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[poll] should UFO position be known when the dropship lands?


should UFO position be known when the dropship lands?  

52 members have voted

  1. 1. should UFO position be known when the dropship lands?

    • Yes, full map should be visible, minus interiors (keep fog)
      15
    • Yes, but only the general direction of it
      10
    • No, keep it traditional XCOM style
      27


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Related thread: http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/6119-so-I-just-flew-over-a-field-in-a-chinook-and-I-have-no-idea-where-the-nearest

Since the pilots at the very least would be able to see where the UFO was when they landed, should the nauts know where it is? How much info about the map should the nauts have when they land? How much is realistic?

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Since the pilots at the very least would be able to see where the UFO was when they landed, should the nauts know where it is

Unless the pilots are two of the 'nauts. That's why the seats are empty at the start of missions. They land, and then go into the back with the others before deploying in Turn 1. :)

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That sounds like a good idea, actually.

Just for clarity's sake, these are what I imagine for the three options:

a) All of the outside is "explored" but fogged over, interiors are still dark.

b) Only areas above the ground level (building and UFO roofs) are "explored" but fogged, and everything on the ground is dark.

c) As it is now, everything is dark.

Now, I disagree with option a the most, as it would be very easy and take away most of the tension. Therefore I'm not including it in my proposed plan (but feel free to disagree, this is my idea only.)

Option b is much easier to live with, as the specific props and things on the ground level are still hidden, but the "tops" of things are visible, as they would be if the chinook had windows that the soldiers looked out of.

Option c is my favorite, because I prefer it to be more difficult and have more tension in the atmosphere.

As for difficulty levels:

Easy has the option of b and c, b being the default.

Normal has the option of b and c, c being the default.

Veteran and Insane has c compulsory.

Does this sound fair?

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it depends on how many maps there are going to be for each ufo. At the moment I generally know where a ufo will be when I get my troops out of the dropship.

In a perfect world, each map would have 3 or more different versions and the ufo could be in different locations each time. Then there would be 4 or 5 different map layouts for each terrain type so the chances of having the same scenario over and over is reasonably slim.

Right now, there is no reason why it shouldn't be 'explored' with just FOW.

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Then that'd fall in line with the "general direction" option -- the pilots/nauts will say "it's that way" to everyone else.

Heh, I deleted a line for my original post along the lines "So, why are they keeping it to themselves. Have the aliens infiltrated Xenonauts?" :)

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As there have been complaints that it is boring to know where the UFO is each time because the layout of the map is known then it appears logical to me that there would be more complaints (and more boredom) if everyone was forced to know the location even on a map they had not played several times.

I prefer to have to explore rather than just walk from A to B.

The alternative I would prefer for a shroudless map has not been mentioned.

As the new map generation system places the UFO on top of other tiles and replaces them it could be possible to have the underlying tiles visible (greyed out) until the player has someone in the area to spot the UFO.

So you would be able to see the whole greyed out map but only when you could physically see the UFO would the field/building/carpark it is sitting in be replaced with the UFO graphics.

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I voted for C, but after reading the rest of the comments I would be fine with the easier difficulties having the option. No one is going to be bragging about their normal mode games ones the difficulties are in, and I am up for anything that allows new players to enjoy and get the hang of the game. Then ream them on the hard difficulties. With a rusty spork.

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I wish there could be an option, so i could choose either fog of war or being able to see the entire map (just blacked out).

Thothkins, I read what you said in the other forum and I didn't really think of playing the game like that. Any map or mission I play, I have the same objective each and every time:

Kill every alien bastard.

Even better, as PVT. Johnny Rico said:

"KILL EM!

KILL EM ALL!!!!"

Maybe it's to satisfy my blood lust, maybe I really want to try to even the body count, or maybe I just like the OG x-com's way of doing it, but I always search every corner (literally) of every map to wipe them all out. You get a little extra cash, your soldier gets a skill leveled, you don't lose points for one escaping or anything.

Anyway, I have absolutely no need whatsoever to win via UFO capture. It's something I haven't even tried to do (i don't know if it's even implemented yet). But the FOW kills me. People can argue over the realism "but da helichoppa saw da landin' site! i should know where everything is!" "but they have printers and phones! can't they just get copies of maps of the area they goin to, so they know where everythin is??" but I don't care about the realism. I mean, yea, I guess the map being seen entirely greyed out would be the 'realistic' representation of maps/seeing the zone of operation, but my problem is it's just really annoying.

It annoys me because I feel like it takes away from the game, tactically. My goal is to wipe out the aliens, if I have a map of the area I can plan accordingly. Right now i'm just sending 8 people with different type of guns all in random directions hoping to find something. If I could see the map, I'd have snipers moving toward vantage points, I'd have machine gunners setting up on long streets or choke points.

But this is just a dream :P maybe once the game actually comes out there'll be something I can change in the files to suit my unique play style. I wouldn't want the devs to include it for the exact reasons thothkins gave, too much potential for breaking the game.

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Thothkins, I read what you said in the other forum and I didn't really think of playing the game like that. Any map or mission I play, I have the same objective each and every time:

Kill every alien bastard.

Even better, as PVT. Johnny Rico said:

"KILL EM!

KILL EM ALL!!!!"

YES! NO MERCY!! Baaaannnnzzzzaaaaaiiii!

Maybe it's to satisfy my blood lust, maybe I really want to try to even the body count, or maybe I just like the OG x-com's way of doing it, but I always search every corner (literally) of every map to wipe them all out. You get a little extra cash, your soldier gets a skill leveled, you don't lose points for one escaping or anything.

Ehmmm...bloodlust? What bloodlust? It is just about the safety of the civilians and the most effective thing to do...of course, yes, this is what it is. (whistling innocently)

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As there have been complaints that it is boring to know where the UFO is each time because the layout of the map is known then it appears logical to me that there would be more complaints (and more boredom) if everyone was forced to know the location even on a map they had not played several times. I prefer to have to explore rather than just walk from A to B.

You would still have to explore as most of the aliens are not in the ship, as they were in the original games. Currently, most of the money earned from a mission comes from their weapons, to occupying a UFO to win is a very bad idea. Some of the map also have the UFOs visible from the start (or it may be a particular class of UFO, I do not recall right now). It does not effect how the sweep of the map occurs.

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Helicopter Pilots and Maps

I dont see my guys sitting around studying maps and talking over details of the area with the pilots.

I see a swat team that has to go to an area and quickly neutralize a team of Aliens.

I dont think realism covers....

*BOOOM* *ZZZAAAP* *Shattered Glass* *Cat screams*

(Soldiers stand in a circle talking and studying Maps)

*Explosion Noises* *OMG My Leg!* *No little Timmy dont run that way!!* *NO!!!!! ZAAAP* *My GOD SOMEONE HELP US!*

Soldiers - "Dammit people will you shut up we're trying to study maps and have a conversation!!!"

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You would still have to explore as most of the aliens are not in the ship, as they were in the original games. Currently, most of the money earned from a mission comes from their weapons, to occupying a UFO to win is a very bad idea. Some of the map also have the UFOs visible from the start (or it may be a particular class of UFO, I do not recall right now). It does not effect how the sweep of the map occurs.

Except that you could potentially complete your mission in a fraction of the (real world) time.

That means completing more missions in the same amount of time which equates to more income, greater increase in nation funding and potentially slower invasion progression.

Seeing an occasional UFO on the map would naturally have much less impact on your tactics than being able to see it every single time.

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Except that you could potentially complete your mission in a fraction of the (real world) time.

That means completing more missions in the same amount of time which equates to more income, greater increase in nation funding and potentially slower invasion progression.

Seeing an occasional UFO on the map would naturally have much less impact on your tactics than being able to see it every single time.

Huh?

You totally lost me.

Except that you could potentially complete your mission in a fraction of the (real world) time.

(I can do missions quicker, Ok)

That means completing more missions in the same amount of time...

(If I play the game for 5 hours I now get more missions done because I can do the missions quicker...ok)

...which equates to more income, greater increase in nation funding and potentially slower invasion progression.

(Huh? How does doing missions faster equate to more income and so forth?)

Edited by Mytheos
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ground missions are instant, they have no limit and take no global time.

in other case ground combat will turn into mindless grinding with only desire to complete mission ASAP, ignoring everything else.

most viable solution to double allien forces outside UFO and reveal only ufo location as sign, without into about type of ufo and its state, it can be explained like smoke or something similar.

in such case player will have option - hunt alliens for guns or capture ufo ASAP

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Huh?

You totally lost me.

Except that you could potentially complete your mission in a fraction of the (real world) time.

(I can do missions quicker, Ok)

That means completing more missions in the same amount of time...

(If I play the game for 5 hours I now get more missions done because I can do the missions quicker...ok)

...which equates to more income, greater increase in nation funding and potentially slower invasion progression.

(Huh? How does doing missions faster equate to more income and so forth?)

More mission wins equal more nation reputation so higher funding.

That would be depending on the way the scoring is balanced of course but hunting down every last alien on a map is unlikely to give the same score as two or three (or even 1.5) successful take and hold missions which it may be possible to run in the same time as scouring the map for that last alien.

More missions would also likely net you more alien gear and corpses to sell.

You might get a few more on the full map clearance but as you have to clear the path to and the interior of the UFO you will definitely get some gear to sell.

Two missions in the same time period means even if you don't kill all you have a good chance of at least equalling if not exceeding the gear drops from a complete clearance.

At the moment the progression of the alien invasion is based on how well the player does.

If you succeed more you hold back the alien invasion slightly more so have an easier time as the tougher enemies don't appear as quickly.

If you also have more cash available from funding and loot sales then you would also have better gear to face these weaker enemies.

So in your five hour play time you may be able to gain extra cash from loot (or at least keep level with the map clearing method), increase your nation reputation (and cash from funding), plus hold back the aliens so you are facing weaker enemies for longer.

All together I think that definitely shows that the statement I was arguing against is inaccurate.

In particular this part:

Currently, most of the money earned from a mission comes from their weapons, to occupying a UFO to win is a very bad idea.

At the very least more testing would be required to justify removing the shroud based on that argument.

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@Guaddlike

I'm sorry for being ignorant, I really dont understand.

It sounds like you believe time in the game progresses while you are doing a mission? So if I start a mission on say Jan. 1st and left the mission running overnight in real life, and then finished the mission the next day it wouldnt be Jan 1st on the Geoscape when my Chinook was traveling back to base?

I was under the impression time stopped while you were in a mission? (I would be shocked to learn it doesnt....)

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ground missions are instant, they have no limit and take no global time.

in other case ground combat will turn into mindless grinding with only desire to complete mission ASAP, ignoring everything else.

most viable solution to double allien forces outside UFO and reveal only ufo location as sign, without into about type of ufo and its state, it can be explained like smoke or something similar.

in such case player will have option - hunt alliens for guns or capture ufo ASAP

I really get confused by some of the player feedback I read on this forum.

I have heard Make Air Combat Auto Resolve, make ground combat auto resolve, show the UFO so I can just walk in and capture it and kill the fewest # of Aliens possible and do the mission as quick as possible, because it's mindless grinding.

The UFO occupy was made so you didnt have to spend time running around the map trying to find the last Alien...which I experienced in XCOM94 several times, and that search ended up being time consuming and dangerous.

I dont understand the mentality of players that want to Auto-Resolve the entire game? If you want to do that, it sounds like you dont really enjoy playing the game in the first place....

If you just want to rush the UFO and maybe kill half the Aliens on the map, what are you playing the game for?

Reading the tech reports and building your base?

In XCOM94 the only time I found it grindy was when I reached a point I could beat the game but instead chose to train my Soldiers into perfect super soldiers with max psychic powers...

The pace at which you get new tech, see new Aliens, see new ships, build new bases and see your soldiers progress I have never felt like I am just spinning my tires doing nothing but waiting for the next step.

I have never had so much money I said...well I guess I can put in a ping pong table, just throw that bag of cash on the pile, I have nothing I can do with it.

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