Milestone 5 STABLE Balance & Feedback

[kyu bey]

2 hours ago, gG-Unknown said:

It looks like you are having a lots of fun. How many Soldiers died on a mission ?

Have you noticed that you can get medal when half off team is dead ?

Why the developers even bother to create such medal ?

What is your game difficulty ?

for that specific mission? i don't remember. did quite a bit after that.
that's a medal of shame. don't need it & don't want it.
if i ever start a new run and these alien goes crazy again.. i will spam that load button instead of wanting that medal!

soldier.

 

this is from the wraiths edition: even my 40% chance to revive hates me.

Edited April 14 by kyu bey

[gG-Unknown]

35 minutes ago, kyu bey said:

this is from the wraiths edition: even my 40% chance to revive hates me.

I see 4 soldiers died and a tank. Tank can not be revived by Medical facility, obviously. Then you get 2 of 4 revived, 50% is more generous than 40%.

What would you expect ?

[ih8california]

2 hours ago, gG-Unknown said:

I see 4 soldiers died and a tank. Tank can not be revived by Medical facility, obviously. Then you get 2 of 4 revived, 50% is more generous than 40%.

What would you expect ?

Where do you see 2/4 revived? 'survived' means they got revived not 'wounded.'

[kyu bey]

6 hours ago, gG-Unknown said:

I see 4 soldiers died and a tank. Tank can not be revived by Medical facility, obviously. Then you get 2 of 4 revived, 50% is more generous than 40%.

What would you expect ?

The 2 people that totally looked like 1 HP? They're alive. Damage roll just refused to go a bit higher. The trio though? Dead for real. Mars is whatever. I'm real close to much more than just 4. Most of the got hit shots & r.i.p are from wraiths.

[skaianDestiny]

Having fought both Eternals and the High Eternal, I feel like they aren't spicy enough to feel like boss enemies. The High Eternal just ended up being a big sack of HP getting popped by my snipers from long range and only accomplishing a single mind control before I killed him the same turn.

Some suggestions:

• Give them a unique weapon. The Alien Fusion Blaster they have is really anemic for a boss-like enemy and doesn't feel dangerous enough. Maybe give them a singularity gun that shoots black holes lol (would be a stupidly high damaging and armor piercing weapon with a 1.5 tile AoE). Alternatively the Graviton Beam Emitter from BLAME!, which would be the same high damage and high armor piercing but shoots like a laser. I never feared getting shot by the Eternal, which is very silly as a concept for what's supposed to be the ultimate enemy.
• Let them shoot from squad sight the same way Cyberdrones are able to. Give them fairly good accuracy to enable that.
• Make them either suppression immune or highly resistant. Right now they can be almost completely shut down by a flashbang/electroshock grenade.
• Let them give buffs to nearby aliens the same way Sectons get buffed by nearby Psyons. Same mechanics and visual effect to simplify things: glowing purple eyes, a big accuracy buff, all buffed aliens getting suppressed when the Eternal is taken down. Make it longer range so it can apply to every alien in the UOO-1 command room or a Battleship bridge room.
• Make it take longer to get the alien homeworld from captured Eternals. Having to capture 2-3 of them to unlock the final mission's research means the player has to fight more of them. As it stands they can just capture the one in the 2nd UOO-1 mission and only end up fighting through a Battleship once.

Edited April 15 by skaianDestiny

[gG-Unknown]

17 hours ago, kyu bey said:

The 2 people that totally looked like 1 HP? They're alive. Damage roll just refused to go a bit higher. The trio though? Dead for real. Mars is whatever. I'm real close to much more than just 4. Most of the got hit shots & r.i.p are from wraiths.

This topic is about game balance.

I didnt see any balancing reasoning in your first post, so I gave you some question, hoping it would help you express your thoughts.

Unfortunately, only balancing/gameplay issue we were able to find is, that thee after battle status Wounded - Survived is unreadable. Both use same red colour and that cursed gray pattern used as background doesnt help either.

Edited April 15 by gG-Unknown

[gG-Unknown]

Special Weapon for Eternals : ( the spicy one )

it is a holy hand grenade. When it lands, it spawns an abduction tube plate. Then the base plate activates and suck in a nearest soldier. Then field force activates. So player has one soldier inside the abduction tube. The tube  can be deactivated by some other Xenonut as usual, but after 3 turns passsed. When deactivated, Soldier can go out unharmed. In fact, tube pause bleeding or other harmful effects.  ( Force field is a weak Stasis field) Each Ethernal has at least two abduction-grenades. If all Xenonuts are dead or in tubes it is a mission fail.

Edited April 15 by gG-Unknown

[skaianDestiny]

Actually yeah we dont have the Singularity Cannon and Singularity Torpedoes from the first game. Feel like we should have them or equivalents as endgame researches or rewards for beating a Battleship. 

[ih8california]

there was concept art for a singularity beam cannon/explosives, but chris confirmed that those are no longer roadmap items

[skaianDestiny]

10 minutes ago, ih8california said:

there was concept art for a singularity beam cannon/explosives, but chris confirmed that those are no longer roadmap items

Do you have a link to that? Also @Chris would it be possible to share unused or scrapped assets like that once the game or mod tools are out so modders could implement it?

[ih8california]

5 minutes ago, skaianDestiny said:

Do you have a link to that? Also @Chris would it be possible to share unused or scrapped assets like that once the game or mod tools are out so modders could implement it?

https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/053/565/123/large/teo-chee-kia-presentation7.jpg?1662505076

Edited April 15 by ih8california

[gG-Unknown]

Sebilians bleed purple blood, change it to green blood. Obviously

[gG-Unknown]

Smoke, grenades and explosives in general, explodes in one level of tiles, instead of 3D volume. I could write to Bug section  but it is rather underdeveloped issue, than real bug.

e.i. smoke should create a sphere of smoke, OR when grenade-flash miss and explode on upper level just one tile  from target, then effect should bee applied. 

 

BTW: I like new solid doors. It was ( and still is) a lot of issues, but certainly worth it.

Edited April 16 by gG-Unknown

[Rakiii]

just to add to my older post (5.24 stable Commander):

I have been playing since beginning of EA and I have to say very early missions are getting harder bcos of a few nerfs you have done recently.

-Damage randomisation changed from 50-200% to 50-150% which means less one shots but also general damage nerf for your soldiers 
- Grenades nerf (damage ones) - damage is done based on proximity now which is more realistic but you cannot one shot cleaners with grenades anymore (you could with interrogation/autopsy projects). Btw I think grenades are a bit too weak bcos of the change now and I would think about small damage buff (at least from 35>40)

    Btw aliens are still very dangerous with their grenades (wraiths) and imo way too accurate ...

- No more interrogation / autopsy project for Cleaners = -10-25%? damage nerf
-Reinforcement move 50% of their TU once spawn there ... and know your last position

 

Although I think these changes are fine in general it had strong effect especially on early missions.

I think the timed missions are the hardest part during first phase and 100% harder than first UFO crash sites (even been harder than first terror mission for me).

I think VIP elimination seems quite fair but abduction (all stages) and data hack should be rebalanced,
I am talking about Commander. I think minus one or two soldiers before reinforcement will hit and + 1 turn would be fair.
these missions should be kind of tutorial and not the hardest part.

Despite I am able to do these missions on commander IM I think early missions should be easier and in line with the rest of the game.

Edited April 17 by Rakiii

[ih8california]

Yes the VIP extraction and cleaner data raid are now the hardest missions before the first terror mission. I'd give VIP extract the nod of being harder because the reinforcements spawn much closer to the extract point. Abduction missions are tough too, but so long as you are only okay with getting 3-5 rescues it isn't that bad, I rarely bother with late-game abductions because you are just asking to lose soldiers/gear.

Additionally, the mission to rescue the 3 soldiers seems to have completely vanished from the rotation.  Would be nice to be guaranteed one of each type of cleaner mission (soldier rescue, VIP extract, data raid, convoy, & VIP elimination) before invasion phase.

@Rakiii the cleaner soldier/agent interrogations are now automatic and grant a lump sum of OP points.

[Rakiii]

11 hours ago, ih8california said:

@Rakiii the cleaner soldier/agent interrogations are now automatic and grant a lump sum of OP points.

I know but does it give any damage bonus against them? I guess not or its not written anywhere.

[Skitso]

13 hours ago, ih8california said:

Additionally, the mission to rescue the 3 soldiers seems to have completely vanished from the rotation.  Would be nice to be guaranteed one of each type of cleaner mission (soldier rescue, VIP extract, data raid, convoy, & VIP elimination) before invasion phase.

I've been asking for this quite a while. Give me more missions so I can (or need to) choose which ones to carry out and in what order.

And this doesn't concern only cleaner missions. Geoscape in general feels mosty too empty and invasion too mellow. I want the game to force me to make choices. Currently the campaign is too linear where the game mostly generates one mission at a time.

Funny thing, the ancient beta years ago had three cleaner VIP missions spawned at the same time, which you needed to complete all to make the HQ appear. While it was very bare bones at that time, it felt great to have the choice how and in what ordee to tackle them.

Edited April 18 by Skitso

[skaianDestiny]

33 minutes ago, Skitso said:

Funny thing, the ancient beta years ago had three cleaner VIP missions spawned at the same time, which you needed to complete all to make the HQ appear. While it was very bare bones at that time, it felt great to have the choice how and in what ordee to tackle them.

I think giving the locations of 2 or 3 Cleaner Bases after a data extraction mission and requiring you to complete all of them before revealing the Clearner HQ would be good.

[gG-Unknown]

4 hours ago, Skitso said:

 I want the game to force me to make choices. Currently the campaign is too linear where the game mostly generates one mission at a time.

It is the consequence of Chris's nightmares regarding campaign lenght and balance.

Following Chris worries AND players wishes (myself included) - here is a Doable Solution to satisfy us all :

Create a mission pool. : Allow Spawn more missions at one time on the geoscape with long window of de-spawn. (like a month) In case player consume one mission type, after few days, the very same mission re spawns somewhere else.  So, the mission pool always offer 2-5 mission. (soldier rescue, VIP extract, data raid, convoy, & VIP elimination)

This mission pool do not reduce UFO activity. Player can choose which mission he want to do, and when. Length of campaign AND player income AND total number of missions remains same as now. Reward of the mission have to bee balanced to so, normalised money income is about the same. ( Convoy = 6 resource packages x 50k ; Soldier_rescue = 3 x ( experienced soldier 40k + a briefcase 60k) ; and so on ) 

Trick is, after the player execute given number o missions (set by game design plan) mission pool is closed. For example, we set limit 5 executed mission from the pool, then  it is possible to do 3 convoys and 2 soldier rescue. Then pool is closed. Closing of the pool moment is communicated to player by an Operation Lady dialogue.

Edited April 18 by gG-Unknown

[kyu bey]

Just a few more random things that probably already mentioned:
Mind shield literally should be mind shield (immune to mind control, also alien shouldn't be able to peek inside my inventory assuming it can. Can buff its range to compensate so it can target my sniper that doesn't use it for example) / be like medkit in secondary (can heal mind control).

Sentinel module itself isn't bad. It's bad because it got unlocked very very late game.

Cyberdrone 3 shots --> 2 shots (the idea is just to minimize 'i blast through walls on your flank --> shoot --> now at least 1 died from full hp).
The kill from this alien negated my soldier's 50% revival chance & also turning his/her weapon+armor into trash. That's a lot of progression lost from just 1 kill.

Can i have things like electroshock sniper rifle // night vision goggle or just ares research moved forward?

Also did you deleted the save trio xeno mission???

Edited April 20 by kyu bey

[gG-Unknown]

Civilians_with_weapons

• AI of Civilians_with_weapons should use a team-view (heatmap) of all civilians AND xenonut soldiers. This would make them look smart, they will avoid obvious (from player perspective) deadly situations. Also AI should consider Xenonut soldier as a teammate, to bunch up, cover each other and so on.
• Also Civilians_with_weapons should be possible to send home,  (the runaway icon on mouseover) they are civilians after all

Player should get some reward for saving any civilians ( with weapon or not ). After Misson report says  :

Local community made a fund rising party for supporting Xenonuts.  Those heroes saved 4 members of our farm/city/factory (depends on map type).  From entry fee to the party and volunteer donations we collected 6 792 Dollars and bottle of whisky/vodka/sake (depends on region). Hurray !

// mechanic : They collect 1k - 10k for each saved body. It is random number for each person in given range. So the result for 4 will be like 6 792 Dollars.

 

Player gets an option to choose, keep civilians with weapons in the battle, to get some help OR send them away to get money.

-------------------------------------------

Simbiont & Mantid

Those tiny sized simbionts are great. This type of opponent was missing. Small (hard to aim) in large numbers and annoying ( I mean annoying in intended good way,).

Release them by direct fire, straight line looks wierd, make them rather release as Grenade luncher weapon type, just replace direct fire mode by ballistic curve. Impact dmg should be bit lower, just a bit.

For some reason, Simbiont can attack twice in a turn  ( I do not like it) and do serious damage (problem). It is not small annoying bug it  is about 43 dmg twice per round. These are not annoying bugs but destroyer of  worlds OMG Lower their dmg by 30% at least.

As race  feature,  Simbionts should bypass armour ( plates on your chest & helmet ), because they viciously bite your leg. Therefore their attacks do not destroy armour, but make massive bleed ( 1 bleed for each 5 HP dmg done, it is more granular than usual 1 bleed for 10 hp)

I think Simbionts should be long range annoying bioweapon which keeps Xenoanuts occupied, not eaten by first hit.

Mantids fight method is insecto-overwhelming. First long range release some symbiont (range 30) when opponent is occupied use pistol (range 15) and shot him. Mantids fighters usually work in pairs so in first salvo they release  4 bugs on opponent, then could go in with pistols. Symbiote luncher can be improved to shoot for 34%TU, so Mantids keep mobility but release no more than two crabs. Mantids would prefer use luncher as long as possible, pistols are fallback option or when opponent is properly covered by crabs.

Sebilians  hunt humies for food (see my other article  for details), contrary Mantids use human dead bodies as base for breeding. When Mantid meet a dead human body (typically civilian) he spend 40% TU to create a hatchery. Dead body is filled by Symbiotic egs. When some other human come closer than 8 tiles, dead body explode into pulp and 6 Symbionts is spawned on spot.

When Mantid properly dies, (not pulp, not unconsious ) there is 50% chance that in 0-3 turns his body release 1-3 Simbionts.

Edited April 21 by gG-Unknown

[skaianDestiny]

Higher ranked Mantids should get a grenade that has little to no actual damage but spawns like 3-4 Symbionts.

[fortydayweekend]

My feedback after finishing the campaign on Milestone 5

Soldier difficulty - about 40 hours (though I leave it running to do other things a lot)

• the general difficulty curve of the invasion

Soldier difficulty was overall easy and I wish I had chosen Veteran, but the difficulty curve felt mostly about right - my 11 dead soldiers were evenly spread out across the campaign. It was maybe slightly too easy after getting Gauss weapons (other than terror missions). 

I used Auto-resolve for air combat and never lost - I prioritised air research but felt this was a bit weird. Maybe needs more RNG so it's possible to 'lose' some air missions every now and then?

It felt weird that the UFOs only came one at a time and I was never overwhelmed by multiple contacts, which used to be fun in earlier iterations.

I never saw a landed UFO, again that felt weird.

The cleaner missions were great variety, only problem was they all came at once for me and then I had only UFOs.. would have been better mixed together a bit more.

• certain missions being too hard

First sebillians in jungle was tough, first wraiths were tough, terror missions when they went up a tier were tough. But nothing was "too hard". There is always the option to bug out (or rebuild a squad)... please don't dumb it down just for people who think they're too good to retreat.

• certain enemies being too tough or too weak

Reapers feel too weak.. either should be faster (or maybe just better pathfinding so they don't spend a turn milling around taking overwatch), or able to take more hits, or give them stealth... I was prioritising shooting mantises and leaving the reapers alone which just felt wrong.

Seems like all enemies have had an overwatch nerf compared to X1 so everything felt less dangerous.. not sure if this is good or bad though, or just because of soldier difficulty.

• certain weapons being overpowered or underpowered

I think the balance is really good. Smoke is OP obviously. I mainly used snipers and shotguns (swapped for machine guns on terror). Didn't feel much of a use case for rifles but I see others love them so maybe depends on your tactics. Shields feel right, tanky but only just worth the cost of having a better gun instead.

 

Squad Sizes / Alien numbers - I think it's perfect as is (would love a couple more civilians though)

Colossus - didn't use it, 2 shields were plenty for drawing fire

Cloaking - I think I like the way it works now - you get one "free" hit and then it gets tougher when they're wounded.. but I don't think it should turn back off again unless they get healed back to full health. 

 

[Skitso]

On 4/21/2025 at 7:38 AM, skaianDestiny said:

Higher ranked Mantids should get a grenade that has little to no actual damage but spawns like 3-4 Symbionts.

Great idea!

[Skitso]

2 hours ago, fortydayweekend said:

• It felt weird that the UFOs only came one at a time and I was never overwhelmed by multiple contacts, which used to be fun in earlier iterations.
• I never saw a landed UFO, again that felt weird.
• The cleaner missions were great variety, only problem was they all came at once for me and then I had only UFOs.. would have been better mixed together a bit more.
• Reapers feel too weak.. either should be faster (or maybe just better pathfinding so they don't spend a turn milling around taking overwatch), or able to take more hits
• Seems like all enemies have had an overwatch nerf compared to X1 so everything felt less dangerous..

Agree 100% on these

Edited April 23 by Skitso