Milestone 5 STABLE Balance & Feedback

[Skitso]

22 minutes ago, gG-Unknown said:

Althou it is interesting and logical, I do not support that. Main game is Ground Combat, second game is base management, thirth game is research and production, fourth game is air combat, sixth game is geo-scape.

When ever you improve or rise complexity of any other game than main game, it spread attention and make more difficult to handle.

Current geo-scape game is shallow yes, but it is enough to create feeling of rule global operation company. If some  part of game could handle rising complexity, then ground combat. For example smoke  x gas x fire environment interaction is weak. Interaction with civilians is weak. Interaction with ammo clips and their weight and weapon weight with or without ammo, this is complex system and totally underdeveloped.  and so on and so forth ...

Yeah, and I couldn't agree more about GC being the meat of the game. Still, this kind of system doesn't add much complexity, but more additional flavor and realism. Supporters fleeing when panic levels rise just feels cool and adds to the sense of dread. Crumbling society should be simulated and shown to player in other cool ways than just reduced monthly budget. Actually now that I think of it, it might be even cooler mechanic to just start to disable (green to grey) supporters as panic levels rise. And on top of that, prevent new supporter hires if panic in said region is higher than, say 75%.

Edited April 29 by Skitso

[gG-Unknown]

Balancing Stun & EMP

Key changes :

1. EMP from fire-arm weapons ( not grenades) disable cloaking device of Wraight/Etheral. One hit is enough to overload it, doesnt matter if field is active or not at the moment of impact. Cloak is disabled until end of combat. Reasoning : all EMP guns have short range, if you manage to sneak on opponent so close with a niche weapon, you should get reward. It might look like an OP feature, but compare this : if you get 6 tiles close to opponent with Machinegun in your hand, than opponent is most probably dead. 
2. Baton makes kinetic damage on impact. It is a stick in your hand, then you whack the  opponent with the stick. So it applies Kinetic, Stun, EMP three damage types by one weapon hit. Reasoning : 1. it is logical there is an physical impact damage. 2. It solves the issue that reaper zombie is invulnerable to beating 3. Calculation of kinetic dmg is based on Strength. More Strength means more damage: RoundUP(Soldier's_Strengh / 10) + 5

3. EMP on robots work the same way as Stun on living. Consistency first ! 

• do not remove HP directly, but build up a "shadow" damage.
• dissipate few EMP dmg each turn so robot could walk it off eventually
• Consequences : reward for robots can be different. Physically destroyed robot by firearms/explosives gives less resources than EMP overloaded. Reward logic is same with living aliens : more money for captured alien vs  corpse

Baton : Cause 3 types of dmg. Armour pen changes 25 to 20.

• Living targets : 20 Stun dmg changes to 10 Stun and ~10 Kinetic
• Robotic targets : 30 EMP dmg changes to 20 EMP and ~10 Kinetic

  (for precise Kinetic dmg calculation see above. Damage is in range  8-15, it looks like rise but there is armour soak). For player sanity and prevention that alien will be killed instead of captured : Stun dmg is applied first, if opponent is not Unconscious then  apply EMP, then if opponent is not Unconscious then last dmg type applied is Kinetic.

Improved Baton : Keep base kinetic dmg (count 10HP as average) but rise up Stun. It is still the same stick with same  whacking power  and same strength of the soldier, only added is stunning technology.(pun intended)  New (10HP_Kinetic + Stun) dmg = Current (Stun) dmg

Stun gun : is a niche weapon >> need more love

after the advent of improved melee combat (suppres-then-hit) Stun gun is a niche weapon for capturing aliens. Therefore rise up EMP dmg from 22 to 32 so the  weapon stays relevant as anti-robot niche weapon. Second improvement of niche usage of StunGun is ability disable Wraight Cloaking device.( See Key changes above) Third improvement,  ( a reality check) , 2 HP kinetic damage is added. Stun Gun shoots  needles on wire which cause damage. For consistency and player sanity reasons dmg types are applied in same order as  new baton does. Result : Stun gun is very situational weapon with niche usage but still interesting.

Flashbang : small stun dmg is added.

add 3 HP Stun dmg. Reasoning : It better communicates that flash-bang has a  small Stun dmg then improved Electric grenade has more Stun dmg. There is also player motivation added to hit intended target, to get more stun dmg (grenade fall off dmg applies) On top, ( reality check) , people who experience flashback grenade  are dizzy, prone to falloff.

Electric grenade : is overpowered

You can load up with a shield and inventory full of Electric grenades and you are golden. Reduce Stun and EMP to the same value : 20  and apply dmg falloff mechanic. Reasoning: as long as Stun and EMP use thee same game mechanic and units have about same amount of HP, there is no reason why complicate things more. Just use same number for both. Grenade is strong anyway. NOTE : It would be nice to use variable blast range same as ElectroShock weapons,( it looks like it based on same technology trick), but for balancing reasons,  lets change one thing at the time. Perhaps is better to get hands on experience how the mechanic works before we change too much.

ElectroShock Weapons : are based on ball lightning phenomenon, use New Variable Blast Radius  mechanic

• too expensive production, make it cheaper.Compare amount of alloys consumed on a firearm with a fighter jet (it is nonsense) >>> balancing >>> cut resource cost AND rise production time;
• For this weapon type (pistol and rifle) ads 10 HP thermal damage.(Ball lightning has core made of plasma) Stun and EMP set to the same value pistol=35, rifle=45. Lore : Highly experimental weapon based  on physics of ball lightning phenomenon, therefore it is bit unpredictable. Use at one's own risk ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning On impact each shot creates random bast radius. Possible Sizes are [0,5; 1; 1,5 ; 2] tiles. Blast radius has no preview like grenades do. It demands more skill from player use it safely, occasional self-stun is intended. It is still straight firing weapon no ballistic curve involved. For damage calculation apply (grenade) damage falloff  and dmg  cut-off rule which says : 100% central tile and 50% edge tile. Variable blast radius is a double edge feature which could surprise Xenonuts soldiers in face to face fights, especially considering max range of these weapons.
• ElektroShock weapons use the unified (interchangeable) ammo clip, same size, same charge count of 3.
• this weapon type (pistol and rifle) disable cloaking device of Wraight/Etheral ( See Key changes above)

// Done

// thanks skaianDestiny for provide missing numbers.

Edited May 1 by gG-Unknown

[gG-Unknown]

I have found that I cannot find numbers of current Electro nades or ElektroShock weapons.

My previous save is non compatible, my current save is not developed so far, and game official wiki is trash.

If you could post numbers of these, so I could finish my balancing article.

Thanks

[skaianDestiny]

35 minutes ago, gG-Unknown said:

I have found that I cannot find numbers of current Electro nades or ElektroShock weapons.

My previous save is non compatible, my current save is not developed so far, and game official wiki is trash.

If you could post numbers of these, so I could finish my balancing article.

Thanks

Edited May 1 by skaianDestiny

[bah]

A bit late to the party, but I only just finished the campaign on milestone 5. I've played one and a half (more on that later) campaigns on whatever are the default settings on iron man.

1) Squad Sizes

Sixteen does feel like too many on regular missions, I agree on leaving it only for the final mission

 

2) Colossus Armour

At least to me the most underwhelming aspect of the Colossus armour is just how useless they become when supressed. The only thing they can do is move, and there's a decent chance you won't move far enough to avoid being supressed again next turn. For that exact reason I always have to assign at least one extra unit to babysit them at all times.

 

3) Wraith Cloaking Field

I don't like the current approach, early game it feels like a silly minigame and late game it doesn't really make much of a difference. I'd rather have something that ties to their supposed role, ie, something that they activate either when they want to hunt or they want to flee. Maybe a toggleable state that reduces their time units (or something amongst those lines), though that might complicate things on the AI front.

 

Additional thoughts:

The explosive types need some rebalancing/rework. Specially early game the demo charges do too much compared to frag grenades, and I have yet to see a reason to pack a C4.

 

Gas masks also need some rebalancing/rework. Early game they only protect against smoke, and since the enemies don't use smoke grenades you don't really need to worry about it (unless you messed up). Mid game in theory it might be useful against gas grenades, but in one and a half campaigns I haven't been thrown one, (they only use them against civilians), so that is also a bit questionable. Late game pretty much every armour has it built-in, so it becomes completely useless.

 

Some of the tech also need rebalancing: on my first failed playthrough I researched and built accelerated weapons, but turned out to be a big waste of time and resources. On my second playthrough I skipped it entirely and it didn't feel like I missed anything. Those jet speed upgrades also feel pretty useless for their cost, as does the whole base defense thingy (I didn't see a single base attack on both runs).

 

The clearner base mission shows up too late. By the time it arrives not only it is rather easy to complete, but it is also too close to the end of the phase and its reward is worthless, so clearing it feels more like a chore than an achievement.

 

The doomsday -> panic transition. On my first (failed) campaign I did everything I could to keep the doomsday counter low, including spending operation points and rushing some of my best soldiers to their doom on abduction missions in order to save extra civilians (and lack of troops was a deciding factor on me entering a doom spiral). But when the doomsday counter is replaced with the panic meters, it has no effect on where it started, so it doesn't really matter whether you have 1% or 99% on the doomsday counter. On my second run I didn't waste any resources trying to keep the counter too low and that put me in a much better position.

 

Alien grenades. I don't know if it was RNG, but the only aliens that made proper use of grenades on the two runs were Wraiths. I never got gas grenades tossed at me and I don't know if the sectons/psyons/mantids even have grenades (at least they never used one), while Wraiths killed quite a few of my units with grenades (the nail in the coffin of my furst run was the first mission where I saw them using grenades, where they killed five of my guys with two grenades). 

 

Reapers are in a bit of a weird spot. In some map locations, they are terrifying, while on open areas they are the easiest enemy in the game.

 

Servitors have too much offensive capability for a support unit. They should have its support abilities buffed and its offensive capabilities nerfed.

 

Operation endgame felt way too easy, I had only one real casualty on both parts and that's because I decided to sacrifice him to prevent reinforcements (since I didn't know what would arrive, but in hindsight I could have easily dealt with them without any losses).

 

[Skitso]

• Security Supporter that gives -1 panic per region per month seems a little weak compared to other supporters.
• Skipping entirely (or failing) a VIP extraction mission has a measly penalty of +10 doomsday. For such a hard mission with no other rewards than -20 doomsday, it's too low.
  • Make the penalty at least a + 20 doomsday and add some operation points either for completing the mission or as a collectibles during the mission for me to even consider doing it.
• Stun gun doesn't feel like it's worth it. I get that with baton you need to get up close to the target, but it's just so much more reliable to use.
  • Stun gun needs more stun damage/better accuracy/lower TU cost to feel like an upgrade.
• Reduce tension's instant doomsday reduction feels unrealistic and gamey.
  • Make it reduce doomsday gradually until it's cooldown is over instead.
• Having the game's first UFO crash site being auto generated on the other side of the globe isn't that satisfying.
  • Maybe force first scout UFO's to spawn around players fist base. 
• Capturing cleaner VIP gives a reward of 30 OP, which seems quite low, compared to hacking a computer which grants you 10 OP.
  • Cleaner VIP missions should act like alien bases as in being permanent missions that generate doomsday continuously until cleared. Reward would be stopping the doomsday damage and optionally getting OP's from capturing the VIP/computers.  

Edited June 2 by Skitso

[Skitso]

Cleaner convoy mission reward is -20 doomsday and money. I would rather have just the money from it. Make the cleaner misson rewards more diverse.

Spawn more missions, where player can choose what to take (missions would be available only for few hours so you'd have time to do only few of them, plus this would also force player to do more night missions)

• If you need money, you can run more convoy missions
• If you need to deal with doomsday, run cleaner VIP or abduction missions
• If you need more elite soldiers, run soldier rescue missions
• If you need operation points, run cleaner intel missions
• If you need more supporters, run escort VIP missions

Sure, all missions could give some tiny panic/doomsday reduction, but with this system, you'd give the player more agency and the game would feel a lot more dynamic.

I would love it if the geoscape looked more like this:

This would make me plan my fly routes and manage the time - what I need at that point, what is most important and where I can get in time: My doomsday is really high, there's two missions that lower it close to each other in Europe, maybe I need to take those... hmm, but I have operation points to handle it too, so maybe I'll tackle the convoy and escort VIP missions that are close to each other in Australia instead to get more cash and a free supporter. Oh, but I lost a bunch of soldiers in last mission so should I go rescue 3 experienced soldiers from south America? But it's so isolated, that there's no time to take other mission then.... Planning this like this would make the geoscape gameplay SO much more compelling.

You could even add more mission types in later DLC's to add into this gameplay loop: (I love DLC's that add more layers to the main game)

• Kill the infiltrator (remove one infiltrator without spending OP)
• Save a research/engineering team (wave defense mission with a reward of +scientists/engineers)
• Alien convoy (Same as cleaner convoy but against aliens for alenium/alloys reward)
• etc..

Edited June 2 by Skitso

[skaianDestiny]

Yeah I feel like things could stand to be busier overall. Especially in the late game it doesn't feel like an invasion or war, it feels like the aliens sending like 3 UFOs (+ escorts) at a time every few weeks to die.

[ih8california]

On 6/2/2025 at 12:49 PM, Skitso said:

Cleaner convoy mission reward is -20 doomsday and money. I would rather have just the money from it. Make the cleaner misson rewards more diverse.

Spawn more missions, where player can choose what to take (missions would be available only for few hours so you'd have time to do only few of them, plus this would also force player to do more night missions)

• If you need money, you can run more convoy missions
• If you need to deal with doomsday, run cleaner VIP or abduction missions
• If you need more elite soldiers, run soldier rescue missions
• If you need operation points, run cleaner intel missions
• If you need more supporters, run escort VIP missions

Sure, all missions could give some tiny panic/doomsday reduction, but with this system, you'd give the player more agency and the game would feel a lot more dynamic.

I would love it if the geoscape looked more like this:

This would make me plan my fly routes and manage the time - what I need at that point, what is most important and where I can get in time: My doomsday is really high, there's two missions that lower it close to each other in Europe, maybe I need to take those... hmm, but I have operation points to handle it too, so maybe I'll tackle the convoy and escort VIP missions that are close to each other in Australia instead to get more cash and a free supporter. Oh, but I lost a bunch of soldiers in last mission so should I go rescue 3 experienced soldiers from south America? But it's so isolated, that there's no time to take other mission then.... Planning this like this would make the geoscape gameplay SO much more compelling.

You could even add more mission types in later DLC's to add into this gameplay loop: (I love DLC's that add more layers to the main game)

• Kill the infiltrator (remove one infiltrator without spending OP)
• Save a research/engineering team (wave defense mission with a reward of +scientists/engineers)
• Alien convoy (Same as cleaner convoy but against aliens for alenium/alloys reward)
• etc..

I would love to see a geoscape like that. 

I don't even think it would need to be a DLC and had a suggestion a while ago that periodically you would get a "mission(not necessarily a tactical mission)/objective" that would automatically recruit a support or eliminate an infiltrator.

[Skitso]

On 5/29/2025 at 2:50 PM, Skitso said:

• Reduce tension's instant doomsday reduction feels unrealistic and gamey.
  • Make it reduce doomsday gradually until it's cooldown is over instead.

I feel the killing of infiltrators shouldn't be instant either. It should feel like commencing a high stakes operation which would take like from 3 to 8 days for some operators to carry out. Isolated infiltrators could be 1-2 days faster to kill and guarded might take 1-2 days longer. Stuff like this would reduce the feeling of just clicking red tiles to grey.

Speaking of infiltrators, should supporter states be called isolated/guarded like infiltrators are? I suppose them being fearful/eager would make more sense in this context instead. Region panic could then define how many of the regions supporters are fearful or eager to join Xenonauts.

Edited June 4 by Skitso

[st3fan21]

Hy,

First of all, i have played the first Xenonauts with and without mods a lot and i remember using the Predator Assault Armor (Colossus Armor in Xenonauts 2) only after discovering that LMG were buffed - less TU, less recoil.

Without that, you lose the ability to throw grenades and you gain very little armor.

Even after the 70 armor upgrade the Colossus is not that good.

So, you really need to:

1 - Make the LMG more effective when used by the Colossus - likely via reducing the TU cost to fire it, so it can be used more like an assault rifle (As you said)

A powerful melee weapon -sure - but the LMG should be better

A super-heavy combat shield - sure it could be interesting

A rocket launcher - YES - I remember this was present in the first xenonauts- maybe it was a mod but it was great

Also the grenade launcher should be compatible with Colossus

Edited June 5 by st3fan21

[Skitso]

On 6/4/2025 at 9:36 AM, Skitso said:

I feel the killing of infiltrators shouldn't be instant either. It should feel like commencing a high stakes operation which would take like from 3 to 8 days for some operators to carry out. Isolated infiltrators could be 1-2 days faster to kill and guarded might take 1-2 days longer. Stuff like this would reduce the feeling of just clicking red tiles to grey.

Speaking of infiltrators, should supporter states be called isolated/guarded like infiltrators are? I suppose them being fearful/eager would make more sense in this context instead. Region panic could then define how many of the regions supporters are fearful or eager to join Xenonauts.

Regarding the process of killing infiltrators, the slot should be left empty when the assassination has been succesfully carried out and then be refilled with a new potential supporter after a random amount of days (2-6 days)

[gG-Unknown]

There is a method implemented, where standard move costs 3 TU then move in wheat field costs 4TU. Also nice thing is that path line changes from green to yellow.

I like that, we should see this mechanic more often.

Now, use the mechanic for snow:

Move on snow cost 4 TU while move on the concrete tile paths costs 3 TU. It could creates some nice situations where  soldiers would rather use paths.

For compensation slow of movement,  add one more turn for timed  missions which has snow. Especially abduction type.

Edited June 10 by gG-Unknown

[Skitso]

Interceptors shouldn't be able to shoot UFOs when they are on top of each other. UFOs can't do it, so why interceptors should?

[Skitso]

Aborting an air combat against a faster UFO fighter results in a hilarious situation where the Angel can safely just fly back to the base while the UFO fighter tails it but can't engage it.

[Skitso]

There should be a place where you can see all the active buffs you've earned (from interrogations, corpse analyses etc.)

[Skitso]

My limiting resource is still money all the time. At least until abductors, I can build and update everything I have money and time for.

1. UFOs that don't generate crash sites (probes, fighters) should give only half or less of the exotic materials they give now
2. Shot down UFO's should reward less exotic materials.
3. Landed UFOs should reward good amount of exotic materials (like they are currently) and UFOs should land more often. (UFOs should land only nights for proper risk/reward)
4. Abduction tubes shouldn't give any exotic materials. (not sure if they do any more)

[gG-Unknown]

15 hours ago, Skitso said:

My limiting resource is still money all the time. At least until abductors, I can build and update everything I have money and time for.

1. UFOs that don't generate crash sites (probes, fighters) should give only half or less of the exotic materials they give now
2. Shot down UFO's should reward less exotic materials.
3. Landed UFOs should reward good amount of exotic materials (like they are currently) and UFOs should land more often. (UFOs should land only nights for proper risk/reward)
4. Abduction tubes shouldn't give any exotic materials. (not sure if they do any more)

Are your ideas based on first  100 days as usual ?

e.i. not valid for 70 percent of the campaign.

[Skitso]

13 minutes ago, gG-Unknown said:

Are your ideas based on first  100 days as usual ?

e.i. not valid for 70 percent of the campaign.

Well, the first ~130 days, but yeah. I'm not playing further before v1.0

Btw, love your youtube playthroughs. (Not watching to the end though )

Edited Thursday at 04:56 AM by Skitso