7.23.1 Laser vs Accerated

[KOKON]

 

 

Can you see the difference? Same accuracy, range, etc. Is it intended?

[Shotcrete]

Armor penetration/destruction, ammo, and aim bonus are different.

[KOKON]

I dont see any difference for the aim.

 

Armor and ammo difference i can see. Nothing else. Looks very bad to me to be honest

[BCool]

I also noticed this, and yes lasers are arguably initially worse that the accelerated weapons. As it stands the description is not consistent with the displayed accuracy numbers. In practice initial lasers weapons are better at destroying terrain and walls and armor which does help in some maps and for some opponents. (For example you can use laser shotguns to reliably destroy interior ufo walls) Later you can research a damage upgrade for laser weapons, which makes them obviously better but still the ammo and the energy resistance of some aliens makes them not always better even then. 

[KOKON]

Like from the game lore perspective. This is so sad. This actually speaks about the fact that these weapons are so much 1:1 is just a fact that devs did not finish the game. 

[Chris]

11 hours ago, KOKON said:

Like from the game lore perspective. This is so sad. This actually speaks about the fact that these weapons are so much 1:1 is just a fact that devs did not finish the game. 

There's lots of differences between them. Did you not read the Xenopedia article that came with the Laser weapons?

Lasers have an aim bonus, but it's dependent on the accuracy of the soldier (it's greater for soliders with lower Accuracy) so we can't show it in the tooltip because it's not a fixed amount. The guns also behave quite differently because Lasers have a tiny ammo capacity, but can be upgraded to have recharging ammo clips. They also have the same base damage but get an upgrade that increases it. Lasers also have much better armour destruction.

Basically Accelerated Weapons are a cheap upgrade that is initially just as good as Lasers. But Lasers get stronger with more research so they're a better long-term investment, despite initially being more expensive.

[KOKON]

 

I've played every ufo title since original game.

I dont understand what damage multiplier 135%...
And i cant deduce from this screenshot or the screenshot above that this rifle has some special accuracy mechanics.
Like in many games there can be a special bonus icon. You hover and read smth.
Chris, with all respect. Maybe you remember me on this forum since Xenonauts 1 was in development.

Mechanics that you mentioned is cool. Like a weapon for rookies right? Makes sence. But it is a hidden mechanics.

[KOKON]

Recoil... I dont have stomach for this. Wanted to continue the campaign. But honestly i cant

[Chris]

3 hours ago, KOKON said:

 

I've played every ufo title since original game.

I dont understand what damage multiplier 135%...
And i cant deduce from this screenshot or the screenshot above that this rifle has some special accuracy mechanics.
Like in many games there can be a special bonus icon. You hover and read smth.
Chris, with all respect. Maybe you remember me on this forum since Xenonauts 1 was in development.

Mechanics that you mentioned is cool. Like a weapon for rookies right? Makes sence. But it is a hidden mechanics.

Hover your mouse over the Easy Aiming and Low Recoil text in the top right of the Laser Weapons Xenopedia entry and it explains exactly what they do. The Accuracy bonus also shows in the game when you try and use the weapon. Laser weapons have half the recoil of other types of weapon, which it says in the Xenopedia and is actually also shown in the tooltips. 

Yes, I do remember you as being a long time forum member - which is why I'm surprised that you seem to have immediately jumped to the conclusion that the development team couldn't be bothered to finish the game, rather than trusting us. But if you want to end your campaign then that's your choice.

Anyway I think this conversation has highlighted to me that we need to flag the information about the aim bonus in multiple places - we can add it to the weapon tooltip description text, and probably in the main body of the research text too. You're probably not the only person who hasn't realised that they can hover over the info in the top right.

[odizzido]

I never knew the lasers had a bonus to accuracy and half recoil(though honestly from a realism point I do agree it should be effectively zero recoil.....but from a game balance point I understand why you might not). I wonder how it would feel to have lasers fire fewer rounds with zero recoil?....so a rifle shoots twice instead of three times...the "machinegun" shoots like 5 times or something. I don't know how recoil works exactly so I don't know what the right number is.

 

Anyways I really like lasers. The ability to destroy walls/objects is a huge advantage that I use all the time. I only ever used laser snipers though, as building more than a few weapons early on is too expensive. Shotguns seem like they would be great too though.

 

edit-------

oh maybe people don't realise they can mouse over the text at the top right of the xenopedia page despite it being the bright white is because it has no contrast.

Like if it were Easy Aiming Bonus, with the Easy Aiming being bright white and the bonus being the darker grey text it would be much more obvious. But it would require people to go into the xenopedia to see it. If it were under the standard tooltip you see when mousing over in the soldier or manufacture screens I think I would have known about laser bonuses pretty quickly instead of learning about it from this post. I think it would make sense to have it in the tooltip, since it is a gameplay altering thing.

Edited May 28 by odizzido

[Oldsmobile]

Good point, odizzido.  Me neither!
Maybe it would be good to background-highlight those words, rather than just brightening the letters.  And/or underline the word

 

OP raised a good point, but saddled it with weird hostility.

Edited May 29 by Oldsmobile

[KOKON]

I would not implement a handheld laser machinegun at all. It is a bit too straightforward that gunpowder, accelerated and laser have 1:1 the same weapon classes .Maybe it could be a heavy singleshot laser cannon 2x more powerful than sniper rifle but overheats and inflames the smoke as it overheats the air. And has even lower ammo capacity and is even heavier weight than a normal heavy weapon. Heat radiators + battery etc.

Instad of recoil there could be overheat damage to lenses maybe. Like if you shoot 3 times per 2 turns there is a 50% chance that weapon will permanently loose accuracy -5. (2 shots per 2 turns for sniper rifle as sniper laser is more powerful). After combat you will have to refubrish this weapon if you want to fix it at 1/4 price.

Like after it is manufactured the weapon is nice but it is problematic to use it to the maximum potential without any afterthought