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The reason is pretty much obvious and actually something that should have been done since the beginning.

More or less all the actions you do in a turn are supposed to happen in a limited amount of time, maybe 2-5 minutes and in roughly the order you make, Then the aliens do theirs.

So if a soldier uses all of his TUs to heal then thats all he did for those 2-5mins and the soldier being healed also should use his TUs being still and letting the healer do the job, not run around and shoot at things. A wounded soldier means 1 soldier not fighting back and 1 or 2 more not fighting back cause they are giving first aid. That makes far more sense tan having soldiers being magically healed and runing around like nothing ever happened to them in that turn.

And of course, this can (and maybe should) be carried to any other actions were 2 or more soldiers interactuate with each other.

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Perhaps having the soldier being healed should lose TUs equal to the HP healed? That would be pretty simple, and would be self balancing in that the more you heal, the more time it takes. Also, you wouldn't lose all of your TUs that way, so you'd still be able to fire a bit, or something (depending on the severity of the wound).

However, if the wounded soldier has less TUs than hitpoints healed, then it'd just go to 0. Negative TUs don't make sense. ;)

All in all, though, I love the idea. It makes healing cost more, makes it more risky. Love it.

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Wounded soldier should lose the same amount that the healer used, wich is the time the 2 of them used to do the action ( one healing the other letting him do it).

Although I agree with the idea, I do not think that the amount of TUs lost should be equal, since the soldiers do not start with the same amount of TUs. The wounded soldier would lose the same percentage of TUs the healer does, because the percentage is the actual time representation. Each soldier can do more/less things at a specified time range than the others and this is what TUs represent.

I hope the idea will find its way in the game.

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EDIT: This was originally researched at around the time of GizmoGomez's first response. Ergo, I have not read any of the other posts and am just catching up!

Does it actually make that much sense from a game perspective? What would be the consequence from making that change? I'm going to go through the current version of healing, using episode 2 from ClosetYeti's Xenonauts on Steam to show what I mean.

A solider who is wounded in Xenonauts is in general in one of two states. Moderate or badly wounded. This is because alien weapons do a high amount of raw damage, combined with a generous amount of random damage.

While armour does upgrade, alien plasma weaponry tends to outrace armour. When jackal armour is researched, out come plasma rifles. When Wolf armour is researched, out come heavy plasma, etc. etc. As a consequence, a solider healing another solider who has been hit by a plasma weapon must put in a considerable AP expenditure. This is not counting the AP spent to get to the wounded subject. A soldier who is hit can effectively paralyse the solider healing him through simple expenditure of AP.

The cost of healing is generally large enough that it's better "economic" sense to have the wounded solider hightail it over to the solider with the medkit and even then the solider being healed tends to have more AP once healing is finished.

In a situation where you have a healed and a healer, the healer in general seems to be paralysed following healing through loss of AP. What would be the consequence of deducting AP from the healed as well?

If there was no correlation between the cost of healer AP and healed AP

Let us say it does not cost X number of AP from the healed in relation to Y number of AP from the healer. Rather, X number of AP from the healed is deducted but if there is not X number of AP to deduct, then the healer can still spend Y number of AP the heal, regardless.

In this situation, if a player wants to maximise his use of a wounded solider, then that solider must use as many APs as possible, or he'll loose the rest. This leads to riskier behaviour in wounded soliders, in a "fuck it, he'll shoot anyway because if I don't then he'll never get a chance". This also obliviates the "sense" of the healing process. There's no order in which soliders can be activated, so I can blow all the AP of a wounded solider anyway, regardless of the "sense" of "healing time".

If there was a correlation between the cost of healer AP and healed AP

If it does cost X number of AP from the healed in relation to Y number of AP from the healer, then healing drops significantly in utility. As was demonstrated in the earlier videos, damage does not always come from the aliens' turn, when soldiers then get a refreshed AP. A soldier that triggers a successful overwatch shot may or may not have signficant AP reserves. If a solider had enough AP to retreat, but then as a consequence no AP to heal, then you get simple player frustration "why can 't I heal my goddamn trooper!". You get a situation where you edge wounded and healer together in a nervous lover's duet, so that you balance the AP on both sides adequately to be able to heal the wounded guy.

Also consider that a solider can be suppressed, and can suffer bleeding wounds. A solider that is suppressed and wounded is, as a consequence, fucked. He may or may not have enough AP to retreat. If a solider does have AP to retreat, he certainly won't have enough to be healed to any degree. A solider who has suffered bleeding wounds can get into the same situation, where he doesn't have enough AP to heal that bleeding wound. When you loose your first solider to a bleeding wound that your healer had enough AP to heal but your wounded guy didn't, I'll hear the scream and think "Ah! Not enough AP."

From a game persepctive, I don't think it's a good idea. It can either be sidestepped, or will provide an enourmous amount of frustration. But hey! Why not play a few missions where you simulate the effect? Perhaps do a video and show us?

Edited by Max_Caine
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Max, if you think about it, in a real situation, if a wounded soldier was running and firing while another soldier tried to heal him, I doubt healing him could be done, no matter how many TUs the healer had. The same goes with suppressed soldiers, as they spend a portion of time dashing to cover, panicked soldiers whimpering and freaking out etc etc...So, soldiers receiving healing when they are in a state that would be unreasonable for it to happen does not make it right for the games to allow, just in the name of simplicity.

The idea is a realistic one and will add to gameplay IMHO.

As a sidenote, only stunned soldiers should be able to receive healing with 0 TUs, since they stay still, anyway.

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EDITED FOR TONE

I would like to see evidence on how this would improve gameplay over the current system. My research suggests that this system will not improve gameplay. Making claims without any argument or evidence to back it up makes the claim hollow.

Edited by Max_Caine
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EDITED FOR TONE

I would like to see evidence on how this would improve gameplay over the current system. My research suggests that this system will not improve gameplay. Making claims without any argument or evidence to back it up makes the claim hollow.

Sorry I went away. Yes most people have understood my vague OP.

I think realism (as much could be realistically achieved) improves the experience and spending turn healing a patient only to have them run off and have a turn of their own doesn't seem very realistic to me.

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Also I would like to see injured soldiers having greater stat modification (if any exist currently). Having a nearly dead soldier perfor as well as if they were 100% fit doesn't seem realistic, I think they should have accuracy reduced and movement etc (or one or the other) This would be fun as the soldiers when injured would have to lie low using grenades etc until healed or the battle is resolved.

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Also I would like to see injured soldiers having greater stat modification (if any exist currently). Having a nearly dead soldier perfor as well as if they were 100% fit doesn't seem realistic, I think they should have accuracy reduced and movement etc (or one or the other) This would be fun as the soldiers when injured would have to lie low using grenades etc until healed or the battle is resolved.

In the original game, you got stat modification if you had a critical injury on a part of your body. What was modified depended on which part of your body was injured. You could heal the critical damage using a medkit, but the stat modifications would only partially recover, depending on the damage done. This was quite cool and I liked it a lot. This has been omitted in xenonauts, unfortunately.

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Perhaps having the soldier being healed should lose TUs equal to the HP healed? That would be pretty simple, and would be self balancing in that the more you heal, the more time it takes. Also, you wouldn't lose all of your TUs that way, so you'd still be able to fire a bit, or something (depending on the severity of the wound).

However, if the wounded soldier has less TUs than hitpoints healed, then it'd just go to 0. Negative TUs don't make sense. ;)

All in all, though, I love the idea. It makes healing cost more, makes it more risky. Love it.

I agree, great thought

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Sorry I went away. Yes most people have understood my vague OP.

I think realism (as much could be realistically achieved) improves the experience and spending turn healing a patient only to have them run off and have a turn of their own doesn't seem very realistic to me.

I think it is an order of operations thing really.

If the guy blows his TU first then there is no penalty, however if he doesnt, there is. So you'd have the injured soldier shoot first then get healed to avoid loosing TUs for being healed.

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Getting healed and walk away running and shooting in the same turn looks stupid IMHO any way you look a t it, and makes getting wounded rather indiferent as for the battle itself goes. It only means that soldier cant get shot another time or he will die.

As for balance purposes, the wounded is not required to have free TUs to get healed it should only depend on healers TUs to avoid the situation Max pointed out. As for wounded having more TUs and using them up before getting healed, bringing back the severe stat penalty for wounded used in OG XCOM should solve this as the soldier becomes basically useless for anything but moving his ass into cover.

Easy and nice. And all this adds more tactical choices on how and when wounded should/can be attended as it becomes a drag for the team as it is in real life. Im all against having an easy day fighting aliens, shit can and need to happen to present you with some decisión making wich makes it fun.

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Although I agree with the idea, I do not think that the amount of TUs lost should be equal, since the soldiers do not start with the same amount of TUs. The wounded soldier would lose the same percentage of TUs the healer does, because the percentage is the actual time representation. Each soldier can do more/less things at a specified time range than the others and this is what TUs represent.

I hope the idea will find its way in the game.

This is the solution to something which is currently ludicrous at best, agree with all of this post.

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Yeah its a small area that needs a look, at some point anyways.

The old style of wounding various body parts would go a long way toward benefiting this game tho, as I agree wounded soldiers should have more of an impact on the squad than a simple less HP situation.

Also bring along wounded/injured solider is possible in this game, which I agree with, however instead of making the choice rather simple it would be nice to have the added weight of knowing this soldier doesnt just have less HP, but also might have mobility and accuracy penalties.

Hell you could even add a correlation to overall health condition and bravery to some degree, as wounded soldiers arent going to be nearly as brave as a fully healed soldier. Along with the obvious accuracy, vision, and mobility penalties.

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Or you can do it the way the Jagged Alliance series did it.

The healer looses all APs. The healed keeps a fixed percentage of his APs while being healed (generally 1/3 of total APs). Healing takes between 2-4 turns, depending on damage done (healing only "repairs" x number of HPs per turn). In this manner.

1) You don't have to worry about the ratio of healer/healed APs. (No lover's duets).

2) You can't simply blow through the APs of a wounded guy.

3) The healer can tend to really wounded guys who will die without treatment but don't have the AP to be treated.

4) The healer can tend to suppressed guys who will die without treatment but don't have the AP to be treated.

5) Healer and healed are fixed in place for a specific number of turns, depending on damage done.

6) If surprised by an alien, the wounded can defend both healer and wounded. They aren't sitting ducks. (Hey, a use for sidearms! You can either get a snap shot off with a rifle or a better shot off with a sidearm!)

EVERYONE HAPPY.

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Or you can do it the way the Jagged Alliance series did it.

The healer looses all APs. The healed keeps a fixed percentage of his APs while being healed (generally 1/3 of total APs). Healing takes between 2-4 turns, depending on damage done (healing only "repairs" x number of HPs per turn). In this manner.

1) You don't have to worry about the ratio of healer/healed APs. (No lover's duets).

2) You can't simply blow through the APs of a wounded guy.

3) The healer can tend to really wounded guys who will die without treatment but don't have the AP to be treated.

4) The healer can tend to suppressed guys who will die without treatment but don't have the AP to be treated.

5) Healer and healed are fixed in place for a specific number of turns, depending on damage done.

6) If surprised by an alien, the wounded can defend both healer and wounded. They aren't sitting ducks. (Hey, a use for sidearms! You can either get a snap shot off with a rifle or a better shot off with a sidearm!)

EVERYONE HAPPY.

Hmmm...I do not think so. Where do you have control of how much you are healing? Why fix in place the soldiers? The point made was that you will only have to deduct the same percentage of TUs(thus immobilizing for the same amount of time) both healer and wounded. It was also mentioned that stunned soldiers would be able to be healed at all times. I think that the system you describe is quite horrible and unrealistic. In addition it gives you no control over the amount of healing and whether you want the healer to heal some, then be ready for a reaction shot or, heal some, then advance on the enemy. The wounded could have TUs remaining after the healing, as well, and he could set up for reaction fire or advance or shoot at an enemy.

Example: During Alien turn, a soldier received a critical hit and got suppressed. His 100 TUs went down to 60. During my turn, I use a nearby soldier with 60 TUs which have a pistol and medikit on his hands, to heal 10 HP(thus tending the critical wound and stopping the bleeding). This leaves the healer with 50 TUs and the wounded with, aprox. 43 TUs(17%, since 10 TUs out of 60 is 16.66%). Now they can both perform whatever action I want.

Makes more sense to me.

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"Horrible and unrealistic?". Blimey, I dare you say that in the Bear's Pit! :) I'm facinated that you say it's "unrealistic", given that it takes into account

1) The person doing most of the healing process is the healer. Other than answer questions and stay still, the wounded doesn't necessarily have an active part in the process of healing an injury, especially seeing as an injury does not need to be somewhere where the wounded can either get easy access to, or be in any fit state to tend to the injury him/herself. Before you go on about how you see to all your injuries yourself, the job I work in means I see an ambulance at least once a week. My experience is that people are not very good at self-diagnosis when in pain and it generally takes someone else to actually do the job.

2) It's more realistic to say that only so much damage in a given period of time could be either healed or prevented from getting worse. While a very efficent medic (high AP) can get things done, the human body and the procedures a medic must go through to prevent things from getting worse act as a brake. Again, when a paramedic comes on duty, I watch him. He has a set procedure, a set number of questions (which he changes depending on what happens), a set way of doing things which imposes a limit on what he, as a paramedic can do in a given period of time.

3)

Why fix in place the soldiers?
Max, if you think about it, in a real situation, if a wounded soldier was running and firing while another soldier tried to heal him, I doubt healing him could be done, no matter how many TUs the healer had.

4) Your example given. See 3)

If you want to argue realism, it isn't realistic that a critical injury is healed up in a very brief period of time and the wounded solider is all "thanks!" and runs off to fight again. If you passionately want realism, then you should go the whole way. In JA and JA2, you can't actually heal wounds. You can only bandage people up in a combat area. They can only heal up outside combat, either very slowly by themselves, or more quickly under the attention of a doctor. You can't ask for something semi-realistic and claim "this is totes real". Either do it right or abandon all claim of realism.

EDIt: As for counter-examples, look at the majority of situations ClosetYeti's soliders get wounded in. Are they in the ideal situation the troopers your example is in are? No! They aren't. Almost inevitably one soldier has way less AP than another. Other soliders tend to have rifles in their hands, instead of medkits because pistols are crap and there aren't enough soliders for one solider to be useless waiting for someone to get hurt.

Edited by Max_Caine
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[....]

I see what are your points, but I would like it better if you did not misquote me. I am pretty sure that you can see how my example (addressed at..(4) :P ) and my comment (addressed at (3)) are two different things. I hope my points are presented in a relevant way for those that are really interested in reading them and taking them in account(and you, obviously, are not one of them since you have decided to not, even, read them properly but only enough to misquote them).

@GizmoGomez

It is simple and it works, in the sense everyone adjusts their tactics according to what we are given. I have been using this healing system in all games I have played and, everytime, I kept thinking "yeah, right...but, whatever" :P.

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