V19 Experimental Build 2 available!

[Basher]

EDIT 2: Well, having played about with missile ranges, it seems that I was wrong. If the missile is set for a range of 4500 or more, it hits the light scout (even if evading) if fired at max range. Any less, and the missile always vanishes just before it would the light scout (while the light scout is making an evade manouevre). Even more interesting, set the range for 10000, fire a missile at max range, then fire a missile at the range that it previous would vanish at and even if the light scout evades, the missile will not disappear. Something to do with the range, perhaps?

I think its working as intended as is. As I saw, the scout dodging was perfect clear, just like the human fighters. About the ranges, I guess u're suposed to get weird results when messing with it.

[Tsabotavoc]

I see a large problem with the new aircombat. As a Fighter UFO can simply down each of my interceptors with one shot it forces you to use your rockets to down it. As soon as you have researched Alenium Weapons it is nearly impossible to simply down one UFO without complete destruction.

Due to the new airfight system it is way too risky to outrun the enemy intercepters.

[ThunderGr]

I see a large problem with the new aircombat. As a Fighter UFO can simply down each of my interceptors with one shot it forces you to use your rockets to down it. As soon as you have researched Alenium Weapons it is nearly impossible to simply down one UFO without complete destruction.

Due to the new airfight system it is way too risky to outrun the enemy intercepters.

Alien Fighters are not supposed to be assaultable. They just get destroyed.

[Sathra]

I had the Chinook get randomly damaged and a Scout shown with 86% damage on the first intercept (though judging by the missile damage the shown info was a display bug).

Anyone else have this or was it due to my messing with the files?

[Tsabotavoc]

Alien Fighters are not supposed to be assaultable. They just get destroyed.

Cool. That means - beginning with month two I have no landed UFO missions. Sounds good.

But in general: I like the new patch. Only problem is that i get in real financial troubles

Edited June 22, 2013 by Tsabotavoc

[Sathra]

Huh, Scouts are messed up in ground combat. Like the outer skin is off by a tile compared to the inside.

[Shima]

I'm a bit confused about reworked hidden movement. Is it supposed to block view of allies and enemies my men can actually see?

[Rebel44]

I'm a bit confused about reworked hidden movement. Is it supposed to block view of allies and enemies my men can actually see?

I had this problem already in 19.1 experimental

[Xenomorph]

1) I think that nerfing sidewinders and cannons for the condors will make them obsolete really quick, with nothing to fill the gap. That will leave Migs as the main intercept craft. And as i look at it, we will have a "melee" disposable condors, and a sitting duck mig, that will likely be hit EVERYTIME anything but scouts will get in combat, which happens very soon. And everything will stall.

As for buffing up torpedo speed, that may only accelerate how quick condors will become obsolete.

2) Chances are we will adapt one way or the other, but i look ahead and see the huge financial problem this will cause. Damaged planes are grounded, not enough funds to build hangars and planes, it will be happy times sitting back watching while UFO roam all over the place.

Multiple sorties works well on paper, but not on the geoscape. Planes need to refuel, too. And we don't have a ton of them.

As challenging and awesome this might be for them die-hard who like impossible things, this will cause frustration.

3) It confuses me a bit why migs are faster then condors. Migs are bombers, condors are dogfighters. Shouldn't dogfighters ALWAYS be faster then bombers? I think so, but maybe it's just me. Or maybe this is just being overlooked.

4) It seems to be a fact that migs always get more aggro over condors. If dogfighters were faster then bombers, we could actually have some fun letting the mig take the aggro and flank the UFO with the condors, then let go of the sidewinders and the cannons. But why make condors faster? So it doesn't get boring, and we don't have to make unnecessary adjustments to the migs flight path while it leads the UFO. Better if we can just do this quick and carry on. But why not to use afterburners? Because the plane might have to make another run soon. The more fuel it has left, the faster it can go out. Afterburners should not be something that MUST be used, as i see it.

5) Fact is air combat will ALWAYS be the same thing. There is no such thing as a gazillion different tactics, just a gazillion ways to make everything go wrong if we press the space bar a fraction of a second later, because it will happen. Making it very tactical and complicated will be just like having a square drawn on the screen and divided in 4, them click on each one clockwise over and over again. It will get repetitive. Why was air combat in eu1994 so basic? Because the devs knew we just wanted to get that isth on the ground and kill aliens. It was all planned. Apocalypse was a totally different thing, and i actually like it a lot: just send as many as you have. A lot. Buy bikes, cars, dont matter, just get a lot of them, kill things faster, and minimize losses. Chaos is fun.

I'm not against air combat being a bit more juicy, quite faithful it will be just right in the end

Ive been wondering if balancing is going the right way. It looks like difficulty is going up with each build, or its about the same with different colors, which makes things a bit of a chore with bug hunting on experimentals, or a mood killer for more casual players that want to give it a try.

Why not to tone things down some, and go from there? Gameplay will be faster, and so will be spotting bugs. Buggy or not, it's way easier to forgive and forget those little CTD or other issues if we can just burn through things without having to pull hair out at every corner.

-------------

And before starting saying i'm wrong bla bla, just think about it for a bit.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Xenomorph

[ThunderGr]

3) It confuses me a bit why migs are faster then corsairs. Migs are bombers, corsair are dogfighters. Shouldn't dogfighters ALWAYS be faster then bombers? I think so, but maybe it's just me. Or maybe this is just being overlooked.

According to the wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29

"The Mikoyan MiG-29 (Russian: Микоян и Гуревич МиГ-29; NATO reporting name: "Fulcrum") is a fourth-generation jet fighter aircraft designed in the Soviet Union. Developed by the Mikoyan design bureau as an air superiority fighter during the 1970s, the MiG-29, along with the larger Sukhoi Su-27, was developed to counter new American fighters such as the McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle, and the General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon.[6] The MiG-29 entered service with the Soviet Air Force in 1983; unofficially, some Soviet pilots made use of the NATO designation "Fulcrum" for the type.[7]"

[Xenomorph]

I mean condor, not corsair. Silly me.

The mig32 is a modified mig31, with more armor, bigger tanks, and adapted to be a bomber - fiction. Like the F-17 condor is fiction. No need to pull out real numbers.

And the game setting is counter fictitious UFO, not american planes.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Xenomorph

[ThunderGr]

I mean condor, not corsair. Silly me.

Still, the MiG-29 was a dogfighter that was later upgraded to multirole by adjusting some of the weaponry. They were hardly ever "bombers".

[Tsabotavoc]

I say it in short: The new Airfight system is shit. I had two months in a row only fighters and therefor no possibility to earn money. Now the sky is roamed by 3-Fighter packs (with only one MIG-Interceptor) and corvettes.

Shortly said: Its unplayable this way.

[Kurruk]

With new build I found it harder to tell day or night once zoomed. The night shadow is now way too light.

As for the fights with first crafts, I found it necessary to have two planes for one craft. Then blocking all sidewinders from firing, except one (to use up his dodging), once close to finishing his roll, I enable all three rockets and he's down. Not sure what kind of tactic would be required for other crafts.

EDIT: noticed also that almost all countries relations are bad (or poor), even the ones with positive predicted change (still first month).

Edited June 22, 2013 by Kurruk

[Xenomorph]

The HP for the Condor are messed up on my game: the cannon is on the right missile HP, missile in the cannon HP. cannot switch them around.

[ThunderGr]

The HP for the Condor are messed up on my game: the cannon is on the right missile HP, missile in the cannon HP. cannot switch them around.

Just reported that as a bug.

[4Aces]

Then blocking all sidewinders from firing, except one (to use up his dodging), once close to finishing his roll, I enable all three rockets and he's down. Not sure what kind of tactic would be required for other crafts.

EDIT: noticed also that almost all countries relations are bad (or poor), even the ones with positive predicted change (still first month).

That is how the tactical combat shines. You have to figure out which weapons to launch at exactly which time, and in which order. Large craft take out the first two shots, so use the weakest ammo first, then follow up with the heavies.

The country relations has not worked for a few builds. Just look at the money adjustment to see if the country is getting angry.

[Basher]

I'm with 4 bases and 16 airsphips right now in this build. The air superiority struggle is maddening fun. Too bad that sometimes you gotta do a ground combat.... If this game gets the ground combat quality of Silent Storm, well, GG

Edited June 23, 2013 by Basher

[Kurruk]

If this game gets the ground combat quality of Silent Storm, well, GG

One can only wish. Don't think it's gonna happen tho, looking in 3d how 3/4 of a house almost evaporated because you failed at disarming the door ... and now it looks like open pit mine with walls to the roof and hole to the basement

[RavenX]

Sounds great!! One thing to note, last version I shot down a UFO in Cuba and when I entered the battle it put me on a arctic map. Pretty sure it doesn't snow in Cuba, especially since I live in Florida

[4Aces]

Snow in Cuba would be right up the alien's method of operation (messing with us). Importing all the buildings, trees, ice water, and corrugated buildings would be a bit much though.

[loquid]

I realize this is my first post here, but i have been playing the game for quite some time now (before the firaxis game came out last year). I have been a devout x-com and clone player for years, apoc was my first x-com game and still one of my all time fave games ever.

So far I am liking the new UI and how it looks over-all. it will get better, and that's what counts.

the new world map is nice, but as someone already said the day-night cycle is difficult at times to see where it is night and where it is day.

As for the new air combat... I can live with the new ranges for the missiles and A-cannon, but i feel that cutting the A-cannon rounds down to 50 is a bit unfair... unless you up the damage a fair bit. there is something to be said about being realistic, as well as unrealistic and i think that 50 rounds is on the unrealistic side.

with that said, i have yet to make it past the first month and i have no problems downing the light-scouts and scouts by simply sending two condors and staggering the missiles by holding them all and firing one, waiting a second or so and then firing off the rest. the scouts try to dodge the first one but the next 3 hit home and it goes down. i also wait until i am almost within their range of fire so that even when they dodge the first missile it still almost always hits because its so close.

the new hidden movement screen... i hate it, and i love it at the same time. what i like is that its now part of the ground combat UI itself as a pop-up. its a bit more immersive and it does less to break the continuity of being in command of the situation.

what i hate is that i cant even see whats going on in areas that i have clear line of sight over... I.E. a soldier sees a alien... the alien runs up to my soldier and shoots him in the face (granted it doesn't happen like that but lets say it did)... its all hidden! granted there is nothing i can do to stop it, BUT if 'I' (the omnipotent commander) see everything the soldiers see, then i should be able to see what is happening to them as it happens and not have to be forced to wait until the next turn to see who is now dead, who did a reaction fire, who is bleeding, etc.

OMG this build is not very stable at all (at least for me). it is constantly crashing (albeit less than the non-experimental builds, but still). it seems that it is crashing mostly in ground combat. one specific crash that i have been able to reproduce is that when i have a soldier with a full inventory using a rocket launcher with both HE and STUN rounds drop something (say a riot shield... for weight and TU training) so that next turn they can reload or change out to a STUN round vs. a HE round. the next turn i try to go into that soldiers inventory to change to the STUN round (the soldier is standing on the riot shield) the game crashes immediately.

I have had this happen 3 times in a row now, twice in one mission and once in another. and it seems to happen every time without exception so far.

I dont know if anybody else is having an issue with the geo-buttons for going into your base, research, MFG etc... invariably they will break and not work and the only way to get into my base is to click on the base icon on the map itself. saving, exiting the game and reloading works to fix them... sometimes.

as far as the balancing past the first month, i can not say anything as to that just yet since i have not gotten past the first month as of yet, but hope to soon.

[mickeybrickz]

Would it be too much to ask to be able to spawn a base in Crete ? Long time X-Com fan, love how you've made a game that's a faithful recreation with enough meat to be its own game.

[Sathra]

Riot shields have a bug where they will crash the game if you stand over one and open the inventory.

The bug where you can't click on the tabs can be worked around by clicking on the 'build new base' tab, then right-clicking to cancel.

[Simmo753]

anyone else not being given the alenium to research?