I'm certain these have been covered...

[Jim McMaster]

First let me start by saying "Thank you." Xcom; & the followup Terror From the Deep are still among my most beloved of games from my early twenties.

Your effort to re-create them, not only for the current generation of gamers, but for those of us who enjoyed Microprose' take on the game, & were underwhelmed by the most recent additions to the title is appreciated more than I can say.

That being said, obviously; everyone has a different opinion as to what made those games kick so much ass, even by todays' Farcry (ha) standards; they hold well to the test of time.

I would like to say that I absolutely love your take on interception of alien aircraft, the air combat mode is much better obviously, & has received some interesting changes.

The hot spot messages add an interesting flavor to the game, excellent idea! I would like them to be investigatable in the future? Is that already planned & I missed it?

The straight-forward encumberance/vs TU points is a welcome change also, making it easy to decide "Who carries John's extra magazines" & the like. Nicely implemented, in fact, the entire squad equipment screen is well done, if a work in progress. (placeholders on descriptions etc.)

A few things I wonder:

The time listed...What time zone is it? I've tried to follow the "dawn" & figure out when it's five am & the sun is rising ...where?...

The cities listed are woefully few, PLEASE, even if they are simply there for flavor, never intending to be terror sites or the like, show more than a few chosen metropolis' on the global map.

I disagree with your inability (stated in the forum sticky) to sell items garnered from missions, & to be honest the overall "Corpses destroyed" & lack of saleable items irks me greatly. There should be a "regular" market for things, & a "Black market" for things, (both weapons & corpses)

An arbitrary "Two alien pistols recovered, you get $45,000," & your assertion that your income should only come from the nations supporting you is a HUGE step away from Xcom, & a massive crimp in the game I believe.

(The overall assertion that governments would be lax in pouring funds into such a project were a threat like this truly materializing is preposterous, we all know funding would be for all intents & purposes "unlimited" the first time (extraterrestrial) aliens landed in a major city & shot it up.)

That always was a bogus part of Xcom to begin with & you think it's a point to take even further?

While overall well done so far, (please take this the right way) several of your 'reports' sound plebian.

They lack 'official' prose, have multiple misspellings, & rely on hyperbole & other misuse of the English language. They SHOULD be scientific or technical reports of a very specific nature. Regarding not only the aliens, but equipment. Even for (dare I say 'especially for' 1979) they are substandard at this point in the game.

Consider allowing interceptors to hopscotch, (Even perhaps landing craft) along a chain of bases with open hangers to refuel for a long flight. ( Say to reach an anomaly listed? check it out & maybe find something....did I mention that's an awesome idea? ) ... in-flight refueling was already well in use by this time & to limit aircraft to a circle around their home-base equaling 50% of their fuel doesn't make sense.

Please, please, don't think I don't like the game; it is an 'advanced' xcom even at it's stage of completion, & with the promise of more work, perhaps even an undersea sequel? You've got not only my $20 & that of my friends'; but you've got a HUGE word of mouth fanbase for the continued evolution of your game.

One other thing; the "reports" would benefit from fleshing out the world map abit as well. recently an attack "Near Anchorage Alaska" left several dead & several more suspected abducted...The actual location of the incident was WELL into Canada; nearly as far away from Anchorage (wherin I live btw) as Boulder is from say, New England. Even if unable to DO anything about them, accurate information helps suspend disbelief.

Thanks for the spectacular work so far you guys, if there is ever anything I can do to help I'd be pleased to lend a hand.

~Jim McMaster

[Sathra]

Location bugs are getting fixed, when people report them.

Extra cities also being added later, now that the game is in the polishing phase. Same with the Xenopedia entries.

There's a mod in the modding subforum that adds timelines to the map. Might help with knowing when a dropship arrives.

The post mission items get automatically sold as A, you can't use them, since that would mess up the game balance (and probab;y other reasons), and B, you'd sell them anyways because of A.

Income is meant to be limited so you don't end up with the OG scenario where you can just churn out laser cannons or something and completely ignore funding as a result. Its meant to be a struggle against heavy odds (and its still being balanced so its a bit off atm).

The limited fuel for aircraft is a design decision so you have to build multiple bases to extend your reach. Hop-scotching is an interesting idea, but probably too late in development to add it (also the bugs it would create).

Oh right, the Events. Each event adds points to the alien's score (which tells the game which kinds of UFO can spawn). You can't really do much with them beyond the fact that a UFO has to be in that spot to create an event and you can vector craft to it to shoot them down.

[GooberCat]

Nice post Jim, I agree with most of what you said but I don't mind the auto selling of corpses and equipment as the overall "feel" still is there.

I noticed that Anchorage "attack"... I don't live that far from you (Whitehorse, YT) and thought that was kinda funny

[Jim McMaster]

The post mission items get automatically sold as A, you can't use them, since that would mess up the game balance (and probab;y other reasons), and B, you'd sell them anyways because of A.

Income is meant to be limited so you don't end up with the OG scenario where you can just churn out laser cannons or something and completely ignore funding as a result. Its meant to be a struggle against heavy odds (and its still being balanced so its a bit off atm).

Okay, I understand the concept of wanting to keep some form of eco-balance in the game. But it's an arbitrary way of doing it.

Selling the spoils of war is a tried & true method of bolstering your forces. It is frowned upon by some (especially if the war is ongoing) & completely expected by others (i.e. me & most of those who would go to war over resources)

To claim it's game balance when there IS very little game balance is poppycock.

The overall of it is this: As I said there would be a black market for such things if anything, perhaps selling them would decrease funding from countries that disagreed with your methods? & not wanting to build a bunch of things for sale & outstrip your financing? Again, contrived game balance that has no place in a game about alien invasion.

Any more than the overall "Oh, you get $30,000" for the month from the USSR to protect against alien invasion.

That's simply not how it would work.

imo to backslide further into that scenario in an effort to make the game difficult is like making up physics rules like "in my world cars drive on walls because you can get around traffic jams faster" ...Might be the case, but it's still unrealistic in an accepted, well-known environment.

& you can argue it as game balance all you want, I still think it's wrong.

~ Just trying to do my part.

Jim McMaster

PCMA-Anchorage AK

[StellarRat]

I'm confused here. The stuff DOES get sold. It shows it right on the mission completion screen. The Xenonauts can't use most of the equipment they capture anyway, so auto selling it right away just save you the trouble. You can also sell stuff like Alienium and alien alloys on the sales screen if you need to raise additional money.

[Jim McMaster]

I hate to say this (But considering its an accepted fact this is a remake, not even a re-envisioning of the game) I will

*inserts whine* "in Xcome before...blah blah blah yada yada"

I'm certain that's what the mods & devs actually HEAR when they read these, but I believe it's a valid point.

Bodies were stored for scientific study, & if your scientists thought they had all the data they could ( or the morgue was getting full) you could always sell them. (Who wants alien bodies? WHO doesn't! Not everyone would have access to "your research" as it were, not to mention the world is always on the hunt for it's next little blue pill, pharmacy companies alone would give millions for such access.

Everything you made in Xcom had a cost; but it ALSO had a sale value. You're worried about people making a thousand laser pistols once they can & removing their need for funding?

Please...If THAT is how they wanted to play the game? Why throw an arbitrary stumbling block that has NO basis in reality into such an interesting scenario? If you MUST keep things somewhat balanced, than have countries who disagree with your methods dislike you & withdraw funding due to your actions.

( Not very plausible, but it could happen)

You begin the game with "Bad" relations with every country anyhow. (Baloney btw) ...Aliens showing up en-masse would change the ENTIRE way we do things on planet earth, trying to press additional methods of controlling finances while the reality of such a situation is being ignored simply wouldn't be supported; & is faulty.

The previous method Xcom had in place was excellent, & one of the things that made it still a playable game when half the world had signed treaties with the aliens & withdrawn funding completely from the xcom project.

Things cost to produce, alien tech you've studied, or human tech we've studied

Things have a set sale value, regardless of what they are, they take up your storage room & force you to consider what's important enough to keep & what should be garage-sale'd to the middle east.

Hitting alien material haulers & coming back to the base with dozens of new alien entertainment holos & alien alloys, foodstuffs, etc. was ALWAYS a major coup in the old games, could change the next few missions for the positive even when things were going poorly...

...to remove that is a bad plan.

*Edit* Awesome Goober Cat! ya ever make it to Anchor-town look me up! If I'm not on shift we'll hit the Bush company & have a beer, yak about Zombie survival plans or the like!

~Bronco Jim

Edited June 4, 2013 by Jim McMaster
Added shout out to another poster

[xcorps]

Good points Jim.

[StellarRat]

You can sell all your Xenonaut built weapons and armor on the sales screen. I think you can even sell the aircraft and tanks you build, but I haven't tried that. As far as I know the only thing you can't sell or isn't automatically sold for you are alien bodies and ruined alien equipment, but that doesn't seem like that big a deal to me.

[asdf64]

I've gotta agree with Jim. It's kind of bizarre how the Xenonauts can end up taking down so many UFO's, yet barely have the funds to support two bases without sacrificing other aspects, like more armor/weapons/etc. Initially it makes sense to be a bit low on funds, but it shouldn't take THAT long to get the project off the ground.

[StellarRat]

I've gotta agree with Jim. It's kind of bizarre how the Xenonauts can end up taking down so many UFO's, yet barely have the funds to support two bases without sacrificing other aspects, like more armor/weapons/etc. Initially it makes sense to be a bit low on funds, but it shouldn't take THAT long to get the project off the ground.

Well, the balancing isn't done yet and I agree with you guys that we don't seem to get enough funding or rewards for alien scrap as we should. Obviously, the difficulty level could be tied to this at some point. Anyway, the game really isn't done yet, so I would just post on the Beta balance Geoscape thread about your concerns.

[Wintermist]

Yeah it's going to take some serious testing to get the balance just right. Easy should be just that, easy, normal is the average gamer's challenge, and hard should have aliens fart fire and rub salt in the wounds while singing this song:

[video=youtube;8QN6p66AtDc]

[Commissar Pancakes]

Great...cue flashbacks to The Oregon Trail and jamming salt into gunshot and bite wounds while telling them to "take it like a man"...even if I "accidentally" shot one of the female passengers...

Though if funding stays like this, Xenonauts would have become an Accountant's wet dream (I should know...I am one...): Effective yet really cheap.

[Gauddlike]

(1) Bodies were stored for scientific study, & if your scientists thought they had all the data they could ( or the morgue was getting full) you could always sell them. (Who wants alien bodies? WHO doesn't! Not everyone would have access to "your research" as it were, not to mention the world is always on the hunt for it's next little blue pill, pharmacy companies alone would give millions for such access.

(2) Everything you made in Xcom had a cost; but it ALSO had a sale value. You're worried about people making a thousand laser pistols once they can & removing their need for funding?

Please...If THAT is how they wanted to play the game? Why throw an arbitrary stumbling block that has NO basis in reality into such an interesting scenario? If you MUST keep things somewhat balanced, than have countries who disagree with your methods dislike you & withdraw funding due to your actions.

( Not very plausible, but it could happen)

(3) You begin the game with "Bad" relations with every country anyhow. (Baloney btw) ...Aliens showing up en-masse would change the ENTIRE way we do things on planet earth, trying to press additional methods of controlling finances while the reality of such a situation is being ignored simply wouldn't be supported; & is faulty.

(4) The previous method Xcom had in place was excellent, & one of the things that made it still a playable game when half the world had signed treaties with the aliens & withdrawn funding completely from the xcom project.

Things cost to produce, alien tech you've studied, or human tech we've studied

Things have a set sale value, regardless of what they are, they take up your storage room & force you to consider what's important enough to keep & what should be garage-sale'd to the middle east.

(5) Hitting alien material haulers & coming back to the base with dozens of new alien entertainment holos & alien alloys, foodstuffs, etc. was ALWAYS a major coup in the old games, could change the next few missions for the positive even when things were going poorly...

...to remove that is a bad plan.

I am not sure you have quite got how the game works in respect to some of these points.

(1) The bodies are not stored any more, you send the first to your research department which unlocks the autopsy data and the rest are sold for cash at the end of the battle.

The main difference here is that you don't have to sell them manually from the stores screen.

(2) Your assumption here is that the devs want the financial aspect to work in the same way as the original which is not the case.

They wanted more focus on the funding nations as your income source so manufacturing for profit was removed.

If you want a justification that makes sense then how about it is in your funding treaty that you will not sell outside of the funding nations and they will get it for cost.

(3) You are a US government official facing an invasion by aliens. A small, poorly funded, organisation comes to you and points out that you have a treaty in place to give them cash taken from your war effort so they can use their single base and 8 soldiers to try and do what your whole country and allies cannot.

I personally can see why you would not be hugely popular to begin with and would have to build up relations as you start to be successful.

I can also see why they would want to get hold of your developed technology and would have written that up in the treaty to begin with, I know I would have.

(4) It really wasn't excellent as it allowed you to bypass one of the main parts of the game. You could effectively ignore the whole planet as long as you kept one country on your side to fend off the game over screen and just build laser cannon to replace them.

You see it as removing player choice, I see it as a more focused decision.

Funding from the nations is far more important if FactoryBase2 isn't churning out enough gear to fund your whole organisation.

Once the ground combat balance pass is complete and the geoscape and funding balance is addressed then this should start to become more apparent.

(5) Still happens as stated in (1), the only difference is that anything that cannot be directly used is either converted into alien alloys and alenium or sold for cash automatically, bypassing the stores screen.

*edit* Should have added to (4) that Xenonauts will allow you to retake funding nations from the aliens so a loss is not permanent as it was in the OG.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Gauddlike

[Sathra]

Un-needed aliens and alien corpses are destroyed (with fire probably), not sold. And extra datacores (though they are the source of the alloys).

[Jim McMaster]

Well, we all have a right to agree or disagree with what we thought was excellent in the previous version of the game.

Your points are valid, & I understand this is someone else's dream not mine. (Though I would point out this is a virtual clone of another game, & I am wondering why these specific things have been changed, the game was challenging as it was to be certain.)

I can also see from your prose & arguments that we have a culturally different point of view on the world & how it functions. No doubt due to different life experiences.

Indeed, that's what modding is for. I'm not unskilled myself in such aspects, (1098hours spent modding Skyrim alone, & it started out an AWESOME game)

& as long as the game is an open-ish platform, I'll do what I can to make (my version) the way I believe it would be.

*Heads to the modding forums to figure out the methods to the madness*

~Jim