Milestone 5 STABLE Balance & Feedback

[kyu bey]

2 hours ago, fortydayweekend said:

I never saw a landed UFO, again that felt weird.

It's because you will at best see 2 group of ufos & obviously you will send your planes to shoot it down (it's only landing after some long trip. Not instant appear, a few seconds later landing).
I got like 1 / 2 landing ufo on average when my angel can't chase them.

[fortydayweekend]

13 minutes ago, kyu bey said:

It's because you will at best see 2 group of ufos & obviously you will send your planes to shoot it down (it's only landing after some long trip. Not instant appear, a few seconds later landing).
I got like 1 / 2 landing ufo on average when my angel can't chase them.

Yeah I'm sure I could let them land instead of shooting them down, but e.g. in original UFO defense you'd get UFOs land very quickly after appearing on radar (like they entered the atmosphere well out of radar range and were near the end of their trip when you see them). So you'd get UFOs landing too quickly to intercept.

I'm not sure about how Xenonauts works but it feels like you always have time to intercept.

More randomness to the missions is good especially in the mid-game where it's mainly just UFOs with occasional terror (that you might be skipping).

[kyu bey]

2 hours ago, fortydayweekend said:

Yeah I'm sure I could let them land instead of shooting them down, but e.g. in original UFO defense you'd get UFOs land very quickly after appearing on radar (like they entered the atmosphere well out of radar range and were near the end of their trip when you see them). So you'd get UFOs landing too quickly to intercept.

I'm not sure about how Xenonauts works but it feels like you always have time to intercept.

More randomness to the missions is good especially in the mid-game where it's mainly just UFOs with occasional terror (that you might be skipping).

I don't play the older one, so no idea (oldest i played is the modern xcom.. iirc enemy within).
But iirc if you upgrade your radar (which imo waste of money), only the ufo type with lines 'ground attack' that will land.
I could be wrong though since it's rare & from 5 runs, i only do that radar upgrade like 1 time.

Also, like i said before.. it's taking a long trip 1st.
The weird one for me is the ufo that wants to aim at base. That type can magically disappear when it's still like 1-2cm to my base & suddenly start a base def mission.
 

True. Everytime i see lategame terror, i'm tempted to just skip it. Simply because that cyberdrone(s) could be there too. Most of my xenos death are from that 1 alien.

It can just blast through walls & appear (mostly) from my blind spot --> 3 shots --> 1 xeno dead. At times i just start praying it doesn't exist & just do that terror mission.
Too bad the actual variations (data, vip escort, kill vip, ambush) are 1 time thing.

[gG-Unknown]

How do you handle Simbiots ?

well, you do it wrong !

Tracked MARS and Colosus Crushin power are best to deal with menace. Run over them crush them !

// it is request : add ability for Tracked versions of MARS and Colossus simple walk/run over the Simbiots. Let me feel the power of the Colosus. Important add satisfying  crackling/snapping sound!

Edited April 23 by gG-Unknown

[Chris]

You already can crush the Symbiotes!

[Skitso]

Yeah, I can confirm this. Crushing symbiots has been a thing as long as they've been in the game.

[paulgoodenough]

Hey guys

I've logged over 220 hours on this, and I LOVE this game. Please know that everything below is because I want to see if there's ways of making this better. Here's my feedback...

Gets boring
As the game goes on, missions have too many bad guys, and too many troops. This means you've already been through a tonne of these levels and seen it all before, and they get more frustrating and repetitive as you get further into the game - and take a LOT LOT longer. This is even more of an issue if you have to blood in new soldiers as they can barely move, so you have to be more cautious and big levels takes hours... uh.

This is further exacerbated with the Harvester missions as you kinda have to crawl around the ship slowly... so they can take hours (which is super annoying if you've already done four or five of them.) Yes, I know you can choose to take the money instead, but then your troop development suffers... it's kinda a lose lose situation and the progress towards the end of the game becomes glacial. I just wanna see the new stuff

Base levels 
Can we get a light or something around the doors? They're hard to see and discern from the other wall plates. I've had multiple times where I've just walked past doors and then spent ages wandering around bases like a loon. Also, why are bases dark at night time? They've got lights... 

Research trees
I found I researched to the point I was offered (but couldn't produce) the glowing blue plating (can't remember what it's called now, sorry) but then I couldn't engineer it because I needed reflective plating unlocked - but the info panel doesn't inform you which research tree that sits within (or that it was in fact research at all). This confused me for quite a while. And when I worked it out, I basically have to go backwards and research things I'd already surpassed to get it. Not a big deal, but confusing. 

New Weapons/vehicles/monsters etc
Yep, all good. No real negative comments on any of it. I think for me the only thing I'd say is that they don't add much to the overall gameplay.

Operation points
Love this. Maybe you could add some sort of randomiser thing in there too. This is great though. Good work. Doomsday went away too quickly. More of that please Check out what they've done in Pandemic Legacy (board game) for some good inspiration on how to spend points. 

Overall
The Operation Points and the base sabotage was great. More of that. And Yes seeing different bad guys and getting different weapons is cool, but it feels like the same meal we've had all along, but with some garnish added. It didn't really 'add' much for me. (sorry!!!) 

For me, what I want to see is more originality in the missions - as is the core of the game and why I play it, and it's the one thing that doesn't seem to change that much. I do recognise we've got more maps, but they're mostly variants on the same theme. I've got past the orbiting platform sabotage and I'm just desperately hoping not to have to go through any more missions while I'm researching the base attack (I've already had three) as I can get through about 2 missions in an evening. 

As before, the winning tactic I've found is go slow, let them attack you, wear down their numbers with snipers and then slowly gang up on what's left with snipers from a distance. Seems to work in every situation, every time. Which is great for me, but again, it does add to it being a bit boring towards the end of the game. 

Things that I'd love in terms of strategy and tactics

• Missions that require careful thought about who goes on them and what they take
• More tactical variance in missions - e.g. having troops hide and jump out, using sewers, leaving mines and traps
• Strategic choices in terms of regions (there's some great inspiration in Pandemic Legacy again, when you have to decide which counties to sacrifice and which to save) 

I mentioned before I'd love to see something to keep me guessing, like maybe:

• Missions that require different tactics (e.g. Race to the high ground, get to the auto turret before the aliens do and turn it on them before they turn it on you) 
• an elevator mission, where you're in a lift and you have to clear out a skyscraper floor by floor
• Or a mission where you've got to position your troops around your base perimeter, so they can pick off a hoard of incoming aliens
• Capture the flag style levels where the winner between you and the aliens gets a bonus weapon/event that upsets the balance 
• Boss levels with a single massively tough alien.
• Missions with side quests (do you try and complete the mission as ordered, or do you raid the secret bunker and risk running out of time).
• Rescue the troop missions (where you can gain troops).
• Rescue the VIP from the mansion mission to gain more area funding.
• Suicide missions 
• Secret agent missions where you send in one troop who has got to avoid detection to steal plans and get out. 
• Moral/ethical choices - do you operate on your troops to get better results? Do you nuke their base knowing it will kill the surrounding innocents and raise panic? Maybe you can carpet bomb locations before you land, which increases the panic and reduces the things you recover as a result, but means less aliens?

I totally realise there's no way you'd do all of these. Of course not, but I wanted to spend a fair amount of time giving specific feedback in the hopes it directly helps you. For me, tweaking the difficulty, the damage, the load out etc doesn't challenge the main issue which is that the later missions become a slog and samey. 

And if you really wanted to blow people's mind, a player vs player one game or map would make all my christmasses come true. 

Thank you so much, all of you, for developing such an incredibly good game. It's absolutely brilliant. 

 

 

[gG-Unknown]

15 minutes ago, Skitso said:

Yeah, I can confirm this. Crushing symbiots has been a thing as long as they've been in the game.

By Colossus ?

[Skitso]

2 minutes ago, gG-Unknown said:

By Colossus ?

MARS. I'm not playing more than 150 days until v1.0

[gG-Unknown]

On 4/23/2025 at 10:31 PM, Chris said:

You already can crush the Symbiotes!

I didnt know that tracked MARS can do that, I do not use tanks. I didnt use tanks since EnemyUnknow so why would I change an old habit.

Anyway, request was aimed mostly at Colossus  usability and stumping power. ( see motivational video) I posted an cool idea of Colosuss ninja turtle , but  still thinking what else to add on Colossus which dont brake balance. 

Tracked MARS  was included for  consistency reasons. 

Edited April 28 by gG-Unknown

[skaianDestiny]

46 minutes ago, gG-Unknown said:

Anyway, request was aimed mostly at Colossus  usability and stumping power. ( see motivational video) I posted an cool idea of Colosuss ninja turtle , but  still thinking what else to add on Colossus which dont brake balance. 

Colossus should be able to do it too since it has the same Crushing trait as the MARS/ARES?

[kyu bey]

10 hours ago, paulgoodenough said:

Gets boring
As the game goes on, missions have too many bad guys, and too many troops. This means you've already been through a tonne of these levels and seen it all before, and they get more frustrating and repetitive as you get further into the game - and take a LOT LOT longer. This is even more of an issue if you have to blood in new soldiers as they can barely move, so you have to be more cautious and big levels takes hours... uh.

This is further exacerbated with the Harvester missions as you kinda have to crawl around the ship slowly... so they can take hours (which is super annoying if you've already done four or five of them.) Yes, I know you can choose to take the money instead, but then your troop development suffers... it's kinda a lose lose situation and the progress towards the end of the game becomes glacial. I just wanna see the new stuff
 

 

My worst offender is just that 1 (sometimes 2 / 3) alien that refuse to appear because it's chillin in a corner / near corner of the map.

That troll alien pads a lot of time to clear the time because i have no idea where & what it's. I need to move slowly and blasting walls.

 

I will argue the ufo (literally any to be honest) crash mission taking hours (means: min 2 hours) is absolutely on you. You're definitely walking just enough to reach cover & overwatch every turn.
I never even reach 2 hours in any mission.

[paulgoodenough]

Yep, I sure do - because (to me) that's the only way of beating a level pretty much flawlessly every time. 

[gG-Unknown]

1 hour ago, paulgoodenough said:

Yep, I sure do - because (to me) that's the only way of beating a level pretty much flawlessly every time. 

I know. Wait for 16 soldier in  squad, then move  them  on harvester mission across  map,  you  need to take holiday for the job done.

[paulgoodenough]

16 minutes ago, gG-Unknown said:

I know. Wait for 16 soldier in  squad, then move  them  on harvester mission across  map,  you  need to take holiday for the job done.

Oh crikey... yeah, I'm not sure I'm down for that action... 

[Rakiii]

Just kill aliens inside UFO and capture it for 3 turns (you dont need to kill all aliens on map).

[gG-Unknown]

Balancing modules

Accuracy module heavier for more bonus.

Intention : create class Sharpshooter similar to class Medic. Soldier class is made  by  Weight  Management.

Reasoning:  Current module is staple. It would be better make it more elite, more distinct to create a Sharpshooter role in the team.Current Acc module : 12 weight for 4 accuracy. (+1 acc for 3 weight) it means >> 21 weight for 7 acc is in line. Compared to  MedKit (weight 25) it is similar weight / price  ratio for a class specialisation. Although, Soldier  should be able carry MedKit   AND Accuracy module both at once, ( I dont like to close door to various loud-outs) but such combination gives tight limit to any other equip.

 

Strength module more strength with a drawback.

Intention : brings more decisions to the game. Current module is no-brainer, once you get  it, you distribute it to all soldiers thats it. There are no "pros vs cons".

Reasoning:  Rise up strength effect by +5 to  25 Strength AND add -5 Reaction. So it more helps weak soldiers carry  stuff but mules are slower in Over-watch shoot-outs and less effective in  melee fights. Lore : Mechanic actuators creates an external skeleton to help carry load, but all that electronics is a bit laggy. As everyone knows, best way to deal with Andron (which uses the same actuators) is baton to the head. 

 

Edited April 27 by gG-Unknown

[Gregor911]

On 3/31/2025 at 8:28 PM, Skitso said:

• Agree on air war
• Mind shield module suffers from similar issues as gas masks, as in being a completely passive item with no gameplay involved. I would change it to a first aid kit styled item that could be actively used to break already established mind control link.
• You seem to want a lot of nerfs in a lot of systems and enemy units yet it seems you've played in the absolute hardest difficulty setting. It's meant to be punishing...
• Giving colossus the ability to use modules and additional weapons and carry items make it just too similar to all other armours. Giving it a rocket launcher which people have waited for the whole game would feel amazing and unique.

Rocket launchers shouldn't be in Colossus armor because MARS provides that. Unless some other version of missiles, e.g. Anti-armor and not area. That would make sense. Unit type functionality shouldn't be duplicated.

[Skitso]

Now that we have supporter system and regional bonuses, making the game over rules more dynamic would really improve the game in my opinion. Currently it's just a gamey "lose 2 regions and it's a game over". I would love to see situations where I lose multiple regions and their region bonuses to really make the last months of the game feel like a high stakes race against all odds to the victory in a desperate all or nothing situation.

Chris probably wants the game to end when there's no hope left to cut the game short, but losing 2 regions really doesn't feel like a situation where humanity would surrender in such existential situation. Especially if Xenonauts had a solution and means to end the invasion planned in few weeks time. If we want to force the game end more quickly in a death spiral way, just multiply all panic damage by the number of lost regions.

Orbital bombardment should also generate more global panic (Currently it's just +20 to targeted region) I'd say +15 to every region globally and +40 to target region. This is more in line with terror sites which cause +35 panic if the city is leveled.

I understand many gamers prefer to stretch end game indefinitely and just hang there shooting UFOs down and min-maxing everything. That's fine and all, but catering this small segment of players really waters down the feeling of the end of the world when the humanity is on it's final hour, fighting for existence.

Edited April 27 by Skitso

[skaianDestiny]

Yeah, in the same vein I feel like there should be fuckloads more Battleships in the last phase of the game and introduce a new alien air superiority craft that straight up outclasses any fighters you make.

[Skitso]

24 minutes ago, skaianDestiny said:

Yeah, in the same vein I feel like there should be fuckloads more Battleships in the last phase of the game and introduce a new alien air superiority craft that straight up outclasses any fighters you make.

Yeah, I think after first few UFO tiers (maybe after abductors?), there should always be one UFO flying around that is tier above everything else to show how advanced aliens are compared to humans. You could maybe be able shoot it down, but at what cost?

[gG-Unknown]

For sake of consistency & better reward mechanic

EMP on robots should work the same way as Stun on living.

• do not remove HP directly, but build up a "shadow" damage
• reduce few EMP dmg each turn so robot could walk it off eventually

Consequences : reward for robots can be different. Physically destroyed robot by firearms/explosives gives less resources than EMP overloaded. Reward logic is same with living aliens : more money for captured alien vs corpse.

Edited April 28 by gG-Unknown

[Rakiii]

4 hours ago, gG-Unknown said:

For sake of consistency,

EMP on robots should work the same way as Stun on living.

• do not remove HP directly, but build up a "shadow" damage
• reduce few EMP dmg each turn so robot could walk it off eventually

I think "shock" effect from X-division would be better (Shock effect removes flat amount of AP from aliens there (if they loose hp) and you can even combine it with suppression for stronger effects but thats not the case for robots).

I am not sure about adding new mechanic to the game but it could be just a special effect for EMP damage here eventually.

Edited April 28 by Rakiii

[Skitso]

On 4/27/2025 at 4:04 PM, Skitso said:

Now that we have supporter system and regional bonuses, making the game over rules more dynamic would really improve the game in my opinion. Currently it's just a gamey "lose 2 regions and it's a game over". I would love to see situations where I lose multiple regions and their region bonuses to really make the last months of the game feel like a high stakes race against all odds to the victory in a desperate all or nothing situation.

Chris probably wants the game to end when there's no hope left to cut the game short, but losing 2 regions really doesn't feel like a situation where humanity would surrender in such existential situation. Especially if Xenonauts had a solution and means to end the invasion planned in few weeks time. If we want to force the game end more quickly in a death spiral way, just multiply all panic damage by the number of lost regions.

Orbital bombardment should also generate more global panic (Currently it's just +20 to targeted region) I'd say +15 to every region globally and +40 to target region. This is more in line with terror sites which cause +35 panic if the city is leveled.

I understand many gamers prefer to stretch end game indefinitely and just hang there shooting UFOs down and min-maxing everything. That's fine and all, but catering this small segment of players really waters down the feeling of the end of the world when the humanity is on it's final hour, fighting for existence.

Continuing this idea of making panic rules more dynamic and intresting:

Current region panic level should provide a negative multiplier for supporter bonuses. So for example a region that is on a brink of total collapse, supporters shouldn't act with 100% efficiency. 

Like this: (numbers from my ass)

• Panic 0-40: no negative effect
• Panic 41-55: -10% supporter efficiency
• Panic 56-65: -20% supporter efficiency
• Panic 66-75: -35% supporter efficiency
• Panic 76-85: -50% supporter efficiency
• Panic 86-94: -70% supporter efficiency
• Panic 95-100: Region supporters flee and provide no bonuses

These events could have a small popup text for added flavor.

Also, supporter status (isolated, guarded) should have a more random change cycle. Current 10 day cycle is too predictable.

Edited April 29 by Skitso

[gG-Unknown]

4 hours ago, Skitso said:

Continuing this idea of making panic rules more dynamic and intresting:

Althou it is interesting and logical, I do not support that. Main game is Ground Combat, second game is base management, thirth game is research and production, fourth game is air combat, sixth game is geo-scape.

When ever you improve or rise complexity of any other game than main game, it spread attention and make more difficult to handle.

Current geo-scape game is shallow yes, but it is enough to create feeling of rule global operation company. If some  part of game could handle rising complexity, then ground combat. For example smoke  x gas x fire environment interaction is weak. Interaction with civilians is weak. Interaction with ammo clips and their weight and weapon weight with or without ammo, this is complex system and totally underdeveloped.  and so on and so forth ...

Edited April 29 by gG-Unknown