Little Mod V5

[Sathra]

I got UFO's to evade properly. Light Scouts can be slightly harder to kill now (I've had a few sorties that ended up with a half-wrecked condor).

[Sathra]

Okay, next build with have properly evading UFO's (the various fighters and light scouts), smoke nerf, pistol/shotgun rebalance (less accurate/more accurate) and probably some other stuff.

Till then, I have a question. How are people finding the AK? Good, bad, meh? Its meant to be a 'baby's first carbine' to give some experience with the weapon type, but it shouldn't completely make the shotgun pointless. So the AK is a general purpose short-range weapon with some good suppression on the side, while the shotgun is for close-range murder, and nothing but.

EDIT: Oh, and should I reduce the numbers of 'Defensive' aliens in ships now that they stay in the ship? Its up to 5 easy kills now with grenade use for scouts and light scouts.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Sathra

[Sathra]

Oh, another interesting thing I could try is making alien weapons part of the construction of human weapons (1 per weapon for plasma, and 2 for MAGs).

So a plasma rifle requires an alien plasma rifle to build. Would cut down on end mission income though, since they wouldn't be autosold so you'd have to sell them personally.

[Sathra]

Wait, terrible idea. You'd end up being able to make pretty much nothing but Magstorms and plasmacasters due to the sheer number of heavy plasmas.

Really wish manufactures.xml allowed (OR) statements now

[Naresh]

AK - I'm not using it. I barely use the shotgun as is, because I prefer longer range engagements with the assault rifle, sniper and LMG. I used the AK for a while and found the range and accuracy not worth the extra few TUs.

Defensive aliens: I've never encountered more than 3 in a craft, and opening the door was a bugger. I tend to have to throw a smoke down, open it up and toss in a few stuns hoping I don't die to reaction fire.

[Sathra]

Yeah...smoke grenade smoke is too good at the moment. Aliens refuse to fire into it for some reason. Trying to test the value needed, but its not going well.

The Carbines (including the AK), shotgun, and the pistol and shield combo are all good for breaching UFO's. My strategy at the moment is 2 people with shotguns/AK/carbines (depends on map if I use the shotgun or AK) and 2 with shields. The rest are general combat with mostly rifles, an MG and a sniper.

They stack up against the door, shields first and crouched. When everyone is in position, open the door and go mad with autofire, grenades, advance forwards for point-blank shots, etc.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Sathra

[Sathra]

Okay, V5X and V5 both updated. Savegame compatible.

Changes:

-Pistol accuracy dropped a bit. They were too accurate.

-Shotgun accuracy increased a bit to be more useable.

-Grenade, rocket and aircraft missile/torp costs increased. Reasonably cheap still, but not throw-away cheap.

-Aircraft missiles/torps can now be sold for more than manufacture cost (but not material cost). Just a bit of a boost during switchover.

-Flares are cheaper to throw (about 32 base I think).

-Smoke grenade smoke nerfed. Alien will now sometimes try to shoot through it.

-UFO's can dodge missiles now.

-Close range accuracy boosted (V5 doesn't have this, as its not really needed).

Might be the last for the 5 series, as the next set will break saves due to adding the class analysis mod.

[Naresh]

Welcoming the change to flares, all in all I find it not worth my time throwing grenades, from twice the distance and the same amount of TUs I can just shoot someone...

UFOs dodging: dangerous area, it's hard enough taking down a fighter when they first appear as they dodge, too much dodging means you have to send in two of your own ships to take out a scout, and adds more micromanagement to the air combat.

Welcome the change to shotgun, will start using it now.

Grenade / rocket costs: Didn't think it was needed, it's gutting enough thinking "every shot is costing me 3-5k" (granted not big money when you're set up, but until then it's heart breaking)

[Amonchakad]

Uhm, I'm kind of confused, where is the link for the 5X version? The only one I see is the original one in the 2nd page of the thread.

Also, a question I've had for a couple of days: would there be any way to mod the stat-increase system? This is possibly the biggest gripe left for me with the game, how I'm supposed to do lap tracks around the map and shoot at walls in order to get a maximum increase in stat, but I suppose it requires actual rewriting of the code, right?

Edited June 19, 2013 by Amonchakad

[Ragnarok]

Can you post some screenshots ?

[Sathra]

All of my pictures in http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/5678-Didn-t-find-thread-for-funny-screenshots are from V5 or V5X.

Stat increase rates are in gameconfig.xml along with descriptions on how they increase. They should increase with normal play though.

Grenades are enormously effective (They can kill early aliens with a single blast), and are very good at destroying most cover.

Fighters and stuff are meant to be dodging. They just failed all the time previously, so now air combat requires some thought. Or in my case, staggering missile launches and spamming the dodge button.

I'll update the first post with the link for V5X.

[Sathra]

Updated both again, and it now includes Max_Caine's and A333's class analysis mod. Doesn't break saves but if you're continuing a game it'll send corpses to Research again for the project.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Sathra

[Sathra]

My standard second base. Mixed intercept/manufacture. I started this one about 2 weeks into the game, finished it halfway through October. It can build and equip a Corsair (2 alenium missiles + Gatling Laser) in about 2.5 days. Not including the Power Core, since I make those well in advance, usually with a Conversion tech for speed.

You can build them like this in vanilla, but you can't get the same number of troops (it currently has 20 with space for 11 more).

[WalrusJones]

Changes:

-Shotgun accuracy increased a bit to be more useable.

I personally increased their suppression radius to four, and made them have a suppression score marginally higher then a single rifle shot.

OHH BOY, are they usable in this state.

What I have found is that in close quarters engagements with living enemies who are vulnerable to suppression, good reliable suppression is FAR more valuable then damage, especially since suppression radius 4 makes it so it suppresses most interior areas in their entirety.

Remember that two or three shotgun snapshots isn't a unrealistic goal for a turn, and suddenly you get the big guy who is a guardian to his men.... Who is also not that lethal.

[Sathra]

Not the place for this.

Anyways, suppression is buggy and suppressed alien get far too many TU's. And at close range they will use it to burst fire and kill the shotgunner. So I went with damage and armour penetration.

[WalrusJones]

Not the place for this.

Anyways, suppression is buggy and suppressed alien get far too many TU's. And at close range they will use it to burst fire and kill the shotgunner. So I went with damage and armour penetration.

That explains the randomness of it.

I was simply suggesting a course of action alternative to bumping up its raw offensive stats.

However.....

I suppose it was immature to reference my own testing here.

I probably have gotten a little too excited to having a working... Something.

[Sathra]

I will look at suppression though, when its working properly. I just don't want to mess with it too much at the moment.

It's alright, I'd just rather keep this thread about the actual mod. And in the sometimes vain hope of balance feedback .

I've been where you are, its exciting working out how stuff works and the possibilities that open. I may have been too sharp, but listening to heavy metal. And I'll stand by that excuse!

[steelwarrior]

Hey Sathra,

got the newest version - thanks a lot!

[WalrusJones]

I will look at suppression though, when its working properly. I just don't want to mess with it too much at the moment.

It's alright, I'd just rather keep this thread about the actual mod. And in the sometimes vain hope of balance feedback .

I've been where you are, its exciting working out how stuff works and the possibilities that open. I may have been too sharp, but listening to heavy metal. And I'll stand by that excuse!

Well. I am a balance nut, hence why I am afraid of changes like "Power level increased."

This almost always ends up with a passing of the stick over what happens to be stronger, as, all too often, two items have identical intended roles with marginally different execution.

Hence, why I always look for a way to add something that adds something different, when making a weak item stronger, so it becomes stronger but different, instead of stronger then it was before, but still not as good as the competitor, or just stronger, and in need of dialing back in an endless tug of war over what was is the best way.

Of course, I am a veteran of more then a dozen balance wars, so I may just be getting ahead of myself due to being used to throwing balance ideas at everything, and debating them long and hard.....

I have a history of I told you so's.

However, if its bugged, its bugged....

Ohh well, my incredible suppression tool is the cause of my mens staggering death toll, who knew?

(Of course, the being wary of overlapping item purposes is almost ironic, given what my mod actually is.)

Edited June 20, 2013 by WalrusJones

[Sathra]

Yeah. Most players don't use shotguns anyways. They've got a very specific role. Extreme close range combat. So they only really come into their own inside UFO's at the moment. The AK currently has a similar role, but it can also work alright as a more general purpose weapon. I think it fills a similar place to your version of the shotgun at the moment, but with the addition that at point-blank range it can cause some major damage with its 4 shot burst fire. Though to be technical, I mostly added it so players could have some experience with the Carbine class of weapon, as the shotgun is ballistic only.

I've used both in the same mission, and they work pretty well together. AK helps to pin the alien down, and can also come up and finish off a badly wounded alien after a shotgun blast.

[PerfectDeath]

How do you get an AK in this mod aside from 'borrowing' from local forces?

Not sure if I am loading the mod right, I get the reduced construction times for MiGs but grenades feel no different, I get unlimited rockets and such, havn't played long enough to test for the powercores yet. =\

EDIT: scratch that, grenades are weak as piss (3 close and direct hits can't kill a noncom selb) and flares cost 42 TUs, no idea why those changes arn't working.

How do you get the mod running? I'm probably not doing it right if I only get some of the changes. @_@

EDIT2: Got it working, pasted the files in.

Edited June 20, 2013 by PerfectDeath

[WalrusJones]

Yeah. Most players don't use shotguns anyways. They've got a very specific role. Extreme close range combat. So they only really come into their own inside UFO's at the moment. The AK currently has a similar role, but it can also work alright as a more general purpose weapon. I think it fills a similar place to your version of the shotgun at the moment, but with the addition that at point-blank range it can cause some major damage with its 4 shot burst fire. Though to be technical, I mostly added it so players could have some experience with the Carbine class of weapon, as the shotgun is ballistic only.

I've used both in the same mission, and they work pretty well together. AK helps to pin the alien down, and can also come up and finish off a badly wounded alien after a shotgun blast.

I have created a provisional sprite of a "Soviet carbine" I have been working on, if you would like a copy of that.

Its a hash of traits belonging of a rare AK47-2 paratrooper varient (was replaced by AKM,) and the AK74, while.

Its a modification of existing resources, and its magazine isn't finished (I have a provisional hue'd version of standard soviet magazines to fill in for it on the current version, but the gun is presentable. It will use the AK74's orange plastic magazines when I am done, however.)

However, it is currently presentable, and its going to be at least two weeks before I get enough artwork done to release the first version of my mod, so, I would be glad to turn it over to you to get some feedback on it.

[Sathra]

Sounds good. I'm not too concerned about realism as much as gameplay, but having the AK image look different could remove some confusion.

[Sathra]

Updated both V5 and V5X with Lightgemini's wonderful Projectile Images mod.

Also fixed a research bug that caused the xenopedia entry for plasma weapons to not show up when researched. Doesn't break saves, but it won't fix itself unless you haven't finished researching plasma weapons. Doesn't seem to effect anything when broken.

Guys, if a research pop-up is blank you really have to tell me!

[WalrusJones]

Sounds good. I'm not too concerned about realism as much as gameplay, but having the AK image look different could remove some confusion.

Alright, I will PM you the current version of the sprite, Its basically a beta sprite, mind you. Features will be added and removed in the future.

Trust me, I am going heavy on the anachronistic gun designs... And am writing little tooltip snippets lampshading this for my own mod.

My goal is complex, tactical gameplay for the entirety of ballistics period of the game, an overly elaborate joke about soviet weapon designs, and a few other things mixed in (Including a short series of joke weapons...)

After that, I will worry about the other periods... But for now, Xenonauts is a hard game, our bambies will find themselves needing to restart alot, thus... Having the most fleshed out early game is probably going to give the most bang for my tick tocs in providing a good mod experience.

Edited June 21, 2013 by WalrusJones