Yet another Laser vs Accel discussion.

[LynneJJW]

Alot, iv been onboard with the game since it was able to be played. 

It is now v1.0 and i have waited.

And... Laser Weapons still have no reason to exist over Acceleration weapons... other than environment destruction, which have many other alt methods.

They do the same damage. there is no actual accuracy buff. there is no penetration. 

Breaking it down simply. 
Laser < > Accel
---Dam
Pistol: 33 - 33 Damage
Rifle: 40 - 40 Damage
Shotgun: 3x33 - 3x33
Precision rifle: 46 - 46
LMG: 40 - 40.
---Pen
Pistol: 0 - 5 Penetration
Rifle: 0 - 5 Pen
Shotgun: 0 - 3
Precision rifle: 10 - 12
LMG: 0 - 5
---Range
Pistol: 12 - 12 tiles
Rifle: 20 - 20
Shotgun: 10 - 10
Precision Rifle: 30 - 30
LMG: 20 - 20
---Hit bonus (gonna speed this up)
Pistol: 2.25% (both)
Rifle: 1.5% (both)
Shotty: 6.25% (Both)
Sniper: 0% (both)
LMG: 1.5% (both)
---Ammo Cap
Pistol: 5 - 15
Rifle: 5 - 20
Shotgun: 3 - 8
Sniper: 3 - 5
LMG: 30 - 50
---Fire modes TU usage, all the same.

So... in general. iv liked the idea of the laser weapons and their look in the game for a long time. but never liked that they wernt as useful as the Acceleration weapon line. 

If they actually DID get accuracy buffs. ya, thatd be amazing. and thats really all it does need. Because the later game inf ammo upgrade would make these weapons alot more relevant when needing to carry the Tactical Module, plates, automed, the psy thing. 

But then again, i rarely even need to reload weapons i do have. 

Iv been in and out of threads here, on steam, and other forums about the Laser vs Accel lines. but they both have people going back and forth. From my understanding, Lasers and Accel are basically the same area of 'tech tree' just side by side. Do you want to do more Environmental damage? or do more direct damage to the enemy? Given lasers do have a better endgame point of ammo not being an issue, the effectiveness on enemy units stays the same. And then by the time you get to that level of R&D for the inf ammo for laser weapons, you will be close to or already have unlocked Gauss weapons. Making the combat effectiveness of both Accel and Lasers pointless. (other than fall back due to resource shortages)

 

Am i missing anything? 

[fusion-waffle]

25 minutes ago, LynneJJW said:

If they actually DID get accuracy buffs

They do grant a laser aim bonus for low ACC soldiers, but it is small (e.g. +2 or +4 acc for soldiers with moderate ACC, presumably it is bigger for soldiers with terrible ACC, but i don't hire those ones), and it is not shown in any of the weapon tooltips.  but, if you enter a ground combat mission and preview a shot with a laser weapon, you should see a "laser aim bonus" line in the hit chance explanation.

Edited April 8 by fusion-waffle

[Sunnybuns]

It's complete crap and 100% disappointing for an upgrade tier. 5 lousy shots for the rifle?? Hell XCOM UFO Defense made it unlimited at least! The only upside is some small aim boost, and considering how your soldiers cant shoot for shit, its not worth it. I stick with acceleration and go into the next tree on my new campaign. I thought they would change the direction of it over the past couple years but considering how its still garbage, it's still a pass over tech.

[Vojevoda]

Wait till you reach Androns. 

I made a mistake on this play-trough on not researching Lasers for too long. Focused on Air superiority. And Accelerated weapons worked perfectly fine. Right till the moment Androns showed up. I had to do two missions back to back against them on Commander. And what a mistake that was. Kinetic weapons barely scratch these bastards. Lost a lot of good men. Most of my roster is in infirmary. Finished mission yesterday completely exhausted. Seems like I`m having a little breathing room after those two mission to start producing lasers. Hoping no Terror site pops up for a little longer. 

Not to mention, there are later damage upgrades for lasers making them even more valuable. And upgrad for passive recharge. On previous play-trough researched them too late. That was also a mistake. 

[fusion-waffle]

I like the laser pistols. Pistols take fewer resources to produce than the other guns.  Quite a few of the armoured enemies like to move to close range - androns cannot be suppressed and will stomp close & servitor seem to love trying to do point blank bursts.   When soldiers end up close to armoured enemies, the pistols have high hit chances and can be fired multiple times per turn due to the low TU cost, with each hit destroying armour. After the investment in pistols I usually get 2-3 laser machine guns, which I use as medium range anti-armour. Then laser shotguns as time & resources allow.   There's usually a lot of free accelerated rifles to loot from cleaners, so upgrading them to laser is less attractive, given the cost.

Another way to manage could be with demo packs to destroy armour before firing.  If the assaults have been training their strength they can often carry a demo pack or two in addition to their traditional assortment of flashbangs and smoke grenades & maybe some of the stronger shield bearers & assorted riflefolk can carry one as well.

Edited April 10 by fusion-waffle

[Vojevoda]

1 hour ago, fusion-waffle said:

I like the laser pistols. Pistols take fewer resources to produce than the other guns.  Quite a few of the armoured enemies like to move to close range - androns cannot be suppressed and will stomp close & servitor seem to love trying to do point blank bursts.   When soldiers end up close to armoured enemies, the pistols have high hit chances and can be fired multiple times per turn due to the low TU cost, with each hit destroying armour. After the investment in pistols I usually get 2-3 laser machine guns, which I use as medium range anti-armour. Then laser shotguns as time & resources allow.   There's usually a lot of free accelerated rifles to loot from cleaners, so upgrading them to laser is less attractive, given the cost.

Another way to manage could be with demo packs to destroy armour before firing.  If the assaults have been training their strength they can often carry a demo pack or two in addition to their traditional assortment of flashbangs and smoke grenades & maybe some of the stronger shield bearers & assorted riflefolk can carry one as well.

I opened on Androns with demo packs at every opportunity. But it felt like it made no impact. Amount of shots required to down one Andron with Acc weapons seemed to be the same. Hard to tell for sure, since there is no damage numbers on Commander. I think it is all about kinetic resistance Androns have. 

Played one mission with lasers. No Androns this time. Went through Cyberdrones like hot knife through butter though.