V19 Experimental Build 2 available!

[Xenomorph]

The playthrough of the current build has been quite enjoyable, and i'd like to share some thoughts, based on gameplay until December.

The Geoscape is not as bad or unbalanced as it seemed, at all. Aaron pulled out some nice stuff out of his bag of tricks

UFO spawn seems to be more balanced, with a bit of everything happening in waves, and not as much of just UFO air superiority for a whole month(s) . Seems like in every wave there's a UFO that can be shot down for a mission, along with air superiority (bomber+fighters, 3x fighters) and solo fliers.

As for air combat, i have to admit it's better then it ever was. The missile/torpedo range/speed tweaks allow for other tactical approaches, and i haven't had as many problems with losing or getting planes severely damaged, allowing for more ans faster sorties, and a more effective AO air control.

But...

UFO squad compositions are basically the same, so have to be how they're approached - for any 3x3, the mig is the king right now. The condor and the Corsair look obvious as the choice for chasing stragglers or solo UFO, but the Condor will require some use of the afterburner to catch up with fighters and heavy fighters. None of these seem to be good alternatives for anything else, the Condor is fragile, and the Corsair has astronomically high repairs times (at 94% and 30h left), too risky to be used on missions where it will take damage, for now.

Still, not knowing what we're fighting before getting there seems a bit artificial (but surely opinions diverge a lot there). December/January seems to be when air combat escalates, depending some on luck (i guess), and it would make sense to have means allowing for a better ID of UFO/UFO squads, something more then just very small/small/medium, etc. Maybe using a cheaper and unarmed/unarmored variation of the Condor (thus faster) as a scout? Sounds a bit rough, but not unrealistic. I wouldn't mind using a hangar slot for that, at all.

And...

Cannons - i hope cannons will get some work. I didn't check if there was any change in damage to compensate for the reduction to 50 rounds (avoiding messing with the files and be tempted to cheat...), but still, 50 is too low of a number.

Starting air combat - i'd LOVE to have the option to start air combat with planes at minimum speed. It's the first thing i always do (maybe i'm not the only one?), and it gets repetitive.

Leading UFO - it's something else i always do (hopefully not alone in this as well ) manually setting course "that way" towards the UFO, not just click and let it do it's thing, it leads to unnecessary maneuvering. Having the option to set planes to head straight to the UFO (instead of where it's going to be) would be great - something like one click for normal chase, 2 clicks for object chase.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Xenomorph

[Korpah]

<3 more changes to test!!! keep it up

tip always validate the files before playing a new build

[CellNav]

Still, not knowing what we're fighting before getting there seems a bit artificial (but surely opinions diverge a lot there). December/January seems to be when air combat escalates, depending some on luck (i guess), and it would make sense to have means allowing for a better ID of UFO/UFO squads, something more then just very small/small/medium, etc. Maybe using a cheaper and unarmed/unarmored variation of the Condor (thus faster) as a scout? Sounds a bit rough, but not unrealistic. I wouldn't mind using a hangar slot for that, at all.

I spent five years in air defense, your eyeballs are the only means to make an ID on an unknown.

Leading UFO - it's something else i always do (hopefully not alone in this as well ) manually setting course "that way" towards the UFO, not just click and let it do it's thing, it leads to unnecessary maneuvering. Having the option to set planes to head straight to the UFO (instead of where it's going to be) would be great - something like one click for normal chase, 2 clicks for object chase.

I agree ... Remove the leading UFO logic and move it to the intercept phase on the Geo, that's where it would work best.

Edited June 23, 2013 by CellNav

[Kurruk]

Still, not knowing what we're fighting before getting there seems a bit artificial (but surely opinions diverge a lot there). December/January seems to be when air combat escalates, depending some on luck (i guess), and it would make sense to have means allowing for a better ID of UFO/UFO squads, something more then just very small/small/medium, etc. Maybe using a cheaper and unarmed/unarmored variation of the Condor (thus faster) as a scout? Sounds a bit rough, but not unrealistic. I wouldn't mind using a hangar slot for that, at all.

I spent five years in air defense, your eyeballs are the only means to make an ID on an unknown.

Wee I do remember that in one of the x-com type of games there was a tech down the line, that would allow you to build some dish in the base that would in turn gather and decode/unscramble the message that allowed you to have more information about incomming alien crafts like the exact type and the crew. Not sure if that made radars obsolete or not.

[ThunderGr]

Wee I do remember that in one of the x-com type of games there was a tech down the line, that would allow you to build some dish in the base that would in turn gather and decode/unscramble the message that allowed you to have more information about incomming alien crafts like the exact type and the crew. Not sure if that made radars obsolete or not.

The Hyperwave decoder. As far as I remember, you still had to have the radars, but it would decode the aliens communications and give you exact information about the alien ship, the numbers and type of the crew, its mission etc. I hope we will get one in this game, too.

[CellNav]

And...

Cannons - i hope cannons will get some work. I didn't check if there was any change in damage to compensate for the reduction to 50 rounds (avoiding messing with the files and be tempted to cheat...), but still, 50 is too low of a number.

I checked the AV.AUTOCANNON stats from v18 with v19_2 ... Damage in v18 was 20, v19_2 damage is 10 ... Ouch!

[Tsabotavoc]

Wee I do remember that in one of the x-com type of games there was a tech down the line, that would allow you to build some dish in the base that would in turn gather and decode/unscramble the message that allowed you to have more information about incomming alien crafts like the exact type and the crew. Not sure if that made radars obsolete or not.

It made them obsolete.

[Dranak]

Still, not knowing what we're fighting before getting there seems a bit artificial (but surely opinions diverge a lot there). December/January seems to be when air combat escalates, depending some on luck (i guess), and it would make sense to have means allowing for a better ID of UFO/UFO squads, something more then just very small/small/medium, etc. Maybe using a cheaper and unarmed/unarmored variation of the Condor (thus faster) as a scout? Sounds a bit rough, but not unrealistic. I wouldn't mind using a hangar slot for that, at all.

You can also ID many UFOs by the size/speed shown on the popup.

[Sathra]

There is a hyperwave-like room in the game, but due to bugs in alien bases you can't get the item needed for it I think.

Also in HF2 very few ufo's have armour so the reduced damage isn't as much of a problem.

[CellNav]

You can also ID many UFOs by the size/speed shown on the popup.

Good point! ... I fear that Hyperwave technology may come too late on the scene to do much good anyway

On another note ... Do you guys think adding an intermediate aircraft type that follows the Condor with Aim-7 Sparrows? Or simply add a cheap Sparrow weapon at some point with no change to aircraft tech?

[Xenomorph]

Also in HF2 very few ufo's have armour so the reduced damage isn't as much of a problem.

You're right, it's not. It's a good example of how simplifying things can make them better.

[Lightzy]

I would very much like to see air combat evolve, but also with a mechanism that means losing it isn't game over.

Having airplanes limp back to base when over-damaged is the best cleanest option

[ThunderGr]

I would very much like to see air combat evolve, but also with a mechanism that means losing it isn't game over.

Having airplanes limp back to base when over-damaged is the best cleanest option

Expecting to win the game when you lose the air battle? I do not think so. I do not know about you, but I think that losing the air battles should not mean that they have to become easier, it means that we have to become better at fighting them.

[MyThos]

Expecting to win the game when you lose the air battle? I do not think so. I do not know about you, but I think that losing the air battles should not mean that they have to become easier, it means that we have to become better at fighting them.

For me the air battle is a nice supplement but the core is research/construction/budget management in global view and the tactical combat on the other side. I could rather well live with the simplified approach done in X-Com (not XCOM) and any additional options are nice but should not define the core gameplay

My 2 cents only ...

[Mytheos]

The first month seems ok, you tend to take a little damage but as long as you time your missile shot right it isnt too bad.

Gives a sense of threat now.

However on month 2 (Normal btw) Even hitting a Scout with 2 Avalanches doesnt take one down, or 3 sidewinders.

So am I missing something or are we not expected to be able to take down Scout craft on month 2?

Or are we expected to loose one craft and then try to finish them off with another?

I seriously cant believe either can be the case.

[ThunderGr]

The first month seems ok, you tend to take a little damage but as long as you time your missile shot right it isnt too bad.

Gives a sense of threat now.

However on month 2 (Normal btw) Even hitting a Scout with 2 Avalanches doesnt take one down, or 3 sidewinders.

So am I missing something or are we not expected to be able to take down Scout craft on month 2?

Or are we expected to loose one craft and then try to finish them off with another?

I seriously cant believe either can be the case.

Perhaps we are supposed to start sending squadrons instead of single aircrafts.

[kefeinzel]

We need a fake F-14 to go somewhere in the early aircraft tree

[amerelium]

Well, tried the 19.2 beta, and found it quite unplayable, as the screen is locked into a widescreen aspect ratio (got a 4:3 screen) and is all zoomed out, making most of the text unreadable, with my desktop background showing at the top and bottom...

[Mytheos]

Perhaps we are supposed to start sending squadrons instead of single aircrafts.

I must be having a bad time, I have 3 planes and havent had any of them repaired at the same time this month.

[thothkins]

Well, tried the 19.2 beta, and found it quite unplayable, as the screen is locked into a widescreen aspect ratio (got a 4:3 screen) and is all zoomed out, making most of the text unreadable, with my desktop background showing at the top and bottom...

Yeah, i found it odd first time, but it seemed to fix itself when I tried a second time.

[Yevgeniy]

Thank you for experiments. %)

[Tericc]

As for the planes my Foxtrots take everything down. Fighters, scouts.. only corvets & higher might require another fly by to crash them.

I don't think its ment to be this way but the fox trots completely obsolete the condors and all you have to do is time the second missile volley vs fighters and you will never be damaged.

[Magus]

The thing that really gets me is that it takes 11+ hours to refuel a plane - thats insanely long (unless the pilot goes for a nap ).

[loquid]

I dont know if this is a bug or just the game being wonky at this point...

but i am in at the end of December (first year) and i had a med and 2 fighters show up. so i sent 2 waves of planes at them staggered a bit... the first wave was 2 condors with alenium missiles to take out the fighters then retread away from the med and the second wave was 3 foxtrots with alenium torpedoes for the med...

well both waves of my planes got to the alien ships at the same exact time. the game loaded BOTH aerial combats at the same time, both stacked up on top of one another. at first it loaded both squadron's up on the same tactical screen, but i only had one set of ships on the right of my screen. once i clicked on the map to tell my planes what to do, the 2 condors dissipated from the tactical map and there was some audio jiter as the game played on. not being in the tactical position i wanted to be in i told my foxtrots to retreat and as they proceeded to exit the map i head the condors engaging in combat with the fighters and the medium, but i could not see, select or control them. once the foxtrots exited the map the game froze and then crashed to desktop.

again, i am not sure whether to describe this as a bug or as something else. nor do i know exactly where to post it if it is.

[Sathra]

Its a known bug. Double intercept bug to be specific. It was due to the MiGs being faster than Condors.