Milestone 5 STABLE Balance & Feedback

[gG-Unknown]

I have noticed that some people started to use totally overloaded soldiers in armoury to create a weaponry stockpile in turn one on a mission.

It is useable, of course, only for timeless missions, like crashed UFO, but 8 spare shields and heaps of grenades cause total unbalance of combat.

Carefully designed Weight management is thrown out of the window.

FIX : Armory allows overload weight unlimited (so player can juggle with equip as he likes). When button "Dropship departure" is pressed, it checks weight overload first. If there is a soldier with more than 7% overload in the squad, the drop ship will not be send. Player gets the info message "Overloaded soldiers are not battle ready.Maximum 7% overload is allowed by our combat training instructors."

Edited April 9 by gG-Unknown

[skaianDestiny]

After playing with it on Veteran, I definitely feel like Colossus needs a buff. Having this massive chunky suit of armor only having as much base armor (40) as upgraded Guardian with heavy armor option feels really bad. I basically get the same performance with Guardian and the exo module while being way more versatile and able to throw grenades. It being upgraded to 70 armor makes it better but still feels kinda piddly especially when alien fusion weapons have 20 armor destruction. If I can't mount modules and throw grenades, then it needs to have way better base stats or perks.

The Xenopedia entry mentions the Colossus is like a walking tank, and it should feel like that. You're basically turning your soldier into a MARS, and as a result it should have similar mechanics.

The suggestions I like best are the better LMG performance (such as a bit less TU to fire), some sort of rocket launcher weapon and heavy shield, and a jetpack option with anit-grav tech research. The better weapon performance and additional weapon options mean that it's similar to the MARS/ARES weapon options of either single target damage or big explosive AoE damage, with the flex option of having a big shield. Instead of the basic modules that soldiers have, I actually suggest having a similar option system to the MARS/ARES where the secondary slot is where you mount the utility options, such as either a special pistol/sidearm for Colossus use (same shooting options as a pistol but the firepower of the equivalent tier rifle) or an accuracy "weapon" or a small smoke launcher with limited shots same as the one on the MARS/ARES.

In addition, I'd suggest buffing the base armor to 50, with the upgraded one being 80. Your soldiers have much less health than the MARS/ARES, meaning they'd need higher armor to be competitive in terms of survivability. It feels really bad when you get this super heavy-looking armor and then they die in one shot to a basic enemy with a fusion rifle.

This may seem quite powerful at first glance, but I don't think it would feel out of place given you're giving up a ton of other stuff such as modules and grenades while also introducing an additional cost in upgrading the equivalent equipment. Not to mention soldiers are still pretty squishy against fusion weapons even with the upgraded armor. If it still feels too much then reducing the vision range by 2 more tiles and reflexes by an additional 20 (for a max reduction of -5 vision range and -40 reflexes) would enhance the "walking tank" feeling.

[gG-Unknown]

Recent change of Heavy armour, accuracy penalty was good, it make player think a bit.

However, it is not enough. After few deaths, I found out that light armour is one shot story (veteran difficulty), therefore player could afford 1 or 2 at max in light armour sitting in back line, AND progress to mission target need more turns.

Light armour do not offer good enough advantage to risk it. Therefore, heavy is still the only option.

I am begging for reverse grenade range nerf since it was introduced, so here is  an idea:

- reverse grenade range nerf. Grenade range is plus two tiles.

- heavy armour is bulky so it doesn’t allow swift moves : Heavy armour gives -2 grenade ( all throwables) range reduction

 

This change creates a new nice "Grenadier class" in light armour. He lives in back line, but still useful. Throwing nades far ahead. Somewhat smaller version of Grenade luncher.

Edited April 10 by gG-Unknown

[skaianDestiny]

Regarding the current state and mechanics of air combat, I have to say I actually enjoyed it! It's a fun little minigame to play and I enjoyed expressing myself tactically in ways such as having one interceptor draw a Cruiser's attention while the other gets into the tail deadzone and shreds it with the guns. While I'm personally up for more complexity WRT the air combat I understand other players wouldn't be up for it, so I think the current iteration is fine enough.

I kinda do miss how in Xenonauts 1 the initial positions of the aircraft were based on the direction your interceptors intercepted the UFO.

I would also like an option for an interceptor to function as a troop transport as well, at the very least functionality and support for it for modding even if it's not within the scope of the base game.

I also want to say that late game the air war drops off in intensity on Veteran where it should be increasing. I feel like more UFOs should spawn per wave and more waves spawn in faster intervals. Even with Battleships coming in (occasionally), it became almost leisurely, which doesn't feel like the intended mood of an existential war for two civilizations.

[delor]

  The idea of making the LMG more mobile (lower TU to fire) on the colossus is an intriguing one.

  I also think the LMG in general just needs some love.  Despite being a heavy support weapon, it's got the same damage, penetration, armor destruction and range as the standard rifle- it just weighs a ton and takes a lot of TU to aim.  The extra ammo capacity matters little, it doesn't reliably suppress stuff, and the automatic fire is a dubious tradeoff for all the extra TU to fire in most circumstances.  The role is very niche.

  Personally, I'd love to see the HMG positioned between the sniper rifle and the rifle in terms of capability to give it more of a distinct place in the weapon selection.  Leave the damage as-is (rifle damage) but up the armor penetration and destruction to sniper levels, and split the difference on range, accuracy, and hit bonus.  (range up to 25, accuracy up to 60%, hit bonus down to 1%)  Tweak accuracy up or down from there as needed until it's balanced.

Edited April 12 by delor
Clarify what "more mobile" meant.

[Skitso]

Does anyone use fuel tank for their interceptors? Seems like it's pretty useless in the way things are currently balanced.

Does anyone use the "patrol local area" command for their interceptors? I use it only to dodge night missions with my Skyranger.

Speaking of night missions, they are way too easy to avoid. Make some missons mandatory to do at night time for some hand waved lore reason and shorten the time window crash sites are available. We need more landed UFOs it it could always happen at night?

• Some cleaner missions could have reduced restistance at night time?
• Terror missions could always happen at night?
• Abductions could always happen at night?
• Reduce crash site time window from 32 hours to 12 hours

 

Edited April 12 by Skitso

[Skitso]

Keeping doomsday levels low is way too easy.

• Eliminating infiltrators should cost more OP. It's too easy to get rid of them. After capturing the general I can kill half of the infiltators before day 10, which makes doomsday lose most of it's momentum (+3) right at the start.
• Using 100OP's to recuce tension, I can easily cut doomsday levels by 35% as soon as day 19. (Reduced to 0)
• Shooting down probes lower doomsday by 5% each. Shooting down 2 means I can skip/fail one cleaner mission altogether (10% penalty is way too low)
• Adbuction mission rewards are also very good. Two abduction mission where I rescue 8 civilians each have a combined effect of - 36% doomday. At the time of second abduction I had just one infiltrator standing, so doomday needs more than a month to catch just that that up
• Passive daily OP gain is too high at least on veteran/commander.

Proposed changes:

1. Eliminate infiltrator cost: 150OP -> 200OP
2. Reduce tension daily reward increase 0.25 -> 0.1
3. Mission penalties: -10% -> -25%
4. Abduction mission rewards: -3/+3 > -1/+3
5. Reduce daily OP gain on higher difficulties by 1-2

 

Edited April 12 by Skitso

[gG-Unknown]

12 hours ago, delor said:

  The idea of making the LMG more mobile (lower TU to fire) 

  The extra ammo capacity matters little, it doesn't reliably suppress stuff, and the automatic fire is a dubious tradeoff for all the extra TU to fire in most circumstances.  The role is very niche.

Lower TU means, that Colossus can walk more. That is contra productive. Colossus is large, bulky and clumsy. Make an "improvement" where colossus is best runner in a team, has no sense.

LMG is about extra ammo and yes his role is niche. Base weapon is (most used should be)  the rifle.

Despite you think that LMG need buff, players who are on Commander difficulty appreciate LMG as it is now, for the highest dmg burst in game.

If  something need to be changed about LMG, then ammo clip is too light, it is only 8 for 50 bulets. While sniper is 4 for 5 bullets. It clearly wrong. LMG ammo clip should weight at least 10 perhaps 12

Edited April 12 by gG-Unknown

[gG-Unknown]

12 hours ago, Skitso said:

Does anyone use

My coments in //  Itallic Yellow

Does anyone use fuel tank for their interceptors? // no, Idont. Seems like it's pretty useless in the way things are currently balanced. // yees

Does anyone use the "patrol local area" command for their interceptors? // no. In old "UFO-Enemy Unknown"" it was important part of gameplay, but now it doesnt work. Perhaps those useless extra tank is a clue to the solution ? I use it only to dodge night missions with my Skyranger. // I never use it ever.

Speaking of night missions, they are way too easy to avoid. // I would say other wise, player do not get a reason why to prefer night.  Perhaps some alien races has poor night vision ? Make some missons mandatory to do at night time for some hand waved lore reason and shorten the time window crash sites are available. We need more landed UFOs // YES ! it it could always happen at night? // nice idea. It is a quickie, you have react before sunrise. AND there is a natural reward for higher risk. More aliens lurk in  the dark but  UFO is intact >> more salvage. Perhaps some current research can be even  locked behind "salvage fragile device which is intact only on landed UFO". I like this "night landing idea"  a lot.

• Some cleaner missions could have reduced restistance at night time? // time spend id not worth to balance it. Cleaner mission are usually turn locked. Player should get a chance to make it in daylight, and they should be balanced for daylight.
• Terror missions could always happen at night? // I would rather set shorter timer for these misions. So it is not stone set, but  shorter window to send team, therefore higher chance it happens at night.
• Abductions could always happen at night? // abduction is turn limited. At night you spend serious portion of TU by creating light. That is not  good idea. Very difficult to balance difficulty.
• Reduce crash site time window from 32 hours to 12 hours // no. Night mission should be occasional. Definitely not 1:1 to day missions. Player have to see the game usually. Night missions offer mostly dark screen.

Edited April 12 by gG-Unknown

[gG-Unknown]

8 hours ago, Skitso said:

Keeping doomsday levels low is way too easy.
 

 

My comments in // Yellow Italic

Proposed changes:

1. Eliminate infiltrator cost: 150OP -> 200OP // problem is infiltrators are static, there should bee rather dynamic added. Infiltrators should reappear rather then crank up cost. Then frequency of re-appearing makes the higher difficulty game setting.
2. Reduce tension daily reward increase 0.25 -> 0.1 // no. I would prefer other aprooach. Rise up bonus to 0,3 The bonus  is motivation to player wait for the last second. Balance on the edge. That is the purpose off this, so make it clear.

[Danild]

I would just like to "echo" a few things that others have pointed out:

Mind Control:
I like the mechanic of having mind control in the game, but in the current form I think it is just frustrating and "unfun", simply because you don't have a proper counter to it.
Mind Control should at least require Line of Sight, so that you don't get mind controlled from some hidden alien across the map, so that you actually have a chance to eliminate the alien to free the mind control. You might have to hurry some soldiers along and put them in a risky position in order to take out the mind controlling alien, but at least you have a chance.

Colossus Armor:
It is fun/neat that you can walk through terrain, and maybe useful on low strength soldiers, but aside from that it feels a bit pointless.
(Sidenote: it can walk through solid brick-walls, but not a simple hedge, so perhaps some of the destructibles should be reviewed).
Perhaps add some Collosus only-equipment.
The idea that was already pointed out, to give it a "turtle-shell" on the back, sounded like a fun concept, because you would basically have to choose between reaction fire and defense when using them for pushing ahead. It would add another strategic layer for it.
 

TLDR: Mind Control should at least require "line of sight". Colossus needs something fun/interesting, perhaps the turtle shell that was previously suggested.

[ih8california]

"Panic Reduction"

In regards to "reduce panic/doomsday" I think it should be a daily effect instead of lump sum reduction. That is instead of instantly reducing painc/dd by x amount, make it add a modifier that reduces it over several days.

For example, instead of an instant, -50 reduction, make it apply a -10 modifier for 5 days (or something to that effect depending on usage) that shows people are working behind the scene with govts to reduce dd/painc instead of people instantly going from wanting ww3 being threat at all. So maybe not using for a while will mean more days of net panic/dd reduction while using it more often will mean fewer days (maybe scaling from 1 day to 5 or whatever).

-----

"Night missions"

I'd actually be okay with forced night missions IF (and only IF) there were counters to it (e.g. NVGs, upgraded flares that counter alien night vision bonuses, etc) or certain alien races having worse night vision (to give player options or a reason to do night missions).

------

"OP points"

Again, i'd be okay with a nerf to daily OP point gain IF there are more ways to generate OP points besides waiting. This goes into my suggestion on discord that occasionally funding nations give you objectives to complete such as: outright recruit a supporter/neutralize an infiltrator, lump sum of OP, or give bonus to recruiting a supporter/neutralize an infiltrator

-----

"Overloading troops"

I don't get the hate against this. If I want to do this then have to burn 1-2 turns I should be allowed to do so. Especially since it is something you can't realistically do on timed missions.

[skaianDestiny]

2 hours ago, ih8california said:

"Night missions"

I'd actually be okay with forced night missions IF (and only IF) there were counters to it (e.g. NVGs, upgraded flares that counter alien night vision bonuses, etc) or certain alien races having worse night vision (to give player options or a reason to do night missions).

This would be good, yeah. You could have Sectons and Psyons having very poor night vision while Sebilians have extremely good night vision. So you'd actually want to do ambushes against Pysons and Sectons at night while Sebilians you want to have more even fights during the day.

NVGs are also a really good module idea, IMO. Since Xeno2 is set during the modern day it makes more sense than having a ton of flares to throw around. Giving it a module and weight makes it a tradeoff as well.

[Skitso]

3 hours ago, ih8california said:

"Panic Reduction"

In regards to "reduce panic/doomsday" I think it should be a daily effect instead of lump sum reduction. That is instead of instantly reducing painc/dd by x amount, make it add a modifier that reduces it over several days.

For example, instead of an instant, -50 reduction, make it apply a -10 modifier for 5 days (or something to that effect depending on usage) that shows people are working behind the scene with govts to reduce dd/painc instead of people instantly going from wanting ww3 being threat at all. So maybe not using for a while will mean more days of net panic/dd reduction while using it more often will mean fewer days (maybe scaling from 1 day to 5 or whatever).

-----

"Night missions"

I'd actually be okay with forced night missions IF (and only IF) there were counters to it (e.g. NVGs, upgraded flares that counter alien night vision bonuses, etc) or certain alien races having worse night vision (to give player options or a reason to do night missions).

------

"OP points"

Again, i'd be okay with a nerf to daily OP point gain IF there are more ways to generate OP points besides waiting. This goes into my suggestion on discord that occasionally funding nations give you objectives to complete such as: outright recruit a supporter/neutralize an infiltrator, lump sum of OP, or give bonus to recruiting a supporter/neutralize an infiltrator

-----

"Overloading troops"

I don't get the hate against this. If I want to do this then have to burn 1-2 turns I should be allowed to do so. Especially since it is something you can't realistically do on timed missions.

Lots of good ideas here. I especially like the panic reduction being a longer lasting daily modifier instead of an instant effect.

[skaianDestiny]

Once you research Advanced Alien Alloys, the Stalker armor should get a manufacturing project to improve its armor capabilities especially given Advance Alien Alloys specifically mentions it can be used as fabric covering with 70% of the effectiveness of a plate of alien alloys. Given Stalker armor was initially a skintight kevlar suit, replacing the outdated kevlar with fabric-like advanced alien alloys makes the most sense, and numbers-wise Increasing its protection from 9/18 to 16/32 would be fair, keeping it weaker than upgraded Guardian armor but still being fairly protective to keep up with increasing threats.

[Cubey]

Mid to late game spoilers:

It's very frustrating that, unless you know exactly what to expect and prepare for it in advance, you won't be able to stop UOO-1 from firing at least one more time. The window between UOO-1 analysis being complete (allowing you to research a project that unlocks the bridge assault) and another shot fired is simply too short, even if you perform really well on the sabotage mission.

Speaking of the sabotage mission, I was only able to score 27/35 days of delay. I lost 5 days because only two power rings spawned, while it's meant to spawn three. I lost the other 3 days because alien heavy units walked through three computer consoles before I could even access them, destroying them and making them impossible to hack. Both of these are inexcusable and punish the player for something they have no control over.

My suggestion: in addition to fixing the bugs above (maybe make the consoles indestructible, or make them count as hacked if destroyed), give us an option to delay the firing even further than the one-off sabotage mission. Maybe spend operation points to buy a few extra days?

Edited April 13 by Cubey

[gG-Unknown]

10 hours ago, ih8california said:

"Panic Reduction"

In regards to "reduce panic/doomsday" I think it should be a daily effect instead of lump sum reduction. That is instead of instantly reducing painc/dd by x amount, make it add a modifier that reduces it over several days.

I like simple things witch snap into each other. Panic Reduction has a cooldown usage,so make it so, the effect is spread to the span of the cooldown. It would make obvious, that you can not activate it again, while it is working.

Edited April 13 by gG-Unknown

[ih8california]

8 hours ago, skaianDestiny said:

Once you research Advanced Alien Alloys, the Stalker armor should get a manufacturing project to improve its armor capabilities especially given Advance Alien Alloys specifically mentions it can be used as fabric covering with 70% of the effectiveness of a plate of alien alloys. Given Stalker armor was initially a skintight kevlar suit, replacing the outdated kevlar with fabric-like advanced alien alloys makes the most sense, and numbers-wise Increasing its protection from 9/18 to 16/32 would be fair, keeping it weaker than upgraded Guardian armor but still being fairly protective to keep up with increasing threats.

Agreed, Stalker Armor is such a cool concept, but don't want to use it because it is worthless once aliens get fusion weapons. Other suggestion is to keep armor values as-is, but greatly buff the 'invisibility' effect until the wearer shoots then there is a 1-turn cool down where the invisibility effect is disabled.

2 hours ago, gG-Unknown said:

I like simple things witch snap into each other. Panic Reduction has a cooldown usage,so make it so, the effect is spread to the span of the cooldown. It would make obvious, that you can not activate it again, while it is working.

Yeah this is a good idea too, I think the cool-down is currently 10 days??, so depending on usage it would be a scaling -2 to -5 per day daily reduction. 

6 hours ago, Cubey said:

Mid to late game spoilers:

It's very frustrating that, unless you know exactly what to expect and prepare for it in advance, you won't be able to stop UOO-1 from firing at least one more time. The window between UOO-1 analysis being complete (allowing you to research a project that unlocks the bridge assault) and another shot fired is simply too short, even if you perform really well on the sabotage mission.

Speaking of the sabotage mission, I was only able to score 27/35 days of delay. I lost 5 days because only two power rings spawned, while it's meant to spawn three. I lost the other 3 days because alien heavy units walked through three computer consoles before I could even access them, destroying them and making them impossible to hack. Both of these are inexcusable and punish the player for something they have no control over.

My suggestion: in addition to fixing the bugs above (maybe make the consoles indestructible, or make them count as hacked if destroyed), give us an option to delay the firing even further than the one-off sabotage mission. Maybe spend operation points to buy a few extra days?

I really wish there was an image in the loading screen or visual pan at the start of the mission to show what a power ring was, because I still have no idea. My last play through I destroyed what I thought were power rings but still only got the bonus for hacking 11 consoles. 

[kyu bey]

Played until 209 days, this is just the unfun part mentioned:
Wraiths at terror (18 total enemies in soldier difficulty)
A purple clothes alien suddenly appear from the darkness and be like 'your xenonaut? our xenonaut! yoink!'.
And iirc this alien isn't listed in the game's library (probably treated like those scientist, pilot, etc variant of the base).. so i have 0 idea how that works & how to counter it (including the mob that shoot a mini alien & the one that toss poison grenade)
^if it exist in the game's library (a.k.a me being blind), i'm sorry.
 

I honestly want my +25hp automed back after facing all of those wraiths at once.

Also, is the laser inf ammo & upgrade damage gone? or i just haven't unlocked it?

The easiest part is still air combat.. which is good.

100% neutral on the new supporter thing.

[ih8california]

laser damage & auto reload (not infinite ammo, still need requisite ammo packs) are locked behind tech/one-time engineering projects.

Yes, I think a common suggestion is to get xenopedia entries on the various alien variants including base versions.

Edited April 13 by ih8california

[skaianDestiny]

3 hours ago, ih8california said:

(not infinite ammo, still need requisite ammo packs)

It is infinite ammo, it just recharges slowly. I often run lasers without any spare magazines after the upgrade as a result.

[kyu bey]

Played more and it's still on terror mission.. again.

ultimate blue eyes cyberdrone coming from flank (a.k.a darkness area): triple shoot to death. also bye to your equips (no idea why it only killed 1)

and playing hide & seek against that 1 mob somewhere far way (can't even yolo run burn max tu because my xenos aren't superman).

before cyberdrone is something to fear level.. now it's either take the (mostly) insta kill / press load button because i can't cover all angle.

after tasting multiple suffering from wraiths (bad luck dodging, grenade & lots of them), mind control (mostly because no info)
& cyberdrone (there's nothing fun from getting insta killed from your flank).. not sure if i want another run. Currently feels like playing xcom 2 war of the chosen, but without the op equips & new classes.
the alien that shoot mini alien & toss poison grenade are still on my okay list (the poison technically isn't since automed only +5hp, but whatever).

[skaianDestiny]

I think the Cyberdrone should have the triple shot take up like 95% TUs to fire, with a new firing option that shoots a single shot that takes less TUs. They're definitely scary, but right now the way they can both move and shoot a triple burst feels too oppressive.

[gG-Unknown]

4 hours ago, kyu bey said:

cyberdrone: triple shoot to death. also bye to your equips (no idea why it only killed 1)

after tasting multiple suffering from wraiths, the alien that shoot mini alien & toss poison grenade

It looks like you are having a lots of fun. How many Soldiers died on a mission ?

Have you noticed that you can get medal when half off team is dead ?

Why the developers even bother to create such medal ?

What is your game difficulty ?

Edited April 14 by gG-Unknown

[skaianDestiny]

14 minutes ago, gG-Unknown said:

Why the developers even bother to create such medal ?

As a consolation prize if you have a particularly bad mission. Not hard to figure out.