as a different beta. That way, you would choose the release you wanted to opt in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selvhan Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Xenonaut's plane should be like Ufo, they should be vulnerable to complete destruction to simple crash. A mission could then be triggered by this if your pilot survived. I don't think being invincible is a good idea. Air battle as always been important and should stay that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel44 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 IMO it would be better if our fighters could be destroyed, but at the same time they would be cheaper (condor might be OK at 50K, but Foxtrot should be 100K). That way we wouldnt have to spend such large % of our money on early fighters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mytheos Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Xenonaut's plane should be like Ufo, they should be vulnerable to complete destruction to simple crash. A mission could then be triggered by this if your pilot survived. I don't think being invincible is a good idea. Air battle as always been important and should stay that way. This brings an interesting idea to the table. If your planes get shot down, maybe give a %chance to if they were destroyed or not? And if they were simply shot down, maybe the Aliens might decide to land at the crash site and drop off a few troops quickly to finish off the pilot and what was left of the plane. And you would have to do a recovery mission in order to save the plane, otherwise it just disappears off the map like a crashed UFO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomorph Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 People, we know this losing fighters or not has already been discussed to exhaustion somewhere else. NOT losing fighters is a GOOD commitment in many ways, and don't think they'll pop right after in the hangar and ready to use. Because they don't. 72 hours recovery is still trouble enough that we HAVE to be careful and think about how to use them, when and where, and it's about the same as building a new one (without the cost BUT with the consequences), so please stop trying to reinvent the wheel. NOT having to spend $$$ building a new plane could be the difference between staying afloat or go on a downward spiral. It DOES NOT make the game casual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Welcome to the 23rd round in the Immortal Fighter forum boxing match. Commentators have said that losing fighters or not has already been discussed to exhaustion somewhere else now let's join the action... Sgt Xenomorph: It DOES NOT make the game casual Sgt thothkins: Does TOO. >pant, wheeze< Sgt Xenomorph: It DOES NOT make the game casual Sgt thothkins: Does TOO. >pant, wheeze< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderGr Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Welcome to the 23rd round in the Immortal Fighter forum boxing match. Commentators have said thatlosing fighters or not has already been discussed to exhaustion somewhere else now let's join the action... Sgt Xenomorph: It DOES NOT make the game casual Sgt thothkins: Does TOO. >pant, wheeze< Sgt Xenomorph: It DOES NOT make the game casual Sgt thothkins: Does TOO. >pant, wheeze< I couldn't have said it better! A salute for Sgt thothkins! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 It DOES NOT make the game casual. make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raziel1981 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Its truly a sad day for this game that the immortal plane bs made it in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 and pls fix end combat crash and inventory crash. i realy wont to test this game on insane. now it possiple if i backup saves for evade this bugs, it's not cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Went Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Unrecoverable plane crash probability can be adjusted by difficulty level. 10% on novice to 90% on "insane", for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mytheos Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 and pls fix end combat crash and inventory crash. i realy wont to test this game on insane. now it possiple if i backup saves for evade this bugs, it's not cool Yeah I think Ironman should be optional on Insane, especially as we're trying to beta test and provide feedback and we can essentially bypass save scumming anyways...its just a pain in the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mytheos Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I admit I raised an eyebrow at both the grenade TU reduction and the immortal plane thing...but realize just because something is in an experimental build doesnt mean it will see the stable build. I will try it out and reserve judgment until then...but in all reality the hardcore players are going to find loosing a plane UNACCEPTABLE and thus will hone their air combat skills to the point they wont ever loose one anyways. So it shouldnt really affect us and will really only affect casuals. I know and understand this means new players wont bother honing their skills as sharp, as they wont need to do so. I dont do ground combat missions with 0% risk even tho I can, and I use less than optimal tactics on occasion as I am currently testing on normal and I am not pressed by the game to do anywhere near my best.... I do agree that even though everything I said is valid, it still does make the game more casual...as it doesnt press you to be your best to succeed. But have faith that something will be worked out before the end, and lets help the Devs by providing feedback AND solutions if we are able. Many have done so, myself included, lets see what the response is from the Devs and maybe more details as to their reasoning. They did (Chris) state that there were various fixes not listed in the notes, there might be more ideas already in place or expected to be in place to add a different angle on things, maybe even making immortal planes fit better based on other unknown mechanics and planned changes to go along with it. Maybe the success of this game so far has made me naive, but I'll give the Devs the benefit of the doubt until a time comes I dont feel they deserve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiffex Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 The Game crashed if i have an air combat against 3 ufos at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mytheos Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Hmm... Hey hardcores give me some feedback on this idea. A possible solution to the immortal plane problem... Essentially its a 72 hour penalty for loosing a plane vs a $$$ penalty right? What if we adjusted the penalty slightly? Imagine this if you would... Players are now given the ability to request $$$/Planes from the Funding Nations. The requests take X hours/days to process and will be based on how well the Funding Nation receiving the request like you. Denied requests will result in a small reduction in points with the Funding Nation as they loose faith in your ability as a Commander. Granted requests will result in a greater reduction of points with the Funding Nation. The player must now balance the time it takes to process, along with the number of requests they send, as well as who they send them to... This would result in requests successful or not costing you time and money as well as an increased risk of loosing a Funding Nation... It spreads the money part out over time more, (You loose monthly funding) and you may loose more money overall, but at least it might keep you in the fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimdictive Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) If the Xenonauts have materials that can make a plane salvageable after spiralling half-wingless into rocky ground at 600kmph, with a quantity of munitions and fuel that would certainly explode on impact, then they really ought to be fitting in on the soldiers, too. Or do the UFOs use firecrackers as their air-to-air weapons of choice? Not to mention, the platoon of people necessary to pick up the bits of a plane - from anywhere in the world - or, feasibly, as I understand it, the bottom of the ocean, and to ship it back to base - and it's all free? Please tell me this immersion-crippling feature can be disabled? EDIT: And don't tell me they performed an "emergency landing". Please. These are fighter jets, not commercial airliners. Without their engines, they fall pretty much straight down. Edited July 6, 2013 by Zimdictive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoitessier Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Hmm...Hey hardcores give me some feedback on this idea. A possible solution to the immortal plane problem... Essentially its a 72 hour penalty for loosing a plane vs a $$$ penalty right? What if we adjusted the penalty slightly? Imagine this if you would... Players are now given the ability to request $$$/Planes from the Funding Nations. The requests take X hours/days to process and will be based on how well the Funding Nation receiving the request like you. Denied requests will result in a small reduction in points with the Funding Nation as they loose faith in your ability as a Commander. Granted requests will result in a greater reduction of points with the Funding Nation. The player must now balance the time it takes to process, along with the number of requests they send, as well as who they send them to... This would result in requests successful or not costing you time and money as well as an increased risk of loosing a Funding Nation... It spreads the money part out over time more, (You loose monthly funding) and you may loose more money overall, but at least it might keep you in the fight. I'd much rather see this replace the salvage downed airplanes, because it's so ludicrous an idea that it's faster easier to repair something destroyed or damaged so badly then build a new one from scratch.... wth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) I disagree with the indestructible interceptors; they break immersion, and honestly it sounds lazy (although I know you devs are anything but lazy; I'm just saying what it sounds like). Idea for Fixing Indestructible Interceptors Please give feedback Instead of making them indestructible, simply give the player an "Emergency Disengage" button in addition to the retreat button. This would have the pilot drop the plane out of the sky, making a powered (so it still actually flies and doesn't flip and fall) forced landing. The aircraft icon would speed up and get smaller (simulating a dive) and escape the battle within a matter of a couple seconds, as opposed to the regular retreat button that simply has them fly away from the battle (which can still let UFOs take them out if they're too far away from the edge). This would require the full 72 hours of recover time PLUS the repair time for any damage it may have gotten PLUS an extra 20% damage due to the plane crashing (down to a minimum of 1%? health remaining). This should encourage the player not to simply hit the big red button any time they get scratched in combat, since it would actually add on damage and take an additional 3 days to recover before repairs can take place. Also, if you crash in the ocean, the plane's dead. There should be a risk involved fighting over the ocean, if only because it makes the ground combat (or lack thereof) easier. This way, if you really want to let your interceptor get destroyed you can, but there's a way to very rapidly escape the battle with some consequences. In essence, this method would produce the exact same results as having the interceptors be indestructible: The player can save his/her planes and not have to make new ones. The difference is that it doesn't "ruin" the experience for more "hard core" players by making the air combat more pansy, and it also makes a TON more sense. The only real gameplay difference is that the player now has to press a button. (Big whoop I say, there's a pause button, so reaction time is of no consequence.) So, feedback anyone? Would this satisfy both sides? Edited July 6, 2013 by GizmoGomez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avid Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Thanks Aaron! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Went Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 So, feedback anyone? Would this satisfy both sides? It's sounds almost like my idea with difference about ocean battles. Fighter falls down to minimal altitude, where he almost invulnerable to UFO attacks but can't attack itself, turns on forsage and quickly flies out of area. Obviously, player will unable to undo this action and return fighter to battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger-X2 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Hmm...Hey hardcores give me some feedback on this idea. A possible solution to the immortal plane problem... Essentially its a 72 hour penalty for loosing a plane vs a $$$ penalty right? What if we adjusted the penalty slightly? Imagine this if you would... Players are now given the ability to request $$$/Planes from the Funding Nations. The requests take X hours/days to process and will be based on how well the Funding Nation receiving the request like you. Denied requests will result in a small reduction in points with the Funding Nation as they loose faith in your ability as a Commander. Granted requests will result in a greater reduction of points with the Funding Nation. The player must now balance the time it takes to process, along with the number of requests they send, as well as who they send them to... This would result in requests successful or not costing you time and money as well as an increased risk of loosing a Funding Nation... It spreads the money part out over time more, (You loose monthly funding) and you may loose more money overall, but at least it might keep you in the fight. +1 from me for this idea! Don't kill the immersion with immortal jets please. Theres got to be another way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I have modified slightly and clarified my idea (a v2 of the one posted above) and posted it to the Suggestions board. Here is the link: http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/6250-Alternative-Mechanic-to-Indestructible-Interceptors-Designed-to-Please-Everyone Please read it and comment on it It would fix basically all of the problems with both the old (destructible and broken) and the current (indestructible and unrealistic/overly hand-holding) air combat systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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