So I need some input...

[Sathra]

Okay, I had an idea for V6 of my mod, but not sure if its a good idea.

The basic plan is that Plasma and MAG weapons would require the alien version of the weapon to build i.e a plasma sniper would need 1 alien sniper, and a MAG rifle would need 2 alien plasma rifles. Heavy plasmas are basically machineguns already, and Carbines can just use rifles. Pretty similar. Might add laser weapons to this too, but at the moment thinking no.

There's a problem though, alien pistols and rifles become extremely rare around mid-game. The workaround I'm thinking of is to have a greater mix of alien ranks in the larger UFO's so you always get a few of the various kinds of weapons in nearly any ship (well, not snipers but Harridans are common enough if you don't try to equip half your team with sniper weapons).

The thing is, it would make the later ships much easier due to the number of Guards/Soldiers I'd have to replace Warriors with to get a good number of plasma rifles to spawn. Especially noticeable with Androns and Sebillians. You could save the rifles from early game, but I don't like to work on the basis of players knowing stuff like that. Also just tons of Heavy Plasma.

You'd also not get much or any income on the end mission screen, but I can just make corpses saleable and reduce the income from weapons to vanilla levels to compensate. And players would have to sell the alien weapons manually.

So, thoughts.

[Gauddlike]

Would it fit if you had a two step process?

Each alien weapon has a workshop job that strips it into two or three separate components and the human versions are built using a combination of those components?

Combine those bits in whatever quantity you like to create the human weapons.

Add extra parts for the higher tiers.

It doesn't matter then if you have a specific weapon to create the generic rifles and pistols.

You could add other materials, like an advanced plasma focus to the snipers or a coolant system to the heavy plasma that are required for the human version to link how many of the special weapons can be produced to how many are recovered.

Say an alien pistol just gives a plasma accelerator when you deconstruct it, a rifle gives two and the heavy plasma has four of them plus a coolant system.

To make the human plasma pistol you need two accelerators, the rifle needs three, the MG requires five plus two coolant and so on.

You can alter the numbers to balance the amount of weapons you are recovering with how many you want the player to be able to make.

[Sathra]

I think I can do that....yes, it won't be pretty in the files, but it should work.

That's an awesome idea Gauddlike. Would add 6 more manufacture projects and a bunch of new items, but hey, the mod is full of that stuff.

I would never have though of such a neat solution!

[Gauddlike]

Just moved on a step on from your initial idea.

Are you planning on continuing the same sort of idea for other items?

Advanced ground and air vehicles using UFO components or drone parts and so on.

[MisterLock]

I don't know why you would have to do this...In my opinion it would be way better just to leave it as is...I mean I agree with the Seeing some low rank aliens even in the late game but I disagree on the new weapon research system...

[Gauddlike]

He doesn't have to do it, it is just another step in his mod.

You can always stick to earlier versions or just play the vanilla game if it isn't the way you would like to play.

[a333]

I think that's neat. You'll have a dependency on the alien weapons, plus this will nicely explain why the new weapons are researched relatively fast (essentially they are just a bunch of alien components wired together in a creative way).

Simple components is an elegant decision too.

To make things a little easier, can you make the strip process automatic, like the autopsies are made now? Although that will not save you from adding those 6 manufacturing projects..

Also i'd suggest to allow producing these basic components albeit at cost high enough to create ambiguous choice between farming saucers or losing some money for exchange of manufacturing stability.

[Sathra]

I don't think I can make the disassembly automatic. It doesn't like manufacturing times less than 1 day.

I guess I could make the items manufacturable from scratch, though that would add another 4 or so projects.

[WalrusJones]

I feel that it is a needless complication.

A way to recycle alien weaponry?

Eh... Maybe.

However, Even then, dissecting alien weaponry for resources would be something I would prefer as a tech (Due to the relative complexity of alien weaponry, properly recycling them takes alloy fabrication methods, and a good knowledge of their more advanced weapons.)

It would create an interesting balance between saving the weapons for resources later when you need it, and selling them.

Edited June 22, 2013 by WalrusJones

[Sathra]

About half the mod is technically needless complication. I didn't actually need to give each tier different 'flavours', as even with the flavour the next tier is always better than the previous one. I just did it because I thought it was fun/interesting/funny. Same with the Power Cores.

[Sathra]

Okay, had a think about it and here's what I've got so far. The rationalisation of it is that while humans can copy the alien weapon basics, they can't miniaturise some things as effectively as the aliens can, so using alien weapon parts allows for more efficient human weapon designs for infantry and vehicles. For aircraft weapons size isn't as much as a factor, so they won't use these parts (they will use Alenium in V6, because I forgot to add it in V5).

4 basic components:

-Power Converter: This is the widget that takes the power from the cell and turns it into plasma. This is used in every human manufacturable weapon in varying numbers (so laser, plasma and MAG). I'm not sold on the name though, its too generic. Taking suggestions. Every alien weapon contains 1 or more of these.

-Electromagnetic Array: This is the rings of electromagnets that focus and project the plasma. Plasma and MAG weapons use these, and come from every alien weapon besides the alien plasma pistol. The plasma pistol's one is too small and doesn't focus effectively.

-Heatsink Network: This is the thingy that collects waste heat and moves it to the heatsinks for dispersal so the weapon doesn't melt. It comes comes from HP, BR and PC. Its used in all the MG's, plasma precision and all MAG. Alternative name is Heat Displacement Assembly, or Displacement Assembly if I can't fit the full name.

-Holographic Optics: Basically as the name says. Its a fancy sniper scope. Only comes from the alien Sniper Plasma and is used in the Plasma and MAG Precision rifles.

The project to disassemble an alien weapon appears after you research one (I'll also change the Plasma precision rifle to need Alien Sniper Plasma and make a new Xenopedia report for it, or I won't, I dunno.) The project will take up to 10 man days (avg of 5, so 1 day with 5 engineers), and produce the various components + some alloys. 1 for most of the weapons, and 2 for Cannons. Up to 10k for the project, average of 5k.

Here's the breakdown of the alien weapons:

Pistol: 1 Converter, 1 Alloys.

Rifle: 1 Converter, 1 Array, 1 Alloys.

Heavy Plasma: 1 Converter, 1 Array, 1 Heatsink, 1 Alloys

Sniper: 1 Optics, 1 Converter, 1 Array, 1 Alloys.

Cannon: 2 Converter, 2 Heatsinks, 1 Array, 2 Alloys.

Battle Rifle: 1 Converter, 2 Arrays, 1 Heatsink, 1 Alloys.

Components can be sold, but the all the components from a weapon won't add up to the sale value of the complete weapon. They're fancy and all, but the whole thing would be worth more to the backers.

Laser Weapons: All use Converters, with 2 for Precision and Scatter. Scatter also uses a Heatsink (You can get HP from Corvettes).

Plasma Weapons: All use Arrays and Converters, with Optics for the Precision, Heatsink and 2 Converters for the Caster, and Converter and Heatsink for the Carbine.

MAG Weapons: All use 2 Arrays, Heatsinks and Converters. Precision uses an Optic, and Storm uses 2 Heatsinks, and 2 Converters.

Vehicle weapons all use Heatsinks (2 for plasma and laser, 3 for MAG), with the plasma and MAG using Arrays (1 and 2 respectively). They also use Converters (2 for plasma and laser, and 3 for MAG). Since the Scimitar and Hyperion are built with energy weapons as standard, they will require the needed components to be built.

Corpses will be autosold for 5k, 10 for Officers and 20 for Leaders. Androns and Drones start at 10k, since they don't have Leaders and an advanced robot is worth money.

Alien weapons themselves will be worth 5k less than V5, since now you get money for corpses and I bumped it to give more cashflow. Human advanced weapons will also be cheaper since you are literally burning money to make them. I'll probably drop them by a few 10k lots.

If you've read all this, give some feedback (especially if you can think of better names for the components).

[a333]

May be power converter isn't so bad? Laser and MAG techs aren't using plasma directly, but all of the techs are electricity-based. So the power converter can be something that turns alenium into electricity (since alenium cells are constructed from, erm, alenium and not from some abstract power). And generic is not always bad.

Heatsink is a heatsink, you can call it Heat Dissipator, Coolant system, or Thermal reductor. Heat displacement is fine too.

[Sathra]

Hmm, thermal reductor sounds pretty good. Gives the jist of what it does, while at the same time being vague.

[smoitessier]

er for Power Converter, I want to say "something" Diode

Flux Diode? I suck at electricity

and for the Array,

Gravimetric Array

see this post

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/4826-Rename-Antimatter-in-plasma-mechanics-to-Graviton

[Sathra]

Its not actually the graviton part though. I considered have that as an item, but it'd only be used for plasma weapons so it'd be useless for most of the game. So I just went with the Heatsink instead.

[Gauddlike]

Nah not a flux diode, should be a flux capacitor.

[ThunderGr]

A diode cannot act as a power converter on its own. The typical configuration for converting AC to DC is Coil Transformer(for stepping down, can be omitted if not needed) -> Diodes(4) -> Capacitor(for normalization).

EDIT: I should had said, it cannot be efficiently used for this purpose on its own.

Edited June 27, 2013 by ThunderGr