Massive air combat difficulty spike

[fw190a8]

So I played the original X-COM games and was really loving Xenonauts, until the point a few months in when the squadrons of 3 heavy fighters are introduced, as well as the medium craft with heavy fighter escorts and the heavy craft.

At this point, in my opinion, it's impossibly hard to take down any alien craft, and because these are the only types of UFOs encountered, that I found (after 10-12 encounters all comprising the types above), I was unable to actually gather any resources to continue the game.

I'm very concerned that the game hits such an overwhelming difficulty spike where you can go from regularly taking out UFOs and engaging them on the ground, to being unable to take down any UFO whatsoever, seemingly immediately.

Even a lone medium landing ship can take all 4 of the MiG's torpedoes, all of the 2 Condor's missiles, and a bunch of gatling laser fire, and easily take down all of my aircraft. I had not yet been able to research the plasma aircraft guns, so this was the best tech that I had available.

Unfortunately, at this point the game stopped being fun, and became a major frustration, to the point where I no longer want to continue that game, because I feel that I'm in an inescapable situation that the game has put on me without warning. If I had done something wrong, such as sent too few aircraft or equipped them poorly, then I would be more understanding of this failure state, but to my knowledge there's absolutely nothing I could have done better to prepare for this type of combat.

Having read the forums, I understand that a better way is to focus on manufacturing earlier on, and focus on creating a Corsair, but I think that it's currently too easy to ruin an entire game, because one should be using forum posts to enhance one's play style, not to overcome unbeatable situations.

A better situation would be to introduce the harder craft more gradually. A squadron of two heavy fighters, or a heavy and a light, or perhaps the medium ships should be unescorted more frequently, or even throw in a good measure of the smaller UFOs, even later on, so that players who can't or won't research and build quickly can still have a chance. Another option would be to separate out the difficulty sliders for air and ground combat, so that players struggling with one can make this part of the game easier (even midway through) rather than feel utterly beaten and give up.

That's not to take anything away from the game or the developers at all. It's excellent fun and obviously the product of a tremendous amount of hard work; I will no doubt start a fresh game to continue enjoying it, but feel that I shouldn't have needed to.

[StellarRat]

Your supposed to have at least MIG-32 Foxtrots and alenium missiles by the time you start fighting landing ships. It takes about eight alenium torpedeos to bring one down and you'll probably lose a plane too, so you'll need at least two MIG-32's with alenium torpedoes plus a Condor with alenium missiles. You'll also have to make sure you attack an unescorted landing ship. If it has fighter escort you probably will lose the air combat. I usually send my Condor in first to draw fire and my MIGs follow on full afterburner to get in range.

Edited June 4, 2013 by StellarRat

[svidangel]

I think his problem is with the assumption that everyone understands the tech tree and is "supposed" to get alenium missiles before taking on "Medium" ships. I ran into the same problem the first time I hit this point, and have adjusted my research priorities to fix the problem. Point is, I DID have to adjust, and plenty of people playing this the first time are going to get reamed at this same point.

Kinda reminds me of my first game of XCOM EU when I didn't build enough satellites early enough. You just have to know how the game works in order to play it.

[flashman]

The first landing ships should be un-escorted and then the escorts join later.

[Dranak]

Also it's known to the devs that air combat is too punishing and will eventually be adjusted.

[StellarRat]

I think his problem is with the assumption that everyone understands the tech tree and is "supposed" to get alenium missiles before taking on "Medium" ships. I ran into the same problem the first time I hit this point, and have adjusted my research priorities to fix the problem. Point is, I DID have to adjust, and plenty of people playing this the first time are going to get reamed at this same point.

Kinda reminds me of my first game of XCOM EU when I didn't build enough satellites early enough. You just have to know how the game works in order to play it.

I agree, but I always thought the learning to deal with the problems was part of the fun and challenge of the game. Does everyone just wanted to handed an easy solution? Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm also not the type that jumps to the end of a book or movie.

[Gendar]

Landing ship is not such a problem even without alienum torpedo`s, i take them down with two raid`s of 2 mig`s, the secret is lower the speed then launch torpedo then retreat at first combat. and just after landing to the base and refueling to enough of gas send them again.

So, no, landing ships is not such a problem.

Heavy fighters are.

[svidangel]

Games are all about problems. The problem with these problems is when the solutions are "well you were supposed to research your tree like this or you are just screwed now." Something as simple as at the end of the first month having a popup that says "We are seeing heavier ships entering orbit now, might want to work on those aircraft weapons" would be enough so that you aren't a wave or two behind having to research weaponry. Could even only include this in Normal and Easy for newer players getting their feet wet.

I realize they are killable if you want to work at it, you can even kill the Mediums with just one foxtrot and one condor, no laser gatling, no alenium missiles, no reloads, but it takes almost all of your ammo. Also, at least in the steam version it only takes one MIG with 4 torpedoes to take out one Medium. Not sure if that is a the Landing Ship you are referring to, but I think it's the one he is in the first post.

Oh, and I don't suppose we can ever get that name changed.... Condor is still a terrible name for a fighter plane. I mean it's not the Albatross but still...

I suppose if we get magically escaping and regenerating fighters we could change it to the Phoenix!

[StellarRat]

Oh, and I don't suppose we can ever get that name changed.... Condor is still a terrible name for a fighter plane. I mean it's not the Albatross but still...

Yeah, condors are really just big disgusting looking vultures. Why not Cobra or something?

[smoitessier]

Wasn't Cobra the original name for the F-16?

[GizmoGomez]

It is a nickname for the F-16, yes. Or was it Viper?

Or am I just thinking Battlestar Galactica now? haha

EDIT:

It is Viper, yes. And it is also referencing BSG at the same time.

Brilliant. haha

[StellarRat]

Viper.

[alcari]

for escorted landing ships, I usually send in 2 waves. First wave deals with the fighters, and blasts as much of their guns into the landing ship as possible. Second wave comes in with torpedoes to finish the job.

[Sathra]

I just increased aircraft laser and plasma cannon damage by 10 points. Still takes half the ammo from 2 condors and 4 alenium torps to drop a landing ship.

[Commissar Pancakes]

Wasn't Cobra the original name for the F-16?

Nah, I believe it was the Fighting Falcon.

[StellarRat]

It is a nickname for the F-16, yes. Or was it Viper?

Or am I just thinking Battlestar Galactica now? haha

EDIT:

It is Viper, yes. And it is also referencing BSG at the same time.

Brilliant. haha

Excellent work Cmd. Apollo...

[relkin43]

Landing ship is not such a problem even without alienum torpedo`s, i take them down with two raid`s of 2 mig`s, the secret is lower the speed then launch torpedo then retreat at first combat. and just after landing to the base and refueling to enough of gas send them again.

So, no, landing ships is not such a problem.

Heavy fighters are.

Wait. Are you saying I can LOWER the speed of my aircraft 0__0 I knew afterburners but how the heck can I do that?? This changes everything.

[StellarRat]

Wait. Are you saying I can LOWER the speed of my aircraft 0__0 I knew afterburners but how the heck can I do that?? This changes everything.

On left side of the aircraft display there is light green slider you can move up and down. The red zone is afterburner and the rest is normal throttle. You adjust each AC's speed as you wish. You can also adjust their vector by selecting the AC (clicking it's picture) and clicking the map where you want them to head. Targeting can be changed by selecting the AC then clicking the alien ship you want to kill. Finally, you can activate or deactivate each missile on an AC by simply clicking it's picture. Red is "offline", green is "hot". And don't forget to use the space bar to pause combat if you need to adjust something OR you need to click a defensive roll when an alien missile is fired at your AC. Edited June 5, 2013 by StellarRat

[relkin43]

On left side of the aircraft display there is light green slider you can move up and down. The red zone is afterburner and the rest is normal throttle. You adjust each AC's speed as you wish.

Motherofgod.jpg

You sir, have just changed my life and possibly altered the fate of this (fictional) world.

[Grazgul]

If you don't have the upgraded missiles then you'll need to send two teams, one to wipe out the fighters and another to take out the landing craft. I like the difficulty with air combat, shooting down too many stuffs up the game a little bit. You can always wait for them to land and engage them there if your having difficulty.

[StellarRat]

If you don't have the upgraded missiles then you'll need to send two teams, one to wipe out the fighters and another to take out the landing craft. I like the difficulty with air combat, shooting down too many stuffs up the game a little bit. You can always wait for them to land and engage them there if your having difficulty.

Also, damage to alien ships is cumulative, so if you're willing to send in multiple waves and take some losses you can down big ships by hitting them with multiple sorties assuming, of course, you have enough AC on hand. A bunch of cheap level one and two planes can shoot down even cruisers. Unless you can down and recover the larger ships your research will grind to a halt, so sometimes sacrificing AC is the only way to move ahead. Edited June 5, 2013 by StellarRat

[Andeerz]

I can see how people have problems with this... but I have had no problems taking out enemy aircraft at this time of the game. But, as others have pointed out, this is dependent on getting alenium in time. I think that what should happen is just have the medium sized ships unescorted for a while longer than now, and have heavy fighters arrive later. There are a lot of other things I'd like to see changed, but I think this might work for the concerns of this post.

I think after a player encounters two or so medium ships and realizes that their sidewinders and avalanche missiles are crap, they should take the hint and have time to adjust. A month should be enough time, methinks. I dunno.

But as the game is now, as soon as you get alenium air weapons, the air game becomes a chore at times as it is too predictable and easy if you know how to play the minigame.

[Phoenix]

I had Allenium warheads in month one.... wtf? Although I was lucky to get very early fairly intact Large scout (power source requirement)

[Gr3y]

Game should probably hint at what is coming (as already suggested), so you don't get yourself into the "game-over"-corner 20 hours into the game.

[fw190a8]

I think it's worth pointing out that in my example I did already have the alenium aircraft weapons, and I had two Foxtrots, both with 4 alenium torpedoes (not the regular missiles) each, and a Condor too. The medium landing craft from my example sucked up all 8 torpedoes and the Condor's alenium missiles, took loads of hits from the gatling laser, and still didn't go down. Having read the comments above though, perhaps that particular encounter was glitched or something, and ordinarily it should have gone down.

In any case, there's some good suggestions above, and the consensus seems to be leaning towards giving the player more info about what to expect next, in an in-game context.