A few thoughts after a v18 playthrough

[Nixx]

*edit* i just realised some of my concerns were adressed in the faq. Let's say I dont agree with everything especially the pilots part.

Hi, i just finished a v18 playthrough. Congratulations, for a clone that sticks a lot to the original it has some great innovations. I was surprised by the depth of the game at this point. Air combat is the best i’ve seen. Before playing xenonauts i believe i played every clone of the original X-com game.

Here are some thoughts to make Xenonauts my ideal x-com game. Some specific to Xenonauts, some could apply to every x-com clone.

1. Every people you employ should be unique.

* Planes and vehicles should have pilots inside with names, ranks, and skills like reflex, piloting, and combat skill (if they are crashed or during a base attack). Maybe the rank could open access to more combat maneuvers. So those kill ratings wouldn’t be only for show and when you get a new plane type you can put your favorite pilot inside to benefit from his experience. Same for ground vehicles, even the remote ones. (they too would have some kind of progression. When a plane is shot down you get a chance to get the pilot back, if he managed to eject. It could even trigger a special mission to get him back if he fell behind enemy lines.

* Based on Paradox’s Heart of Iron 2 (and maybe the others) Scientists also would have names but also domain specializations. Like particle physics, organic chemistry or whatsoever. Each research in the lab would need a few of these domains. You could always assign an unqualified scientist to a research but he would get a time malus. It’s a matter of getting the person for the right job. Acquiring renowned scientists could be a mission in itself or a reward. The same system could be used for engineers.

No more anonymous henchmen. You know and care for everyone.

2.Tactical combat.

Recon : It always annoyed me that we arrive on the battlefield airborne but ignore everything of the map beforehand. Having come flying you should at least know where the buildings are (or the UFO for what matters). If not for satellite feed or aerial recon. I’d love to see a small unarmed recon drone flying high over the battlefield as a new unit (could be shot down by aliens).

Damage localization : the ability to shoot some specific body parts with aimed shots like in Fallout2. Researching an alien would reveal his weak points and you could use it against them. Same for your soldiers, they would lose movement when shot in the leg, accuracy when shot in the arm, sight when losing an eye... They could even lose limbs to be replaced with prosthetics. Prosthetics that could get better with alien tech. (imagine your team of veteran half-cyborgs)

Dropship : The dropship staying there unharmed in the middle of the battlefield seems out of place. Either it should fly to safety after dropping your squad or you might have to defend it. With the pilots being units. (a nice special mission could be having to defend your crash landed dropship until you get a pick-up)

UFOs : I miss the ability to make your own entrance in the hull of UFOs with explosive weapons. Also i haven’t seen multiple floor high rooms in ufos. Having to go through the 3 storeys of the carrier quickly becomes boring. The carrier’s hangar could be 2 floors high. So those jumpsuits would come in handy.

Hills : maybe it’s an engine limitation but every map is flat. I fondly remember the hills from the original games. Would it be possible to add some height differences? Overall, height seems to be underused.

Neutral Units : Neutral military units when met could be taken control of or given some basic orders if in a friendly country. Some neutral soldier you helped could offer to join you at the end of the mission.

3. Global map

I like the look of the new map but the water’s blue seem too light. The previous map conveyed the grimm feeling of the alien invasion better. Also nightlights would be welcomed.

Since the map is the main game interface it looks a bit empty. You could add switchable tactical overlays. (coloring countries based on your rating, summarizing alien activity to find a pattern in their moves,...). Just add stuff that looks cool. Hollywood does that very well. (see http://vimeo.com/64377100 or https://vimeo.com/1797025 for good examples)

Global Politics : what happen to countries that stop funding you? Do they fall to aliens? Do they start their own Alien-fighting corp? Seems there is something to be done there. A few ideas :

At the start of the game each country has it’s own military forces, a set number of troops and plane that you can call for support. Needless to say they quickly become insufficient to facing the growing threat and using them for suicide missions would be a hit in your relations.

When a country stops funding you, it starts it’s own alien fighting program. Competing with you for resources, other countries, support. They might try to get their hands on your most advanced tech. Maybe one of your crew is a spy and you have to get rid of one of your favorite scientists. You might have to repel their invasion of your base. Fighting humans besides the aliens.

We need some way to win those countries back. Some specific missions perhaps or giving them advanced tech.

getting in good terms with a country could net some various rewards besides money : Experienced units, a plane, and old military base a a startpoint for a new base, informations about aliens.

4. Base

Medical healing pods : Once researched and built you assign soldiers to them for faster healing like you would assign them to your dropship.

Training facilities : we really need a way to teach those rookies how to throw a grenade farther than their feet. Managed by one of your veterans. The higher ranked the veteran, the better the training.

I’d love to see a alien break out of his containment cell and spreading terror across the base. An Alien the movie like mission.

[DNK]

2.Recon: It was like this in the original XCOM, and I think it's vital to keeping the game a bit challenging and exciting. That process of discovery of a new map is always a thrill, and given how few maps are in the current game, a rare one.

2.Damage Localization: given how bad accuracy is, aiming for specific parts is just not realistic. That's not really how real-world combat works, aside from the odd sniper.

2.Dropship: it is as it was in the original XCOM, and it's necessary for not starting in the middle of an open field without cover. On harder missions it gives the player a chance to not get slaughtered from the get-go.

2.Hills: totally agree.

4.Base: not sure how it works now, but in XCOM the more strength, the better your throws. Not sure how strength is developed in this game, but likely through offensive actions (shooting, reaction shots, throwing grenades, etc).

[Sathra]

Grenades are being worked on, they use shooting code for LOF atm, so tend to hit stuff like bullets can.

Hills can't really be done due to the engine (it can't handle slopes, stairs have a bunch of problems).

Unique people is beyond the scope of the game, and its too late to add them.

It is/was intended to get special missions to win back regions. Not sure on the status of this at the moment.

[Nixx]

@DNK Recon. I know it was so in the original Xcom but still doesn't feel right. War is won with intelligence first.

Damage Localization, for snipers then.

When i was talking about a training camp, the grenade thing was just an exemple of why we need those. New recruits are awful.

@Sathra Thx for your insight. Is there a list of which additions are planned before release?

[Goetikmagus]

I know I'm just beating a dead horse, here - but whatever happened to procedurally-generated maps? Get in a good procedure, and you could forget both the tedium of playing the same maps over and over (not to mention, you'd free up a lot of time that would otherwise be spent on map design), and the engine would also be easier to mod for interesting and/or unique missions. Heck, I'd help design the procedure for free, as would several others no doubt.

[Sathra]

Not that I know of. There's a bunch of stuff that was planned, but not sure on the status of any of it (also I can't remember them off the top of my head).

[Goetikmagus]

*waves hands in the air* Dur, dur, dur... Sathra, I summon thee! Appear now before me, fair in form, and answer true to my post! (because you posted a split-second after I did, leaving an uncomfortable time gap in the forum... dur, dur, dur!)

[thothkins]

Lots of points, many of which have very long thread histories on the forums, if you'd like balanced thoughts. Mine, on the other hand...

* Planes and vehicles should have pilots inside - not making it in. I like to think that 2 of your Xenonauts are Chinook pilots, who go through to join the others on landing, just before turn 1. Drivers and interceptor pilots must be outsourced by the organisation, supplied by funding nations, as they never get mentioned. Remote control seems unlikely also.

Training seems stunted at the basic training, unfortunately. A shame, as it would have been a very nice addition. If we're very lucky the devs may leave some mod opportunities for it. take trooper X away for Y days and provide Z reward, from a list.

* Scientists also would have names but also domain specializations. Like particle physics, organic chemistry or whatsoever. - Also not going in. I hazily recall the reason as it being too fidgety and mainly because it detracted form the game's real focus - the battlescape and it's soldiers. I really liked hiring in X-Com Apocalypse, so I'm with you on this one. Pilot and driver skills would have been an upgrade from that.

Recon ..arrive on the battlefield airborne but ignore everything of the map beforehand.

It's supposed to add to the suspense of the mission. Consider that one method of success is to capture and hold the UFO. If you knew from the start where it was, you'd go straight for it, ignoring the rest of the map.

Damage localization : the ability to shoot some specific body parts with aimed shots

Xenonauts doesn't have locations for wounds to be healed by the medi-kit, never mind anything else. General alien research gives a to bonus against them. Had it been in then it would have been interesting to head shot using the sniper rifle. I can;t say I miss these things terribly here though.

Cybernetics comes up every now and again. Not in the game research. I'd prefer to see cybernetic aliens as per Floaters in the first X-Com before Xenonauts could get them really. If not that, then there would have to be some alien balance to it. I still want hybrids like Apocalypse, but that's even more out of place here (he says thinking of a Xenonaut mission into the alien vats)

Dropship: The dropship staying there unharmed in the middle of the battlefield seems out of place. - Ah, but if the pilots are Xenonuats, then they can't fly it out. It can't actually be blown up that I'm aware of anyway, so there''s no in game threat to it. I rarely see aliens close enough to it to test this out fully, but I'm fairly sure it can't. A mission against hordes where the troops have to fall back to a rendezvous point would be pretty interesting though.

UFOs : I miss the ability to make your own entrance in the hull of UFOs I miss the really broken up UFOs that you had to be very careful approaching as the aliens would be able to fire out form the various open parts. Alas, part of the way the game ended up, although I think the devs looked into multiple access points, to see if it could be feasible.

Hills maybe it’s an engine limitation but every map is flat. Another one that was tried, but found to be unworkable. I miss them, but general comments on those threads suggested I missed them more than a lot of others There are stairs to climb though

As for joining neutrals, I think having local forces at all was considered to be the goal in Xenonauts, which it has achieved quite well. The weapon upgrade is also a very nice touch for them.

Global map- I'm waiting to see what the new UI is like in practice. I don;t know how the funding screen is going to work. I've a feeling it may be charts, rather than overlays, but you never know. Modding the map will be murder if it's overlays though I''m sure there will be more locations added in due course to the map.

Global Politics: what happen to countries that stop funding you? Do they fall to aliens? Do they start their own Alien-fighting corps? Presently, it would seem that they go over to the dark side. It's hard to say what's going on there as you simply don;t get the pennies. It could be anything. That they're not all mind controlled alien slaves is suggested by the hint that there may be a win or bust recovery mission to get the region back on side. I'd love to see a range of missions and political conflicts, but they fall out with the game's focus.

Medical healing pods: Have other X-Clones not had advanced medbays? Not reason why not, although getting the money to pay for it right now seems tough.

Training facilities I'd love to have seen more of this, but it just didn't really work out for the devs. It was supposed to go entirely at some point, but basic training is still hanging in there (may not live into the new UI).

we really need a way to teach those rookies how to throw a grenade farther than their feet.

There's no throwing stat for them to get better at, unlike the OG.

I’d love to see a alien break out of his containment cell and spreading terror across the base. - Alien Containment seems to be a cardboard box in the lab somewhere. Aliens hate cardboard. Another thing I miss, as I got a real sense that the research was getting somewhere once I could catch them. Management of it was occasionally fiddly though.

[Sathra]

There is an image for an advanced healing centre, but I don't see any way to actually unlock it. I might just add it when base assaults work properly.

[thothkins]

hah, it was this game I did a comparison of base facilities when bored a while ago, and it's all a blur now.

[DNK]

UFOs : I miss the ability to make your own entrance in the hull of UFOs I miss the really broken up UFOs that you had to be very careful approaching as the aliens would be able to fire out form the various open parts. Alas, part of the way the game ended up, although I think the devs looked into multiple access points, to see if it could be feasible.

Why can't there be multiple access points?

Hills maybe it’s an engine limitation but every map is flat. Another one that was tried, but found to be unworkable. I miss them, but general comments on those threads suggested I missed them more than a lot of others There are stairs to climb though .

What is the issue with hills? It's such a missing component.

[Sathra]

The engine really doesn't like half-height stuff. So the slopes needed would work really oddly. For an example, there are still a few bugs with stairs and they've been worked on for ages.

[Wrath_IX]

There is a feature that I have been wondering if anyone has considered for adding into this game "Continuous Turn Based Combat" (CTB). CBT is a throw back to an older squad combat game that some of you might remember "Fallout Tactics"

The system basically made it so that TU's regenerated over a continuous period of time and battles happened in near real time.

it allowed things like setting your soldiers combat disposition to be one of three settings. Passive: would not shoot, Neutral: would only start attacking enemies if fired upon, and Aggressive: would fire at enemies as soon as they were sighted.

The only reason I bring this up is that it made some levels of the game really intense with rapid dynamic firefights going on.

Now I know that the games engine might not be compatible with this but I am suggesting it anyway since it would be an interesting Optional system for the game.

Also on a side note Civilians and local forces: it would be nice if, once you reached them/Got near them you could take control of them and give them orders. So you could tell them to get out of they way or stop running towards the aliens.

This could also make for several new and interesting game dynamics such as rescue missions where your focus is not kill the aliens but rather get the civilians out .

Also this control/rescue option could give an interesting mechanic. Conscripting/recruiting from those you have rescued. so in this example you rescue a handful of local forces and civilians from alien attack. depending on your rating in the battle some % of those rescued request to join the Xenonauts and help however they can. So local forces would become potentially free new soldiers and civilians would potentially become scientists or technicians. since you have limited capacity for any of these it would not really break the balance since if you were at full capacity or simply did not want additional personnel you could simply decline their offer.

Also this would not remove the upkeep cost from these recruits only bypass the initial buy cost

[thothkins]

CTB: So would that pretty much be a preset reaction fire response? There are some situations you don't want to shoot (prized alien officer) so you set to passive?

Orders: I think having local forces at all was the improvement that Xenonauts was going for. Actually getting to order them around, may fall out with the scope of things.

Of course, perhaps an alien mind control effect could be linked to a device (let's call it a loudspeaker for the sake of it). Said device when used (for minimal TUs), could control the target and get it to move. Just a thought.

[RuskiVolkov]

I could see some of these suggestions in a mod, but I don't think most of it will be put in game. I imagine the scientist specializations aspect wouldn't be possible at all (though i'm not sure how much the game will allow itself to be edited, maybe someone with a lot of time and dedication could make some sort of very sophisticated science managing system).

What I really want to see (I doubt it will be in the final game, but maybe in a future mod or something) is an equivalent to your drop ship idea. Three months in the coming war you send out a troop carrier and it gets shot down in the middle of the woods somewhere in the soviet union. So you saddle up a second chopper to get your boys out of there, but when the rescue chopper is a few hundred miles away, you get this message:

"It seems as though the aliens have recently learned that the downed helicopter is one of ours. Enemy spacecraft have been confirmed to have entered orbit around the site. With any luck they'll hold out until *name of second helicopter* has arrived."

and then a mission prompt pops up. If you choose to do it, there will be a random roll for how many soldiers survived, how healthy those soldiers are, and how well they're armed (i doubt everyone would be able to hold on to their weapons in a crash). Victory conditions would be to either kill all enemy units, or hold out until the 20th turn, when evac arrives.