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Belmakor

[V8.5] Weapon Balance Mod V1.0

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Disclaimer:

This modification is for the root weapons.xml and weapons_gc.xml files. It is recommended that you back-up both existing files in case making these changes results in any instability.

This is a fan made mod and as such is not endorsed by the developers. It is only intended as a fun balance mod to improve the groundscape experience until the game reaches beta and balancing is carried out

---------

Description:

The following modification effects the Xenonauts weapons only. The major changes in this version are to the rifle and shotgun and have been done to improve the strategic utility and balance of both weapons.

Equipping of extra ammo should now be a strategic decision as a single riflemen no longer has the fire power to take out 7 aliens using a single clip over the course of a battle. Reloading now takes significantly more AP and therefore now needs to be taken into account when planning turns and ammo usage.

The fragmentation of the shotgun now gives the shotgun more utility at short-range and less at moderate range.

The increased burst shot count of the rifle now gives it some utility in close quarters as does the reduced AP of single shots. This reflects the potential high rate of in-direct fire that rifles can and do offer in military engagements.

Try it out and give feedback! =)

--------------

V1.0 Change log
Pistol
Weight reduced from 1.5kg to 0.75kg
Damage reduced from 15 to 10
Reload cost increased to 10 from 3.
Rifle
Single shot has only two settings (down from three).
Damage reduced from 25 to 15
Burst Fire shot count increased to 5 from 3.
AP reduced on single shot settings to 13 and 20 respectively.
Accuracy of single shots set to 100 and 150 respectively.
Accuracy of burst shot reduced to 40.
Reload cost increased to 17 from 3.
Shotgun
Single shot removed.
Burst Fire shot now fires 3 separate shells to represent shell fragments.
Clip size increased to 24, representing 8 shells.
Projectile speed increased to 1600
Accuracy set to 110
AP cost set to 25
Damage per shell reduced to 13 from 40 (to represent shell fragments/increased shot number)
Reload cost set to 17
* Note: reaction fire shots will only consume 1 shell (10 damage) as there is no way of setting reaction fire as burst shots.
Sniper Rifle
Reload cost increased from 3 to 17
Machine Gun
Reload cost increased from 3 to 27
Burst shot count increased to 5 from 3.
AP cost set to 30
Accuracy reduced to 60 from 80.
Clip size increased to 50 (now functions correctly)

---------------

V1.1 Changelog
Pistol
Damage returned to default 15
Burst shot AP increased to 30 (reflect 3 aimed shots in quick succession and which will limit chances of enemy reaction fire)
Burst shot accuracy set to 80 (same as set 1)
Mitigation changed from 5 to 15.

Please try this out and give me some feedback! =)

Instructions for use:

Make a copy of the weapons.xml and weapons_gc.xml files and keep them safe somewhere!

Copy and paste the following into the bold labelled file overwriting the existing information. For example, "Replaces pistol in weapons_gc.xml" means open up weapons_gc.xml (root: Desura/Common/xenonauts/assets) in a text editor, highlight the text referring to pistol and replace with the code underneath the bold heading. DO NOT COPY ACROSS THE BOLD TEXT OR ANY BREAKS "------". Repeat for each weapon. Save the file and close.

-------------- START OF MODIFICATIONS ------------

Replaces pistol in weapons_gc.xml

<Weapon name="weapon.pistol" bulletType="normal" emptySound="Empty Click 1">

<props range="10" hands="1" recoil="0" weight="1" clipSize="12"

reloadAPCost="8" />

<SingleShot sound="Weapon Pistol Single" delay="0.8">

<Set1 ap="10" accuracy="80" />

<Set2 ap="12" accuracy="96" />

</SingleShot>

<BurstFire ap="30" accuracy="80" sound="Weapon Pistol Single" delay="0.6"

shotCount="3" />

<GUIImage name="gui/Pistol.png"/>

<GroundImage name="grounditemimages/pistol.png"/>

<Ammos>

<Ammo name="default" type="kinetic" damage="15" mitigation="15">

<Projectile spectre="projectiles/bullet/bullet" speed="1200"/>

<Impact spectre="particles/bulletplume/bulletplume"/>

</Ammo>

</Ammos>

</Weapon>

Replaces shotgun in weapons_gc.xml

<Weapon name="weapon.shotgun" bulletType="normal" emptySound="Empty Click 1">

<props range="8" hands="2" recoil="0" weight="5" clipSize="24" reloadAPCost="15" />

<SingleShot/>

<BurstFire sound="Weapon Shotgun Single" delay="0.6" ap="25" accuracy="110" shotCount="3"/>

<GUIImage name="gui/Shotgun.png"/>

<GroundImage name="grounditemimages/shotgun.png"/>

<Ammos>

<Ammo name="default" type="kinetic" damage="15" mitigation="20">

<Projectile spectre="projectiles/bullet/bullet" speed="1600"/>

<Impact spectre="particles/bulletplume/bulletplume"/>

</Ammo>

</Ammos>

</Weapon>

Replaces Rifle in weapons_gc.xml

<Weapon name="weapon.rifle" bulletType="normal" emptySound="Empty Click 1">

<props range="18" hands="2" recoil="40" weight="5" clipSize="30" reloadAPCost="15" />

<SingleShot sound="Weapon Assault Rifle Single" delay="0.6">

<Set1 ap="13" accuracy="100" />

<Set2 ap="20" accuracy="150" />

</SingleShot>

<BurstFire ap="35" accuracy="40" sound="Weapon Assault Rifle Burst" delay="0.6" shotCount="5" />

<GUIImage name="gui/AssaultRifle.png"/>

<GroundImage name="grounditemimages/assaultrifle.png"/>

<Ammos>

<Ammo name="default" type="kinetic" damage="15" mitigation="20">

<Projectile spectre="projectiles/bullet/bullet" speed="1200"/>

<Impact spectre="particles/bulletplume/bulletplume"/>

</Ammo>

</Ammos>

</Weapon>

Replaces Sniper in weapons_gc.xml

<Weapon name="weapon.sniper" bulletType="normal" emptySound="Empty Click 1">

<props range="26" hands="2" recoil="0" weight="6.5" clipSize="15" reloadAPCost="15" />

<SingleShot sound="Weapon Sniper Single">

<Set1 ap="28" accuracy="125" />

<Set2 ap="33" accuracy="150" />

<Set3 ap="37" accuracy="175" />

<Set4 ap="43" accuracy="200" />

</SingleShot>

<BurstFire/>

<GUIImage name="gui/PrecisionRifle.png"/>

<GroundImage name="grounditemimages/assaultrifle.png"/>

<Ammos>

<Ammo name="default" type="kinetic" damage="45" mitigation="25">

<Projectile spectre="projectiles/bullet/bullet" speed="1200" delay="2.5"/>

<Impact spectre="particles/bulletplume/bulletplume"/>

</Ammo>

</Ammos>

</Weapon>

Replaces Machinegun in weapons_gc.xml

<Weapon name="weapon.machinegun" bulletType="normal" emptySound="Empty Click 1">

<props range="30" hands="2" recoil="65" weight="12.5" clipSize="50" reloadAPCost="25" />

<SingleShot />

<BurstFire ap="30" accuracy="60" sound="Weapon Machinegun Burst" shotCount="5" delay="0.6" />

<GUIImage name="gui/machinegun.png"/>

<GroundImage name="grounditemimages/machinegun.png"/>

<Ammos>

<Ammo name="default" type="kinetic" damage="40" mitigation="15">

<Projectile spectre="projectiles/bullet/bullet" speed="1200"/>

<Impact spectre="particles/bulletplume/bulletplume"/>

</Ammo>

</Ammos>

</Weapon>

--------------------- END OF MODIFICATIONS TO WEAPONS_GC.XML ----------

Replaces Pistol in weapons.xml

<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapon.pistol</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapons/ballistic/pistol</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapons/ballistic/pistol</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">ballistic</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Boolean">0</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">10</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">15</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">12</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">0.8</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">1</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">3</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">2</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">ammo.ballistic.pistol</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">8</Data></Cell>

</Row>

Replaces Rifle in weapons.xml

<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapon.rifle</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapons/ballistic/assaultrifle</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapons/ballistic/assaultrifle</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">ballistic</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Boolean">1</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">15</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">20</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">30</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">1</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">5</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">5</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">2</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">ammo.ballistic.rifle</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">10</Data></Cell>

</Row>

Replaces Shotgun in weapons.xml

<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapon.shotgun</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapons/ballistic/shotgun</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapons/ballistic/shotgun</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">ballistic</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Boolean">1</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">35</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">80</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">24</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">1.25</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">5</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">5</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">2</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">ammo.ballistic.shotgun</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">15</Data></Cell>

</Row>

Replaces Sniper in weapons.xml

<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapon.sniper</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapons/ballistic/precisionrifle</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapons/ballistic/precisionrifle</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">ballistic</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Boolean">1</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">35</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">260</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">15</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">1.25</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">6.5</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">5</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">2</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">ammo.ballistic.sniper</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">10</Data></Cell>

</Row>

Replaces Machine gun in weapons.xml

<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapon.machinegun</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapons/ballistic/machinegun</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">weapons/ballistic/machinegun</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">ballistic</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Boolean">1</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">50</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">300</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">50</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">0.6</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">12.5</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">5</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">2</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s22"><Data ss:Type="String">ammo.ballistic.machinegun</Data><NamedCell

ss:Name="_FilterDatabase"/></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s23"><Data ss:Type="Number">25</Data></Cell>

</Row>

--------------------- END OF MODIFICATIONS TO WEAPONS.XML ----------

Edited by Belmakor

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Hey,

I haven't actually tried this, due to not being at my home computer. I like the ideas of what you have tried, and good on you and I hope this generates some valuable feedback. I have one suggestion though, well more a worry: I would suggest against making weapons less powerful. While it may work in the current build, I've already had times when I've hit an alien with 5 pistol shots then the next turn he runs around and kills 2 of my men. 5 shots is a lot, so making the pistol weaker... Also reducing the accuracy of the rifle and making that weaker seems like an odd choice to me.

But I digress. My main point is that while this balance may work for the current build, keep in mind that there will be tougher aliens in later builds that these weapons may not be nearly strong enough to deal with once you've nerfed them. These first missions are supposed to be a challenge, but mainly in soldier skill than actual difficulty (in my opinion), so that players can get into the game, get some troop experience, but not really suffer too many losses. Making the weapons ineffective seems like it might make the game a bit harsh!

But as I said, good on you, and I hope others have some constructive feedback for you as well!

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Thanks for the feedback. Actually, although I nerfed the damage per shot of the rifle the action points are nearly half. The accuracy of the rifle remains the same, but without the intermediate set (which I felt was pointless). In essence what you get is approximately the same average damage during a turn that the vanilla offers. The biggest difference now is that you can shoot at more than one target (if you so choose) and also that you will tend to run through ammo alot quicker. This second fact actually makes the battle a little more interesting and makes taking extra ammo worthwhile (as opposed to just an AP drain).

In terms of the pistol, I can sympathize. However, the increased CQB effectiveness of the rifle should now mean that the pistol is only used for Snipers who are in CQB (in which case they are probably in the wrong place anyway).

Give it a try when your home and please feel free to re-iterate or make additional comments! =)

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ah ok, I didn't realise! Good on ya!

One thing though, you might not have read it if you weren't on the old forums, but Chris was quite keen on making the pistol a much more useful weapon this time around. Hence why it has low weight and low cost to fire. This allows a scouting type character with light armour and weapons, but lots of AP to scour the map, while the others follow up. Also take into account that the pistol needs to remain viable as a weapon once the combat shield comes into play.

Otherwise good on ya once again!

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Ahh ok. Tbh I hadn't actually considered that someone might actually want to use the pistol as a primary weapon. I think in the theme of things it might be worth increasing the damage to around 12 (a 20% reduction) and reducing the AP points by 2 also. This would keep the average damage close to vanilla but still make the pistol less hard hitting than a rifle at close range.

Ideally it would be nice if Chris incorporates a weapon reaction modifier that would be weighted heavily towards pistol classes and which would offer a high reaction chance.

I also wanted to make set 4 in the sniper single shot a 55AP, accuracy 250, with 1.5 damage. This would basically represent a head shot. There is a way to trick the game into doing this, i.e. by giving the rifle a burst mode with a shot count of 2, high accuracy and zero recoil, zero delay (in essence two shots hitting the exact same spot for double damage) but i'm hoping for a more elegant way. It would be quite nice if this set was only available to snipers with their accuracy stat above a certain threshold but this is probably asking too much!

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Thanks for the feedback. Actually, although I nerfed the damage per shot of the rifle the action points are nearly half. The accuracy of the rifle remains the same, but without the intermediate set (which I felt was pointless). In essence what you get is approximately the same average damage during a turn that the vanilla offers. The biggest difference now is that you can shoot at more than one target (if you so choose) and also that you will tend to run through ammo alot quicker. This second fact actually makes the battle a little more interesting and makes taking extra ammo worthwhile (as opposed to just an AP drain).

In terms of the pistol, I can sympathize. However, the increased CQB effectiveness of the rifle should now mean that the pistol is only used for Snipers who are in CQB (in which case they are probably in the wrong place anyway).

Give it a try when your home and please feel free to re-iterate or make additional comments! =)

Just to give some feedback, it might be helpful to look at how damage is implemented. The Alien's armor has the effect of dramatically reducing the effectiveness of weapons if you drop the damage too much. Also bear in mind that shooting at an alien more (without killing them) increases the probability that you will be reaction fired against and your soldiers will die. It's a good idea to start fiddling with this stuff though and will be helpful when feedback is requested regarding how weapons should be balanced.

Edited by Quartermaster

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Ah, awesome. I'm really glad to see some people are picking up the balancing challenge and making some suggestions of their own.

I'll give this a try when I get back to my normal PC tomorrow. A few general points:

1) In the current build there's an issue with the random element of the damage formulae which we only discovered a few days back, which should be fixed up in V9. Basically there's a 20 damage random element for each shot, which can give a bonus / penalty to the base damage of the weapon of anything from +20 to -20. This was meant to be +20% to -20% of the weapon's base damage, but it's been implemented as a raw number at the moment. At present this means that all the weapons will have wildly varying damage outputs right now - particularly the pistol.

2) The pistol is meant to have some utility - mostly it's meant to fire fast and do acceptable damage, but have low armour penetration and not be able to burst fire. Their main advantage will be to leave one hand free for other gear (grenades, combat shield, maybe motion detector if we implement that), but they shouldn't be almost useless.

I take your point on reaction fire modifiers. We need to add them in actually. I'll add that to the to-do list.

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Just to give some feedback, it might be helpful to look at how damage is implemented. The Alien's armor has the effect of dramatically reducing the effectiveness of weapons if you drop the damage too much. Also bear in mind that shooting at an alien more (without killing them) increases the probability that you will be reaction fired against and your soldiers will die. It's a good idea to start fiddling with this stuff though and will be helpful when feedback is requested regarding how weapons should be balanced.

Yes there does seem to be some unpredictability in the damage output of weapons. I had a go at equipping my whole squad with just pistols there and found them to be too weak (taking about 10-12 shots to kill a guard). After fiddling round with the "mitigation" and damage I have found a balance that takes out a guard in 6 shots. Does that seem reasonable?

Ideally I would like to take out the pistol burst fire but as you say reaction fire can become a problem. I will leave it in to reflect 3 shots in quick succession (with same AP cost and accuracy as set 1) and which will limit reaction fire.

I have also just noticed that "delay" only refers to the delay given to allow the animations to catch up with the projectiles so I have adjusted them.

There appears no way of adjusting the time between burst shots yet...

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I think an average of 5 shots to kill the weakest alien with the weakest gun should be a maximum. Can you imagine trying to kill some of the tougher aliens with a weapon that takes more than 5 shots to kill the weakest alien? I'd prefer an average of 4, but 5 will do I think

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I think an average of 5 shots to kill the weakest alien with the weakest gun should be a maximum. Can you imagine trying to kill some of the tougher aliens with a weapon that takes more than 5 shots to kill the weakest alien? I'd prefer an average of 4, but 5 will do I think

Interesting comments. I think it is natural there will be two camps when it comes to weapon damage. I think vanilla is quite true to its xcom roots in terms of the damage of starting weaponry. However, my rationale is that xcom was set in the future where weapons were free to have any clip size and damage. Xenonauts on the other hand is in the cold war, where technology is only just making its way into military hardware. Imho not only is weak human tech realistic but also adds the utility of extra ammo to weapons that traditionally have high ammo counts. If you can drop a guard, say, in two shots then its unlikely you will ever need to reload a rifle or machine gun, or even a sniper during a mission in vanilla.

I agree this leads to the significant and damaging issue of reaction fire which can be punishing at times. However, this may become less of an issue with the inclusion of AI LOS that is not infinite and 360 degrees.

Secondly, it is my belief that in the highly militarised cold war soldiers should be relatively disposable (i.e. dirt cheap). Ideally i think the cost of a soldier should be dropped to 10k. Of course, you could choose instead to equip your men with better armour and alien tech if you wanted to play the concientious power. Having this reduced cost would offer up two styles of play.

All in all though i will certainly look to keep balancing based on other players opinions. Out of interest, how have you found the rifle generally? Less or more useful? Also, is it just me or is the machine gun waaaay to accurate with its 5 shots even when it has a 20pc chance to hit?

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the problem with that argument is that this game is designed to help you get attached to your soldiers, and for you to want them to survive, get experience, and become bad arse. If you go along your theory, then what's the point of the experience that soldiers gain? May as well chuck that whole aspect of the game out, and have a cannon fodder style recruitment system...

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I take your point that it does offer up that style of play true. But you can still play safely and try and keep you troops alive as long as possible, you can choose to equip them with better weapons and armour (as is the Xcom way). You are still punished for losing troops due to the slow rate of experience gain and emotional attachment. If anything you should be forced to move away from starting weaponry quickly anyway as how can it possibly be as effective as a plasma cannon used by a space-faring race.

Looking at it from another view point. Should a scientist be worth much more than a soldier in this environment? At the moment they are 20k and 25k respectively which means you either drop the soldier or increase the scientist (but then you are getting into very expensive territory when you are hiring 10 of them!)

Tbh I agree that 5-6 shots to take out a low level guard is on the verge of dangerous. But the alternative is either making the accuracy of each weapon reduced so that you fire 3 and hit once for example. Or you forget about the strategic utility of ammo as you will never (unless you actively hunt down all the aliens with one soldier) run out of the ammo that was originally in the weapon - which loses some of the flavor of the game.

In Xcom your weapons held (I think) about 12 rounds so it was quite possible you would need to reload once or twice per soldier. Here we have weapons with 30 or 50 rounds. It is just not possible to have quite the same strategic game without making the weapons weaker or reducing their accuracy.

I would hope that once the reaction fire issue is resolved, having to hit a target 5 or 6 times (3 times with a rifle mind!) that this balance won't seem quite so punishing and will actually improve your enjoyment of the game. =)

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oh god..... all modders just want to make the game more difficult, most mods add nothing to the games and make it a pain to play.

if somebody wants to make a mod please make aliens more clever, dont make pistols even more useless than they normally are, or sniper rifles a pain to reload...why? they have a 5-6 mag clip it should take even less time to reload than a rifle, and similar to a pistol

maybe make line of vision same as aliens....... create infrared googles along with the helmet.... add mortars perhaps?, make rocket launchers realistic? not like old xcom games when aliens could take 2-3 rockets to their face and live?...... i dont know, something interesting , dont nerf the game, i played x-com with rifles and it was a joke already.... sorry but this is not the way.

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oh god..... all modders just want to make the game more difficult, most mods add nothing to the games and make it a pain to play.

if somebody wants to make a mod please make aliens more clever, dont make pistols even more useless than they normally are, or sniper rifles a pain to reload...why? they have a 5-6 mag clip it should take even less time to reload than a rifle, and similar to a pistol

maybe make line of vision same as aliens....... create infrared googles along with the helmet.... add mortars perhaps?, make rocket launchers realistic? not like old xcom games when aliens could take 2-3 rockets to their face and live?...... i dont know, something interesting , dont nerf the game, i played x-com with rifles and it was a joke already.... sorry but this is not the way.

Unfortunately the only thing that can be modded at the moment is weapons, vehicles, maps and items! Anything else is in the developers hands.

Out of curiosity, did you even try the modification? If you did you would notice that none of the weapons have been "nerfed" and indeed all offer up the same average damage as vanilla but just do so over more shots.

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no i havent tried any builds, im just waiting to be amazed ;) , but i have played all the x-com games and freeware for years....... and other games, and there is this obssesion with harder is better, but more shots less damage and less accuracy doesnt make much sense

i was playing the other day a weapons mod for fallout 3, and it was like heavy machine guns taking 100 shots to kill a mutant, and that was a 12000 nuka credits gun, i felt like smacking the modder silly with his own butrifle to see if it takes 100 hits to take him down.....lol

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Oh I can sympathize with that. I'm not trying to make the game harder. If anything I feel that these modifications keep the difficulty around the same as weapons retain vanilla accuracy, have lower damage per shot but lower AP per shot (to balance out). The only thing I am aiming for in this version is to increase the usefulness of the rifle as a weapon, to make the shotgun have spread and to give you a reason to reload! =)

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why not just keep the weapon damage up, but lower the clip size?

Unfortunately I think we are restricted as we are limited to tech in use during the cold war. Of course, such issues need not apply to later stage tech.

AD, is your concern more related to the negatives of reaction fire or just the actual frustration in having to make 5-6 shots to kill? I believe the reaction fire issue can be addressed in other ways...

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No no I think what you've done is fine, but you've stated that you want more shots necessary to kill because you want people to have to reload, which requires them to go through their ammo. So why not lower the clip size. The starting weapons aren't actually based on any specific weapon, more general norms. So feel free to lower the ammo count if that's what you think will better balance it.

And that way you'll get around the increased reaction fire chance...

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No no I think what you've done is fine, but you've stated that you want more shots necessary to kill because you want people to have to reload, which requires them to go through their ammo. So why not lower the clip size. The starting weapons aren't actually based on any specific weapon, more general norms. So feel free to lower the ammo count if that's what you think will better balance it.

And that way you'll get around the increased reaction fire chance...

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Is the increased reaction chance a problem or is he trying to work with its final structure in mind? tbh id probably want the reduced ap cost of fireing a weapon that comes with Belmakors solution.

Or are you/we expecting the alien armor to scale perfectly with the weapon upgrades so that it will allways require the same ammount of shot for the particular type of weapon regardless how far up the tech tree you are?

What do we expect about the scaleing with conversion of alien weaponry?

PS. tbh reaction fire is fun imo, although lastest games ive played aliens has reacted alot more then player chars (yes the chars has enough AP left) makeing reaction fire less fun. DS.

Edited by Gorlom

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if you get a standard alien and doesnt die/(panics/faints/etc) with 2-3 shots of an assault rifle something is wrong.

it bugs me aliens have more vision that humans... why? it is not THEIR PLANET.!!!!, on a sunny day it would be realistic to be able to see most of the battlefield.

i just hope it doent happen like the old x-com games , you drop at night and the first 3 soldiers dead before they get to the ground and see anything..........., the reason i didnt do any night missions in original x-com

and the original tanks were a joke..... 1-2 shots and dead, even the advanced vehicles melted with 1-2 plasma rifle shots.......IT IS A TANK!!!!!!!!!!, not a bicycle

Edited by cyllan

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make the aliens more intelligent, like hiding in cover or flanking, make war tactics work, dont make the weapons gay

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Not sure how it will be at beta but at the moment almost all the different alien races have approximately the same amount of health (all around 40-60) but with varying degrees of armour. It seems to me that unless the starting weaponry is suitably mediocre there will be little reason to upgrade to expensive (both time and money) laser and plasma tech.

Don't forget that half the fun (at least for me) from the first game was getting your ass kicked for the first few months until you are able to reverse engineer the alien tech and use it against them. In this period you are bound to lose a good proportion of your squad. They are not super human after all. All it takes is for you to keep one or two alive.

Either you keep the starting weapons weak and progress tech to cope with tougher aliens, or the weapons start tough, get tougher and the aliens stay the same. That last option sounds unappealing to me and I would hope many others.

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