Is it possible to actually secure an UFO? (Yes!)

[Aaron]

I can see this being annoying right now, but hopefully once we fiddle the AI to make them try to retake the UFO it will be very rare to actually have aliens left outside the UFO once you capture it.

[Solver]

I am not sure if that change would be beneficial for the AI, though. Would it not then make sense for me to rush straight for the UFO (which aliens will be defending anyway with AI tweaks), clear it, and then just set up a defensive position inside to kill the remaining aliens easier than "in the field"?

[Gauddlike]

It would depend on how easy the enemy were to kill I guess.

If the reinforcements started to arrive before you had the craft cleared (which would be likely on the bigger craft) you would be fighting on two fronts.

You would need to split your forces between holding the door (or doors) and clearing.

It would likely be a faster option if you could manage it but more risky.

It gives you a decision at least.

Slow and steady with less risk or zerg fest with a chance of being overwhelmed.

It also depends on if the enemy trickle back to the ship one or two at a time or if they assemble for a proper assault.

Having half your team waiting for a lone Sebillian to wander in through the door is a lot easier than trying to take out 3 or 4 of them armed with grenades and breaching together.

[Sathra]

Alien Analysis techs give a damage bonus. Or at least it should, since I don't think anyone's tested it. Upcoming damage log should give help with this.

[Solver]

If all you get is a 10% bonus to damage for each alien type captured, I do not feel that is enough. There should be stronger incentives for capturing all sorts of aliens. Maybe letting me sell their (undamaged) artifacts for a higher sum of money, or something else. I think this was one of the flaws of the original game. All you really needed to capture was any random alien (1st storyline step), a leader (2nd storyline step), a commander (final storyline step), a navigator (for Hyperwave) and a psionic alien (for psi). That's a maximum of five aliens but it could be less if the first alien you captured was a navigator, and if the leader/commander was psionic, so just three aliens minimum.

[Lightzy]

The AI won't stand a chance no matter what you do if you can get soldiers in the ship..

A human player setting firezones and ambushes will effortlessly cut down any returning alien.

I don't think it's a good idea, to have that as a win rule. I can forsee infinity problems with the AI and exploitability... it's only possible to get hit now because the human is always the one actively attacking, and so having to run around without cover just waiting for reaction shots.

If you had a map where the aliens had an attack objective... hmm.

would be interesting actually.

But you'd need to have like 2-3 aliens for each xenonaut

Edited June 7, 2013 by Lightzy

[Sathra]

I used them to unlock toxic gas grenades in my mod. They're probably wildly imbalanced but they're also expensive, extremely dangerous to friendlies and have low spread.

[Gauddlike]

I thought the damage bonus part of the alien autopsy was going to be removed when they became 'free' research with no time sink?

@lightzy So what do you see as an alternative?

Personally I hate hunting the last alien down on a map, especially on the less open maps like a decent industrial complex.

That is not an interesting mission objective, it is a chore.

Alternative objectives to allow you to win should be possible.

Capturing the UFO is one option and the crew returning to defend it is both logical and a potential down side to going straight for it.

If the enemy has decent breaching behaviours then it would not be a walk in the park defending against them.

A few smoke grenades and a couple of Sebillians in your face could make a mess of an entrenched Xenonauts squad in the alien turn as most of the heavy weapons have poor reaction fire capabilities.

[Phoenix]

Don't you get the bonus dmg for the life aliens though? according to research results you do.

[Gauddlike]

Chris said the damage bonus was no longer used by the autopsies:

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/4372-Research-Tree-Structure-Discussion

When I later asked if the code was still available for modders he replied that it was still there but not used in the vanilla game:

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/4372-Research-Tree-Structure-Discussion?p=55487&viewfull=1#post55487

That idea may have changed or the files just not altered yet though.

[Solver]

By the way, what does logically happen in the game, lore-wise, if you secure a UFO? Who flies the dropship back? Do your troops fly back in the UFO? Does the last alien die due to poisoning or run away?

[Gauddlike]

No idea.

I always figured once you hold the UFO long enough to be sure it is safe and not going to be leaving again you would just leave any surviving enemy to local forces.

Once you hand the UFO over to whoever is stripping it down you hop back in the dropship and leave.

[StellarRat]

I hate hunting all over the map for one stupid alien. I'd rather just take the ship and leave anyone that I didn't find to the local farmer shotguns and police.

[Lightzy]

Gaud, maybe do so that if you can't find the last alien for 3-5 turns, it escapes and you win the mission with a -4 to the mission score. but only if it's the last alien.

edit: wait, there's something like this in the game already! -2 to score. alien escapes. you win.

problem solved and no need for further AI programming which is impossible and will lead to 'gaming' the game.

now I don't mind a special mission where once you take the craft (say, for a larger craft), you get a counterattack and have to defend it (valuable artefacts inside!), but that's a large scale defense action. not sitting around with full AP snipers waiting to kill anything that comes remotely close like a shuffling zombie (can't expect much from AI)

Edited June 7, 2013 by Lightzy

[Gauddlike]

That would just move the problem along by one alien.

You end up pixel hunting to find the second last alien then hitting end turn 5 times instead of pixel hunting the last alien.

[Lightzy]

ok, so do you you truly believe that the game would be enhanced by this?

That the AI can handle it properly? that it would make the game more fun and deep than simply having the alien escape after 3 turns you haven't found em?

[StellarRat]

...(can't expect much from AI)...

Just remember the AI is not done. Besides, if the alien knows it is alone where else would it go? They can't survive very long without their ships, remember? Better to die fighting than just choke to death when your air runs out.

[Gauddlike]

Yes I do believe that alternative objectives would improve the game immensely over hunting the last alien (or second last) across the map.

Holding the enemy ship for several turns would fit with this.

Making sure that you have someone in both the engine room and control room as well as having to protect the entrance would prevent you having all of your forces available in any one spot.

The AI almost certainly can't handle it at the moment.

However if it is being designed to be able to handle a base assault then assaulting a UFO isn't so different.

As you said in an earlier post though it would depend a lot on available numbers as well as the AI.

[thothkins]

could someone post a video of tracking the last alien down in TFTD. Surely that should be enough to show what the game is trying to avoid. If there had been a surrender option in TFTD, I may have just given up to the last terrified alien just to end the misery of a ship mission.

[StellarRat]

could someone post a video of tracking the last alien down in TFTD. Surely that should be enough to show what the game is trying to avoid. If there had been a surrender option in TFTD, I may have just given up to the last terrified alien just to end the misery of a ship mission.

Right reminds me of the old song: "Lobsterman in the Closet"

[thothkins]

I remember Rock Lobster by the B52s...

[video=youtube;tDZy6-fMCw4]

[StellarRat]

Lobsterman in the Closet was more of a death metal song...

[Lightzy]

As far as I can see, currently there is no chasing around the last alien.

If you can't find it for 3 turns, I think, the alien escapes and you win with -2 points to score.

Works perfectly for me.

I don't remember exactly though because I stopped playing the game until it is fair again

[Sathra]

Try Tentaculat in a closet. I HATED Alien Colony missions for them (retreat after taking out the Synomium? NEVAR! LOOT LOOT LOOT).

[thothkins]

While I'm not sure if three turns may be a little quick for some alien hunters out there, it's a good solution Lightzy. I'll need to check it's in there.