Small, probably unpopular request about Hidden Movement screen

[ladlon]

Hi, I'm eagerly awaiting the Steam version to pre-order Xenonauts. Looks great so far, guys.

I actually have a small(?) request, which I suspect will be shot down. I would ask only that it be an optional setting, as I never want to suggest changing/removing/adding something that may affect other people's enjoyment of the game.

Simply put, I was wondering if it would be possible to have an on screen 'Hidden Movement' text over the play area (big text superimposed over the existing play area), rather than cutting to the existing 'hidden movement' image/text. The reason being, I personally find the jumping back and forth between the play area and that graphic a bit... jarring?.... annoying... I fully get why it's there (hidden movement, afterall!), but I personally think the same thing can be achieved by simply freezing the gaming area (rather than cutting away from it), and just putting the text 'HIDDEN MOVEMENT' superimposed over it.

Again, make it optional, so those who want it (or want to be fully faithful to the original X-Com) can have it, obviously. I just personally find it kind of throws me out of the moment, and subconsciously almost feels like a 'Footage Missing' kind of graphic!

Besides, having the gaming area still visible would not only be less jarring (at least to me!), but would allow you to still ponder the tactics/area, and might even add some paranoia, as you view the buildings, etc, wondering where that movement is happening.

But, ya, mostly because I just personally find the switch to the graphic a bit intrusive.

Please don't bash me on this, fellow gamers! I just was wondering if this could be an optional thing. I can't imagine it would be hard to do, and wouldn't mess up/compromise anything, as far as I can see.

Just my two cents... Thanks!

[irongamer]

I personally find the jumping back and forth between the play area and that graphic a bit... jarring?.... annoying... I fully get why it's there (hidden movement, afterall!), but I personally think the same thing can be achieved by simply freezing the gaming area (rather than cutting away from it), and just putting the text 'HIDDEN MOVEMENT' superimposed over it.

I actually agree about the jarring fidgety camera during the aliens' turn. It would be interesting to see it not moving around to get a feel for it. I wouldn't mind missing out some of the hints you get from it moving around.

[flashman]

it currently feels broken and i miss so much that your meant to see, like soldiers dying. I would also rather have it just stick to the battlescape. Civ and total war do that.

[ladlon]

I recently purchased Silent Storm 2 (...previously didn't really know about it, then made a sudden, spontaneous purchase when I saw it on sale, and after watching a vid on it). It is really excellent, and VERY similar to Xenonauts in many ways (gameplay, interface, etc), and it simply stays on the battle screen. If the enemy moving is visible, you see the movement/animation... if it's hidden, you (go figure) don't see anything moving (...just the bar indicator, showing how far in the turn completion it currently is). Works great, and achieves the same thing as the hidden movement screen, minus the jarring transitions (especially jarring when it's a short move!).

Ya, now that you mention it, one other thing that I sort of am disappointed in is how the camera jumps around during turns (ex. one of your guys fires, shot goes offscreen, camera jumps to the alien (who was offscreen), just in time to see it hit, then jumps back to your guy. Again, makes sense (and it certainly would be worse to have the camera jerkily follow the bullet while scrolling the screen)... but I kind of wish there was somehow a delay or some other method between the 'cut', as you often end up with this quick flash showing the alien getting hit, then jumping back to your guy. Not sure what the solution would be, since (again) I totally understand why it's done as it is currently. All I can think of is a slight delay once it draws up the 'cutaway' (the cut to the section of the map that was offscreen), so you have some read time after the cut, then you see the results. Maybe that would be a quick/easy solution? (and once again, perhaps an option, so it can remain faithful to the original, if people choose it to be).

[Waladil]

I actually fully agree with you, OP. I really don't like the "Hidden Movement" screen.

Just have the camera pop to motion when you can see it, and stay still when you don't. The "Hidden Movement" screen is really flow-breaking.

[Infinitum]

Agreeing with the OP (as I did on every previous thread begrudging it).

[ladlon]

Hello again, guys. Wow, I was actually expecting a lot of people shooting my idea down, but am really glad to see I'm not alone on this. I didn't notice any other threads on this (... I just joined a day or two ago, and had done a search for 'Hidden Movement', and didn't get any results that seemed to be what I was talking about). I'll have to check again. I'm curious what others have to say.

Hrmm... I'm sure they have millions of more important things to attend to, but hopefully the devs can make an optional 'Hidden Movement text over the play area' version (which I can't imagine would take long at all) for final release. I think the delay at the start of each cut to a different section of the playfield solution might be an easy fix for that other issue.

Now, if only I could convince someone to change those 'helmets' so they don't look like construction workers!

But, seriously, the project is looking great, and I applaud the efforts of everyone involved. As a gamer who is used to (and loved) the old-school games (where you had to think, and explore, and figure things out, etc), I am really pleased to see that there are others who still feel the same way (wanting games with stealth, strategy, freedom, etc), as well as the fact that the old school stuff is coming back lately (space sims, adventure games, etc).

[Gauddlike]

I prefer the hidden movement screen.

It is very x-com if nothing else.

On top of that I find that staring at the game map while it is frozen and can't be interacted with to be less interesting and much more frustrating than the HM image screen.

I would definitely have multiple images though that are randomly selected (a single image per turn, not each time one popped up).

[Sathra]

Having multiple Hidden Movement screens would be nice.

As for having an optional overlay instead of a screen, it sounds like a good idea. Maybe even have the words pulse redly!

[ladlon]

Yep, I totally respect players who want it just like the original X-Com, that's why I would suggest it be an optional setting.

[Gauddlike]

I would like the text to be modifiable as well.

I would want it to say Don't Panic: Hidden Movement in slowly pulsing but comforting red letters.

[erutan]

I don't see it becoming an option, that'd probably overcomplicate something that is a more or less working system. The camera work in combat is a little off (missed shots go back to your soldier, hits stay keep it on an alien, etc) so perhaps the overlay helps hide that a bit? I wouldn't want the camera jerking around?

I prefer the XCOM12 approach to this, but isn't a huge deal to me either way.

[ladlon]

Just freezing the camera and putting the text on top of the gameplay area (rather than cutting to the HM graphic) shouldn't mess anything up, though. You're basically just not cutting to that graphic, and just staying on the existing 'previous rendered frame' that is already there.

Is that what you mean by XCOM12, erutan? If so, ya, that's pretty much what I'm suggesting. Looking at the XCOM:EU vids, that's pretty much what they are doing... hold on the playing area, and just showing a text prompt. Just a lot smoother, without a jarring 'complete screen change'. Really helpful with it's a fast enemy turn (...a quick text prompt onscreen is less jarring than a quick jump to a completely different screen).

Seems there's a split in opinions, which is usual... Everyone has their own preferences, which is cool... All the more reason to make things optional and adjustable, so everyone is happy.

In the big picture, it's not a huge thing, obviously... Far more important things, for sure... But, it's always a bit of a drag when an otherwise great game is 'hampered' by a feature (be it gameplay, or graphic, or even audio) that annoys or disappoints you, to whatever degree. Simple things like not being able to turn off background music, for example, can be an annoyance... or an otherwise excellent sim having a sky graphic that looks horrible... Little things, to be sure, but they can be frustrating.

[GizmoGomez]

I'm fine with the way it is. The camera work needs, well, work, but once that's been done, it'll be fine.

I do like the idea of having several hidden movement screens, like, maybe one for each tile set (I almost said biome, I'm thinking in minecraft terms now haha), so one for industrial, middle east, etc. That would take quite a bit more painting, though, so it's probably not going to happen. It would look more polished in my opinion, however.

[erutan]

@ladlon Yup, that's what I meant and it's a suggestion I made somewhere in the past. I always change how I refer to the games, I usually call it EU12 vs EU94, but that time for whatever I switched things up.

We'll see how the hidden movement screen as is works when the camera works better (as gizmo pointed out).

[ladlon]

Hehe... Took me a moment to figure out the XCom12 reference, when you mentioned it first... I thought it was some mod for a second.

Ya, certainly not a deal breaker. Maybe someone will mod it later, if it still proves to be somewhat jarring to others. No biggie... just my initial observation from the vids.

I (as you could probably imagine) have a few other opinions on what I'd like changed... but, they are based on my own preferences overall, as opposed to how the original was (which I never actually played myself). Xenonauts would be my first XCom-esque experience (...whereas I've only just recently started actually playing turn-based tactical games, such as Silent Storm 2 and Frozen Synapse). I've always been interested in the genre, but oddly enough, never actually OWNED a game in that genre, that I can remember... only RTS's, really... and the Total War series.... and real-time 'realistic' first person games like the original Rainbow Six and Arma2.

Is there a vid of the most recent version of Xenonauts being played somewhere? I've been checking out vids, but they are of earlier versions than the one we are at currently.

[thothkins]

I'm all for a folder containing the Hidden Movement images that the game would select from. Players could then place their own images in there.

[Gauddlike]

Allow transparency in the hidden movement image overlays and you could have both ways working just by adding an image that is mainly transparent with whatever text overlay you want.

You could see through the background so the map is visible, you could even add a sepia/red/grey tinge to the battlefield view or whatever you wanted to do.

[Virosa]

Just focus on where you were, lock the camera and get on with it. The HIDDEN movement screen is irritating, make me lose my bearing and its also buggy, it sometimes hide something you should see... like your soldiers getting shot or you getting reaction fire.

[Gauddlike]

Those same bugs would apply if you locked the screen.

Unless you had every one of your troops on the same screen then you would be unlikely to have the camera in a position to see all of the shots being fired at your troops without the camera jumping around.

It would still hide those things as they are bugs in the tracking of events, nothing to do with the HM screen.

I find it makes me lose my bearings when the camera jumps around that much, regardless of the HM screen, I prefer the screen because I find it frustrating staring at a frozen game screen that I cannot influence.

The HM screen takes that away and immediately shows that you are not in control.

[Sathra]

I like the hidden movement screen hiding the map. Lets you not see where the aliens are shooting from (though it is behind in switching sometimes, especially with reaction fire).

[ladlon]

I like the hidden movement screen hiding the map. Lets you not see where the aliens are shooting from (though it is behind in switching sometimes, especially with reaction fire).

No, I'm all for the concept of the movement that is not within visual range/angle not being shown. That totally makes sense. What I don't personally like is it switching to that particular graphic during these hidden moves, as it's a bit jarring (especially when it continually jumps back and forth between it and the gaming screen), and generally feels like a 'Footage Missing' temp graphic (...no offense to the artwork, BTW).

I'm just suggesting that it would be less jarring to instead have the gaming screen 'freeze' (simply not animate/jump to the enemy that's moving hidden, but just stay where it is), and have Hidden Movement text appear over the screen. That would be smoother than the whole screen changing. XCOM (2012) does that, for example.

The current Hidden Movement graphic is completely faithful to the original X-Com, and I would never suggest to get rid of it entirely for that reason. I'm just suggesting that there be a settings option where users that want to can have it one way or another. Just because something is faithful to an older game, doesn't mean that it's necesarily the best way. So, in cases where something can be updated to make it work better, have it optional, between that, or the original way.

If the graphic is in fact laid over the gaming screen, then (as one user pointed out) perhaps you could just swap the current graphic with one that has a transparent background, and then (theoretically) you'd get that nice superimposed text effect (rather than the whole screen changing) that I'm suggesting. If that's the case, then being able to put in your own Hidden Movement screens would allow everyone to have it the way they want (faithful to the original, different graphic, text on black, or text over gaming screen).

Just asking for it to be optional, as I totally respect people wanting it to be as it currently is.

[Gauddlike]

The problem with asking for multiple methods is that it is more work for no real improvement to the game over a single method.

A single method that can achieve both desired outcomes would be better but still not likely to be done unless a convincing reason can be given for spending time and money making that change.

I don't know if the current image is an overlay or not, I was just putting forward another option that might accomplish all of the requirements if it was possible.

It wouldn't be game breaking for me to have the HM removed and replaced with a basic text prompt but I do feel it would lose something.

[Virosa]

Having the camera locked wouldnt have the same issues as having the Hidden Movement screen. By locked i mean you have no control over it and it doesn't move around in the dark to show enemy movements. The game could still center on human target IF target is a player human.

I havent played any of the real/old XCOMs, i have no idea of how things "used to be" so i'm not biased. I'm just thinking "in all of the 9001 games i've played, of all the way this issue was handled, which one would be the most appropriate?"

And TBH, i think we should look at Enemy Unknown. EU overdid it with the visual "sound" effect that point out where the closest alien is, but i think logically and i believe the best way to do it in case of doubt is intuitively;

-You certainly SHOULD be able to tell the approximate direction of gunshots.

-IF a bright shining balls of plasma enter your field of view, You definitively SHOULD be able to tell the direction it was shot from.

-You can't argue that there is no possible logical argument to not seeing if your soldier himself saw an alien and took a shot at it. (Reaction fire)

One could argue that in the heat of a gun fight, one of your men could get shot and not know where it came from, but you can't use this argument to justify being 99% blind when it is your enemy's turn to act.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Virosa

[Gauddlike]

That argument doesn't really apply though.

The HM screen is only displayed when there is nothing happening that your soldiers can see.

If they can see something happening then the HM screen clears and that action is displayed.

It is not working 100% of the time at the moment but that would be the case even if the game level was displayed.

The camera just doesn't track events properly at the moment which is a bug, not a feature of the HM system.

You should be able to see any gunshot that passes through your soldiers field of vision.

You should see any movement that is in view of a soldier.

You should see any time a soldier fires a reaction shot.

The only difference between the systems is aesthetic.

What is displayed when nothing is happening in the view range of your soldiers:

HM system - Displays the HM image.

Text Overlay System - Displays an image of part of the battlefield where nothing is happening.

At all other times the display would be identical.