Bought yesterday - Uninstalled today

[DaWu]

Another Company failing big time doing a real xcom Remake. I played my 5th Ufo Mission and had to play the same map the 3rd time in a row. same landing position, same Ufo position, and even the same location for the aliens.

I was like WTF and registered here and learned they did not implement random maps! WTF? Last time I visited here half a year ago they stated that they will have random maps! And now AFTER I bought the game I find out that I got cheated! They bullshited me! I am so pissed now! I want my money back!

[captainkrunch96]

Another Company failing big time doing a real xcom Remake. I played my 5th Ufo Mission and had to play the same map the 3rd time in a row. same landing position, same Ufo position, and even the same location for the aliens.

I was like WTF and registered here and learned they did not implement random maps! WTF? Last time I visited here half a year ago they stated that they will have random maps! And now AFTER I bought the game I find out that I got cheated! They bullshited me! I am so pissed now! I want my money back!

Clearly, you didn't listen. If I'm correct they said they MIGHT add random maps AFTER the game is finished. Notice might and after the game is finished. personally, I don't understand how its a big deal. there are many different tile sets per geographic area, and different aliens and UFO's. Also many other things that make this a very fun gamethat if played you will have a great time. randomization, while mostly(sometimes) good, doesn't make a good game

Edited July 3, 2013 by captainkrunch96

[DaWu]

Clearly, you didn't listen. If I'm correct they said they MIGHT add random maps AFTER the game is finished. Notice might and after the game is finished. personally, I don't understand how its a big deal. there are many different tile sets per geographic area, and different aliens and UFO's. Also many other things that make this a very fun gamethat if played you will have a great time. randomization, while mostly(sometimes) good, doesn't make a good game

like I wrote before. I played 5 Ufo tactical missions and ended up 3 times in the same map with same start Location, same Ufo Location and same Alien Position. sorry thats crap. maybe I didnt read carefully enough. I was sure they were on the same track but I should have knew it. for some reasons every attempt of doing a proper Remake must be ruined by someone doing stupid decisions.

[captainkrunch96]

like I wrote before. I played 5 Ufo tactical missions and ended up 3 times in the same map with same start Location, same Ufo Location and same Alien Position. sorry thats crap. maybe I didnt read carefully enough. I was sure they were on the same track but I should have knew it. for some reasons every attempt of doing a proper Remake must be ruined by someone doing stupid decisions.

Maybe youre luck in the RNG was down, trust me theres more.

[Max_Caine]

DaWu, you visited this forum half a year ago, so exactly where was it stated that there would be random maps? Because the lack of maps is a well-known issue on this forum, and has been ever since the earliest playable builds of the game came out. It's something that people complain about regularly, and something that the developers have recognised. Their effort has almost been entirely focussed on other aspects of the game, such as adding features, and now getting the game balanced. You have not bought a finished game. You have pre-ordered and have access to the beta.

If you're so upset about a lack of maps, then download and install the Community Map Pack. You'll have a greater variety of maps to play with.

[ThunderGr]

The game is not finished, yet. I am waiting to see what is going to be in the end. They may succeed or they may not. It depends on them and the choices they make. Not having random maps is a disappointment, really but, if it is the only one, I, for one, am willing to get past it, as long as they have enough maps to ensure the variety required. Unfortunately, there are more issues, at this moment, that may condemn the game to being just another failed attempt, in the end.

Since you seem interested in a game succeeding in being as good as, or even better than, X-COM, I would suggest that you stick around, read the forum threads and give your opinion. It is the only way to contribute to a, very much desired, success of this game which, according to my evaluation, seem to be the best attempt, so far, to make an amazing X-COM-like game.

Noone can guarantee that we are heard, since there are many people that want the game to be easier than the original and, in some cases, even disregard the most thrilling points of that game. Still, if we do not try, it will mean we do not care. This is my opinion.

[thothkins]

To be fair to the OP, when I heard that completely random maps were suddenly out, I did a double take too. It seemed that the game had gone from random to semi random to hand crafted. Now looking at maps threads or especially the creation thread shows that there is still a huge amount of variation available, and that the game will probably flow better the way it is.

Then there's the number of maps in vanilla. A newcomer doesn't necessarily know that the devs focus a lot of time and effort getting the game to work on any map, before creating umpteen variations. Not to mention the countless other tweaks and designs of the maps we now see. They won't necessarily have access to the newer maps either (unless these have been uploaded to steam), so they won't be aware of that variety either.

Early game, you also don't know about the different maps available for different UFOs and mission types.

Suffice to say to the OP, if they are still around, is that there will be plenty of variation by the final release & additional maps are available presently to add in. Aliens spawning in the same place is up for debate, as it can be changed, but would be far less apparent over a larger number of maps regardless.

[DaWu]

I cant tell you where I read it. Maybe my Interpretation was just wrong. I didnt follow the Forums closely. I read the devs update on the News section of the Webpage regularely. I didnt even notice the game was released until last week. it was a spontaneous buy as I usually do not like to Play betas. so yes maybe its my mistake as I didnt inform myself well enough. doesnt Change the fact that this is a game breaker for me and I will rest the game now until final release.

to be honest: in my first tactical Ufo Mission I was thinking: These maps look not that good (mostly because of way too much space between covers) but then I told myself: hey they are randomly generated so its ok. but Hearing now that this is the result of handcrafting? well....

[Max_Caine]

DaWu, what, you mean this?

EDIT: So that people are aware, the random map functionality is still there. It's just not used by the Goldhawk staff. I'm trying it out and having problems getting submaps right, and I can see why Goldhawk stopped using it (because pretty submaps do not a good random submap make) but it's there! It's been there from the start!

Edited July 3, 2013 by Max_Caine

[thothkins]

but it's there! It's been there from the start!

twice I reminded myself to add that in. Did I? Ummmm...

from the ground combat page..."With a huge variety of vehicles, weapons, equipment and armour types available in the game, the ground combat has huge replayability. The randomised maps, several mission types, countless types of aliens to fight against and numerous different tilesets to do it in all mean that you will stay interested for a long time. Plus, there’s nothing quite like the thrill of trying out the new weapon you’ve researched for the first time!"

Hopefully, as posted, DaWu will at least give the game another go on release, when the fruits of a lot of effort in the map design part of the game will be more evident. I noticed from Max's link that they said there's now 50 maps in the game. Of course these are spread out across several ships, mission types etc.

[DaWu]

I mean no specific sentence. its just the talking about tilesets, submaps and so on that hindered me doubting they would do anything but random maps....

[Jean-Luc]

While I'm not as upset I can easily understand how one might get the wrong idea. I've been following the development for longer than most and the (semi)-random maps have been "in" for much longer than they've been "out". They're even mentioned on the kickstarter page and, afaik, there's never been an official update stating the removal (or non-implementation rather) of semi-random maps, only the occasional forum post but nothing that's clearly visible. The random maps have just been sort of quietly phased out.

While I can understand the reasoning behind it, after all this is probably the biggest negative hit this game has suffered so far (aside from the engine thing maybe), I suspect this is not the first thread of this kind we'll be seeing.

In the end it's not as bad as the OP's experience suggests since it's a side effect of an unfinished game and, thankfully, there's the map editor but still...

[smoitessier]

but still...

Yeah ...

fubar

And not very happy with Chris's 'GH approved' map designs that force the UFO to be in certain corners of the map neither, sounds like it's catering for mass consumptions.

Edited July 3, 2013 by smoitessier

[Jean-Luc]

On the other hand the Steam page makes no mention of random maps and even sort of states that there will be a final number of them sooo...it's one of those fine print things that can easily confuse people and feels a bit faustian. It's especially nasty if you've sort of followed this game for a long time but not too closely yet closely enough to accept random maps as a given (kinda like the OP).

[Atomic Moose]

I think they should keep focusing where they are focusing. get the overall balance feeling a little bit better. the essentials are there for maps, as far as is required to make the rest of the game work better for a while. I would be satisfied with a deeper pool of maps, with a little more polish. As far as the distance between cover is concerned, this is largely dependent on your squads experience level, which IMO at least as far as AP's goes makes it mind explodingly frustrating to play with rookies after you have tasted 100ap squaddies.

[Mytheos]

Dont blame the Devs, blame the industry.

There is Pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta, Release.

Pre-Alpha = 50% Done, We have a very basic framework, the game is semi-functional and missing many things from art to mechanics.

Alpha = 70% Done,The framework is mostly in place, the game is playable, but lacking depth, balance, still missing many features.

Beta = 80% Done, The game is playable, but still is far from finished, missing art, text, balance, some features.

Release = 90%-95% Done, Game is basically done, everything is in, just need to work on fine tuning the balance and fix the remaining bugs.

However the industry decided to call their Beta "Released", so they can make money quicker, have players playtest the game sooner, and give feedback.

This game is a Beta by original definition, so something like having the Maps 90% done isnt something to expect.

There are player made Map Packs you can download to help tide you over.

But again this is clearly stated as "Early Access Beta" so it should clarify this isnt a 90% done beta (Also Know as Released), it's more a 70-75% done beta (Also Known as Beta)

[Mytheos]

Oh and I forgot to mention, if you read the notes on the builds...

The Final Missions isnt even in the game yet. So you cant even beat the game...should the devs be focused on random maps and more detailed tiles with little shrubs and small rocks?

I think the general concept is to finish building a car before you wax and "Polish" it.

[RawCode]

you can wax and polish car when engine and some system are placeholders...

IMHO

as long as software can crash at random it still alpha, no matter how it called and how many maps it have, crasing most frustrating thing possible.

[DaWu]

Dont blame the Devs, blame the industry.

There is Pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta, Release.

Pre-Alpha = 50% Done, We have a very basic framework, the game is semi-functional and missing many things from art to mechanics.

Alpha = 70% Done,The framework is mostly in place, the game is playable, but lacking depth, balance, still missing many features.

Beta = 80% Done, The game is playable, but still is far from finished, missing art, text, balance, some features.

Release = 90%-95% Done, Game is basically done, everything is in, just need to work on fine tuning the balance and fix the remaining bugs.

However the industry decided to call their Beta "Released", so they can make money quicker, have players playtest the game sooner, and give feedback.

This game is a Beta by original definition, so something like having the Maps 90% done isnt something to expect.

There are player made Map Packs you can download to help tide you over.

But again this is clearly stated as "Early Access Beta" so it should clarify this isnt a 90% done beta (Also Know as Released), it's more a 70-75% done beta (Also Known as Beta)

A Beta ist Feature complete! A Beta is there to fix bugs and not add further stuff. Another Thing that mislead me! Sorry but my trust in the devs is completely gone. I will look it up again whent its finished but right now I enjoy the good weather here in germany

[Mytheos]

you can wax and polish car when engine and some system are placeholders...

IMHO

as long as software can crash at random it still alpha, no matter how it called and how many maps it have, crasing most frustrating thing possible.

Its almost impossible to remove all crashes from modern games, while I agree it is something that needs to be handled well through the development so you get more player feedback...

The Development process itself is a cycle of creating and removing bugs as more features are added.

You cant fix bugs you havent even created yet.

And I would rather have my car running so I can drive the thing, versus it sitting in my garage with a new wax job on blocks because it is missing an engine...nor would I want to waste time converting my lawn mower engine over to work as a "placeholder".

So yes the game needs to function somewhat well to get player feedback, but as long as you have enough maps to play the game you're fine.

And again use player created maps if you need more variety, but I worry less about Map variety and more about things like is the final mission even in the game yet?

Or at least I would if I were a Dev.

[Solarius Scorch]

Well, I understand the OP quite well in that the random maps are desirable. I'll even go as far as to say that not having them in the name of something like "game flow" is a major BS, no need to look for pretty words (I've been playing for such games since for at least 15 years, more than any other genre, and I know what I'm saying).

However, I also look at the game as it is now as a project in a state of flux, where more or less random maps are still a possibility. If this doesn't happen, I'll make them myself or (more likely) use random maps made by other, more talented community members. The game already has a great engine, so any player-editable content is secondary - we can do this ourselves, while we basically can't write the core of the game (code, GUI etc.). And the core is why Xenonauts are such a kickass game - it works and works very well. Play it, man!

[Jean-Luc]

It's not because of game flow. They simply don't work well, a purely technical issue.

[GizmoGomez]

I'll be honest, that comment about the waxing the car on blocks and using a lawnmower engine was pretty sweet. haha

But, more to the point, the game is basically feature complete. This doesn't mean that it's content complete. By this I mean, all of the mechanics are in place, the ground combat, air combat, geoscape, etc, but all of the individual stuff isn't. For example, there are a lot of place holder images, strings, etc. Think of the maps like the images, or the research descriptions, or anything else that has some of it there, but not all of it.

Thankfully, the community has lots of nice maps they're making, and every map can/will? have sections randomly selected from a variety of same-sized sections. So, in one mission, the street corner could be a park, but in another, it could be a gas station (I don't actually know if there are any of that exact example, but you get the idea). Once we have a boatload and a half of submaps, plus a good amount of maps in general, things will work better.

One idea I just had that could be implemented:

We should bias the selection of maps for each terrain type.

Since it makes the post twice as long, here's a spoiler box for it.

Once the game has a lot more maps, should the random number generator that decides the map be biased? Like, choose any map except the last two of this terrain type it used? That way you would never get the same map in a row, alleviating some of the problem. The same thing could be applied for submaps as well.

Like, give every map a variable, and set it to zero. When a map is played, set that map's variable to 2, and subtract one from every map (unless that map is already at 0). The only maps available to pick from are maps where the variable = 0.

For example, you have several maps, A B C D E. They all = 0. You play map A, so A=2, all others = 0. Next map chosen can be either B C D E. It picks B. B = 2, A = 1, C D E = 0. Now it has either C D E to pick from. It picks C, so C = 2, B = 1, A D E = 0. Now it can finally pick A again, after two other maps have been played.

Just put this system in for each terrain type, and we have a way to keep maps from getting repeated over and over again.

Pseudo-Randomly Selected.

My question to the more code-savvy people out there, would this be possible, given the current setup?

[ThunderGr]

Beta = 80% Done, The game is playable, but still is far from finished, missing art, text, balance, some features.

I have to disagree. Beta has all features, text, balance. It is a bug hunter and fine-tuning. The current state of the game has been stated as beta but it is obvious it is not a beta, yet.

Release = 90%-95% Done, Game is basically done, everything is in, just need to work on fine tuning the balance and fix the remaining bugs.

You must be kidding me. Release means the game is bug-free and balanced. I wonder where you have taken these specifications from. Noone has ever told me that a released game is 90% ready.

[RawCode]

Its almost impossible to remove all crashes from modern games

And I would rather have my car running so I can drive the thing, versus it sitting in my garage with a new wax job on blocks because it is missing an engine

Most of current build's stuff are actually placeholders, ever game difficulty affect nothing but allien HP with +50% bonus on insane.

as for software lifecycle - total BS.

release == ALL features done and work just as planed, no placeholders left, software never crash under normal conditions, anything else is beta or alpha.

i developer myself, current game's stage is alpha, as long as game can crash at random it cannot be called beta.