Viqer Fell Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Hi There, I found out about Xenonauts from Steam where I play a lot of the old X-Com games and it was just after the Paypal Fiasco. Am looking forward to being able to pre-order so I can a) help fund getting the game complete but b) more importantly actually playing the game. One thing I wondered was what do the developers and people who have access already think the key differences are between this game and the X-Com style, free game (UFO Alien Invasion). I guess this is a nice opportunity to "sell" the game to me albeit chances are as soon as pre-order comes back I'll be ponying up some cash but let's assume for a second I'm not ;p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I like the way the Paypal Fiasco has now become a capitalised proper noun. The main advantage UFO AI has over us is that they're free, and you have to pay for us. Oh, and they've got a 3D camera in the battlefield. The main advantage we have is that we're a commercial team, so the overall product will be several degrees more polished than what they can produce. In raw feature terms, we've got better visuals, destructible terrain, a better setting and a better air combat model. There are lots of other small ones but I don't know enough about UFO:AI to comment on them all. I imagine we'll be finished first too. Essentially, we'll just be a better game. I'm not knocking them, but we've got more resources behind us and they're one of the few projects on this Earth that actually have a more outdated engine powering them than we do! EDIT - I probably should clarify that I have a lot of respect for the developers, because I know how hard it is to develop a game like this. Producing a game of this size without using paid contractors is a very tough ask and they'll do well to even come close... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) I like the way the Paypal Fiasco has now become a capitalised proper noun. Piffle! "Screw up" is just another term for "historic event"! I'm not knocking them, but we've got more resources behind us and they're one of the few projects on this Earth that actually have a more outdated engine powering them than we do! Aww, tell us how you really feel. =P As much as I respect the modding/indie scene (there's quite some overlap), when it comes to churning out large amount of content, be it general graphics, models, or sounds, they aren't playing in the same league as commercial projects. Producing quality content is a day job and the artists that can make it look good... cost money. Edited October 26, 2011 by Gazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki45 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 One thing that really turned me off on UFO: AI was the fact that you can not save the game during a mission and there appears to be no desire to have that option. For me as someone who does not have a lot of time to sit down and play a game before other duties come up I do find this rather irritating particularly because it was stated that people don't want the temptation to reload after a mission starts going bad. I find that to be rather silly. I mean seriously why take away someone else's choice because you can't control your own temptations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 That was the reasoning behind allowing mid-mission saves for Xenonauts (besides Iron Mode). I just don't like the current look of UFO AI. Its physically unpleasant. Eye strain and all. That and the off-map facilities and various slip-shod mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leto Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Quite funny, when I was reading the topic title I thought it was about the AI (artificial intelligence)of Xenonauts. Shows how much I care about all UFO games they released out after Terror from the Deep I guess ... heck I'll be playing TFTD again until Xenonauts is available Edited October 27, 2011 by Leto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Lol, I did too. Was kind of disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 AI should get a significant visual upgrade in 2.4 but it's been very long in the making. Iirc the game has a lot of features and potential but the process is slow. I don't remember much of it but I liked how base defenses could target UFOs on the geoscape for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spyder Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) As much as I respect the modding/indie scene (there's quite some overlap), when it comes to churning out large amount of content, be it general graphics, models, or sounds, they aren't playing in the same league as commercial projects. Producing quality content is a day job and the artists that can make it look good... cost money. Comercial ventures also come with a lot of overhead, stifled creativity and, well, commercialization. Quite a lot of what should otherwise have been good games have been totally killed by corporate masters who have their own ideas about what is "Good" and what is not, which is quite often at variance with the artistic license that you can more often see in indie productions. And while I agree that "Good Talent" often finds a way to get paid for it, so sometimes does bad talent. And quite often the "Best" talent isn't in it for the money anyway. In the end, it is best to judge a product not by the corporation/comercialization/talent behind it, but by the product itself. Edited October 28, 2011 by the_spyder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNoyce Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I definitely agree. Projects have to be judged on their own merit. UFO:AI has come a long way since it started, and continues to improve, albeit somewhat slowly. However, most open-source projects tend to work that way in my experience. I certainly have been disappointed after spending $$ on a AAA title, so my general feeling is that although more $$ can potentially be a good thing, it does not guarantee that the end result will be exceptional. I am just very happy there are folks out there that enjoy the turn-based sci-fi strategy genre, and are willing to put their talents to work for my enjoyment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Yup. The only thing I'd mention is that people have to eat, and there's a lot of very talented people who are very keen to work on indie projects and will do so with substantially reduced rates - but there's a minimum below which a lot of them just literally can't afford to go. If UFO:AI turns out to be a product of equivalent quality to Xenonauts, it will be a much larger achievement because of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Oh yeah, I agree with that. I'd actually probably be playing it if it wasn't for the eye-strain. It...doesn't put you in a good mood to look for the good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki45 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I actually do like UFO: AI and I will play it once it is more complete. However, it does not generate the excitement for me that Xenonauts is because of how much progress you are making on Xenonauts. There are a few issues I have with UFO: AI which keeps me from calling it a great game. One being no saving during missions. I didn't really like the back story for the most part. The graphics are a little off putting as well and the lack of destructible terrain is a big negative too. With that said though I did like some of the weapons they had and I think the soldier statistics were a little more intuitive. I see no reason why I can't play both games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I forgot about that. There is a LOT of writing done. Something like a page and a half for the Assault rifle. Its not bad at first, but after a while its like looking at a thread Gazz is interested in. You know there's something good or at least interesting there...but having to read it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Its not bad at first, but after a while its like looking at a thread Gazz is interested in.You know there's something good or at least interesting there...but having to read it... And then there are those, who are drawn to such threads like flies to the shiny spider web. =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 And then they get confused because they suggest something, but it turns out Gazz suggested it 2 pages, 12 posts and 4000 words before, just no one got that far through reading it... =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) But then Gazz disagrees with them nevertheless and compiles documentation detailing an even better solution. Edited October 29, 2011 by Jean-Luc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Or at least a different solution. Which no-one reads also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolshred Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Same here, honestly I'm not sure i've even heard of this UFO:AI .. am I living in a closet So many X-Comesque games about nowadays that I'm losing track.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamoecw Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 all xcom like games that are playable: http://www.xforce-online.de/ - free - in progress http://ufo.ufo-extraterrestrials.com/ - $9.99 - done, sequel in progress http://www.1cpublishing.eu/game/ufo-trilogy/overview - $19.99 - done http://ufoai.org/wiki/index.php/News - free - in progress http://www.xenonauts.com/xenonauts-overview - $19.99 - in progress xforce: xforce is a german project. originally was going to be an indie game, though early in development it got canned (not sure on the specifics) and the source was released to the public. the person who now works was the one who got it to a playable state. there have been translations in the past, and the flavor text is mostly still translated, as well as the gui and such. not bad, though every once and a while there is german, though there is more english in it than xenonaughts. poor graphics, though 3-D. innovations: funding nations have early technology, which if you want to buy have to keep them happy. dynamic market system, which prevents flooding the market with one new piece of technology and still retaining profit margins. able to add equipment items to aircraft like xcom apocalypse, sensors and other stuff similar to xcom apocalypse as well. ufo: extraterrestials: don't know haven't played it ufo: trilogy: a group of developers bought the canceled project: The Dreamland Chronicles: Freedom Ridge, which was being made by the same people who made the first three xcom games, and this was going to be the fourth. they had to change pretty much everything due to legal stuff (including rewriting the core engine). after the first they made a second, at the end they had a falling out with their publisher, resulting in game breaking bugs being unpatced. the team reformed under a new company and developed a third game, which also had several game breaking bugs. unable to get funding to properly fix bugs in the last two games they went unfixed, until a fan patched the games fixing several game breaking bugs. innovations - aftermath: more believable reason as to why there is very limited support for the war. gameplay changed so that you can't acquire new troops, basic firearms, etc. simplified air combat. well done real time battlescape. 3-D engine that allows panning and rotating. alternate objectives in battlescape, like rescue a downed pilot, retrieve object, destroy object. gain territory in order to help fund/build/research. streamlined initial base placement. multiple endings. select stats to level up. innovation - aftershock: no air combat. territory gives actual resources to use. minor diplomacy. addons to weapons. non destructible terrain. select stats to level up. well done real time battlescape. 3-D engine that allows panning and rotating. alternate objectives in battlescape, like rescue a downed pilot, retrieve object, destroy object, capture enemy. not really able to get new troops. innovations - afterlight: no air combat. more robust territory management. more robust diplomacy. more robust customization of weapons and armor. robot troopers. select stats to level up. non destructible terrain. well done real time battlescape. 3-D engine that allows panning and rotating. alternate objectives in battlescape, like rescue a downed pilot, retrieve object, destroy object, capture enemy. not really able to get new troops. ufo: alien invasion: using a very robust FPS engine, this game has stripped out all of the original games content, and thus can allow it to be downloaded for free and not a mod. they got a budding scifi writer to write for them to pad his resume and give him experience writing for video games. it was made across many years, and still is worked on today, currently at version 2.4. last i played a game it was version 1.2 if i remember correctly. innovations: rescue missions for downed dropships (haven't done). considerable modder support. auto resolve ground missions. able to pan and rotate camera camera to get a better view. able to look through your soldiers eyes and give orders and such while in that camera mode. nice globe for geoscape with realistic day night cycles that change due to pitch of earth changing throughout the seasons. able to bounce grenades off walls to get around corners and such. probably much more as i haven't played in a long while. unless it has been added since i last played it, non destructible terrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkeyfumbler Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Don't forget UFO: The Two Sides. A multiplayer update/re-write of the original that was almost complete when they stopped work on it. The single player part was finished though and is fairly playable. Certainly great if you still like the original but can't cope with the early 90's graphics and resolutions. http://ufotts.ninex.info/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamoecw Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 there is also open xcom which is an open source project which takes the original game and is redoing the engines so that it plays well on modern machines, and is easily moddable, while changing pretty much nothing about the game, including the graphics and crappy interface. there are a number of mods out there for the original which fix bugs and improve gameplay, so if you want to play the original with some tweaks here and there, go check out: http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Game_Editors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkeyfumbler Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I don't really understand Open Xcom. Why go to all that trouble but keep the crappy interface? I can see why the graphics might need to stay the same - lots of effort involved updating them - but surely the interface could be quite easily improved on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Donkeyfumbler I think it has to do with copyright issues. a straight port still requireing you to own the old version isn't really messing around with the IP. It's more of an unofficial patch. They are baisically opening up the game to be modded by others. Others that can fix the interface without copyright infringement. (because it's a mod and the original game is still the original game) At least that's how I think it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamoecw Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 no clue about the copyright issues, but as far as opening it up to the modders, pretty much every innovation that has happened in an xcom game that was trying to reinvent xcom, only better, has that innovation modded into the original xcom, either before or after the remake. the only real problem holding back having xcom made up like a modern game is the original engine limitations. redoing the engine to a modern standard will eliminate most of those issues, and in time could result in a truly modern xcom. already it has civilians that fight back, like xenonaughts, and more useful interiors during terror missions. it isn't even done yet, when star control 2 was redone just like xcom is being redone, it led to 'project 6014' which is a completely redone star control game, with modern graphics, interface, and story, essentially a modern day star control game. expect in open xcom in 5-10 years to result in an xcom remake that is free and rivals xenonaughts. in the meantime if you are someone who still plays xcom every once and a while to have your play time enhanced slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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