Milestone 5 STABLE Balance & Feedback

[Chris]

Hello everyone - with Milestone 5 Stable now officially released, we're planning to do a balance pass on the game in the next few weeks. This thread is the best place to provide feedback on the current game balance and the various changes made in Milestone 5.

We've be really interested to hear what parts of the game feel well-balanced to you, and which parts of the game feel frustrating or too easy / hard. This could be on any topic, such as:

• the general difficulty curve of the invasion
• certain missions being too hard
• certain enemies being too tough or too weak
• certain weapons being overpowered or underpowered

However, this isn't the thread for suggesting new features or game mechanics - if you've got ideas for that, please just post them in a separate thread!

 

Developer Feedback Request:
As well as being interested in what people think can be improved in the current balance of Milestone 5, there's a few specific questions we're gathering community feedback on. If you've got any opinions on these questions, please do let us know what you think!

1) Squad Sizes:
At the moment the three dropship types can carry 9 / 12 / 16 soldiers respectively. A number of users have mentioned that they feel like this is too many soldiers, and it can make missions feel too long and tedious - there's simply too many soldiers to order around.

We're considering switching the dropships to carry 8 / 10 / 12 soldiers, and then permitting 16 soldiers on the final mission. If we did this, we would also rebalance the tactical missions to have fewer aliens, so the difficulty would remain roughly the same - it's just a question of whether people would prefer smaller teams or not. What do you think?

2) Colossus Armour 
One of the recurring themes in player feedback threads is that Colossus Armour is not very good, and we're planning to address this in the next major update. We haven't decided exactly how we'll do this yet, so it'd be good to get people's thoughts on some of these potential changes:

• Make the LMG more effective when used by the Colossus - likely via reducing the TU cost to fire it, so it can be used more like an assault rifle?
• Adding some additional weapon options for the Colossus:
  • A powerful melee weapon?
  • A super-heavy combat shield?
  • A rocket launcher?
• Allowing the Colossus to use modules like other armours are able to?
• Allowing it to carry items in its backpack that the Colossus itself cannot use, so its 100 STR can be used to resupply other soldiers?
• Adding a jetpack unit once Antigravity Array has been researched?

Giving it all of these abilities at once might be too strong, so which of these are you most interested in? Do you have other suggestions of your own?

3) Wraith Cloaking Field:
Before Milestone 5 the alien Wraiths started with Cloaking Field active (reducing your chance to hit against them), but it would be deactivated as soon as they took damage. They now start with Cloaking Field disabled, but it switches state each time the unit takes damage (first becoming active, then inactive, then active again, etc).

We want to gather opinions on whether people like this change or not. However, it's worth mentioning that this change isn't purely about the ability itself - we've added new models for the Wraiths in Milestone 5, and when Cloaking Field is active it's hard to see what rank the Wraith is or what weapon it is carrying. This can be a frustrating way to lose soldiers.

Slight spoiler risk here for people who haven't finished the game: Eternals also have the Cloaking Field ability (as well as the Regeneration ability from Sebillians and the Mesmerise ability from Psyons). This is another major reason why we've switched the way Cloaking Field works - it really is important to be able to tell Eternals apart from Wraiths at a glance, and it's quite anticlimactic for your first look at the Eternal / High Eternal to occur when they have cloaking field active.

The three available options for Wraith / Eternal cloaking are:

• Activates at start of turn, becomes disabled for rest of turn on damage
• Starts disabled, becomes active for rest of turn on damage
• Starts disabled, switches state on damage

What do you prefer? Ideally the Eternal cloaking field would work the same as the Wraith version for consistency reasons, but that doesn't have to be true.

[Skitso]

Difficulty:

• Many cleaner missions are tougher than the first few UFO crash site missions. (Aliens don't feel scary enough compared to the cleaners at the beginning of the game)
• Cleaner intel gather missions are too easy to gain huge amount of intel.
• Cleaner HQ too easy (especially the command room)
• First Terror mission is too tough
• Sebillians feel the easiest race to fight against. I would make them a bit harder to kill and suppress. High level sebillians should be proper bullet sponges.
• Sebillian gas grenades are a joke. It's too easy to just have everyone wear gas masks. Make gas mask have more penalty (TU, ACC, vision) and make gas grenade melt away armour or something to make it hurt even if you have gas masks on.
• Mantids with symbiote weapons are too easy to deal with. Make them spew more symbiotes around or make symbiotes a form of grenade in addition to a proper gun.
• Reapers are too easy to deal with - at least in more open terror maps. Needs better AI and specs to feel more scary.
• Geoscape feels too easy. Air superiority is too easy to maintain at least until abductors. Aliens should protect their more important crafts with air superiority fighters. Waves need to have more UFOs to overwhelm me and make me choose what to shoot down.
• Teleports make raiding command rooms way too easy. Make using them cost 33% of TU.

Squad sizes:

• I would prefer smaller squad sizes, but as you said, it will need a huge rebalancing of the game. I would also make crash site maps smaller (especially the later ones)

Colossus armor:

• I haven't played so far into game yet, but rocket launcher sounds badass enough.

Wraith cloaking field:

• Starts disabled, becomes active on damage for the rest of the turn. Become completely invisible on the next turn. Unable to shoot  while invisible and uses all TU moving to a new location. Buff the cloak effect significantly.

Edit: I've played veteran ironman difficulty.

Edited March 31 by Skitso

[ih8california]

Here are my thoughts (plus an additional one not mentioned), from playing on Commander difficulty on the experimental branch:

Colossus Armor (priority of fixes, 1 being most want down to least wanted, only feel real strongly about 1-3, and but honestly even if implement all changes, as long as you gate some of the upgrades/abilities behind tech or the colossus upgrade I'm not too worried about being OP, I mean it is a late-game armor so honestly it should be a bit on the stronger side):

1. More effective LMG
2. Modules (or at a minimum integrated healing)
3. Additional weapons
4. Carry other items
5. Jetpack

Wraith:

• As-is system (disabled, switches state) is fine IMO
• If you went to either 'activates at start of turn' or 'becomes active for the rest of the turn,' I think there needs to be a corresponding nerf, such as increased TU cost for all actions while cloaked, once damaged it is disabled for the rest of the mission, or limiting the number of wraiths that can spawn on a given map (Certain maps with big open areas and swarms of wraiths, were nightmares).

Squad Sizes:

• I'm kind of ambivalent on this, as the time I actually get the pegasus dropship on commander is very late and honestly when you are getting spawns of 34-38 aliens on a map, you NEED that many (16) soldiers, so if the number of aliens is toned down to compensate I don't really care.

-----

Okay now for things that weren't mentioned:

Cyberdrones:

• Please nerf. I love the design change from its initial concept (essentially being a beefed up mentrarch), but the 3 shot is oppressive especially considering that it can reposition prior to doing so.
• Thoughts:
  • 3 shots takes 100% TU, which I think is fair considering it can shoot from beyond normal line-of-sight.
  • Otherwise, I can only have 1 shot.
  • If not this, I think the emp grenade needs to cause 1-turn shutdown on robotic units

Servitors:

• This is another alien unit that I think needs a rework. Given its lore entry its offensive prowess is insane.
• Thoughts:
  • Healing friendly aliens costs TUs.
  • Buff its healing capability by giving it an ability that allows it to add armor or heal on its turn (not as a reaction)
  • Nerf offensive capabilities, remove its beams and perhaps give it some sort of static discharge ability (essentially a suppression grenade)
  • See above comment about emp shutdown if no changes are made

Mind Shield module:

• This needs a buff, as its benefits (considering its inventory size and weight) do not offer much benefit/protection
• Thoughts:
  • Keep as-is, but reduce its inventory size
  • Keep size as-is, but buff to completely prevent mind-control

Mind-control in general:

• IMO, its a bit too strong in its current form, considering units can mind control from the other side of the map which seems OP
• Require mind control to have visual to the target
• There needs to be some sort of counter-play to free a mind controlled unit beyond yoloing to kill the alien that did the mind control (goes into comment about mind control from other side of the map)
• Clarity on exactly which alien unit is controlling your soldier

UOO1&2:

• The missions themselves are an amazing addition and I love them. having said that providing the player images of the objects (perhaps on the loading screen or mission briefing) to give them an idea of what to look for

Air War (not air combat):

• I would appreciate the occasional mid to late-game (p3 & p4) waves  (e.g. 3-4 ufos at a time), as the most I have seen recently is 2 ufos at a time which makes the geoscape a bit boring between missions

[gG-Unknown]

Colossus Armor

Top idea : keep Colossus clumsy and limited to mg, but add  some spice on top in a good way

- soldier gets Experience points into levelling TU by walking  with more than 80% carry capacity. Soldier in Colossus armour should get a chance to do that by carrying something useful. Backpack filled by mg ammo to reach carry capacity is silly.

a] allow modules : all of them, I have never used The Brave module so at least this would be something new. AutoMed module is very logical, soldier is literally sealed in the armour so field medic could not even touch him. Workshop with special tools is required to get soldier in/out the armour. For Lore reason,  DISABLE healing Colossus by standard MedKit. Edit Colossus description UFO-paedia accordingly. In general, Modules are heavy so it fills up the need to carry something meaningful

b] allow carry shield in backpack: shields are heavy as hell, and they tend to get destroyed. Ability to provide a spare shield for a friend is nice gameplay

c] turtle ninja : this option is based on previous. It is totally cool, hilarious and authentic at the same time !

- Colossus carry shield on his back, it is visually animated. It looks like turtle ninja. All attacks from backs (180 degree back ) are covered by the shield, e. i. shield is consumed as usual. Colossus can be used as a brick in breaches, door opening and so on.  He turns his back to a danger zone, and holds it. It offers an unusual situations and fun gameplay ! And of course he could pass the shield to a friend too.

 

Adding all three a] b] c] options at once would be ok. Fun gameplay offering unusual options, but not too strong in general. Certainly make team full of Colossus would not create an unbalanced advantage.

BTW : There is an archetype in the past. In middle ages, Crossbow warrior with pavise (a type of large shield) on his back. He shoot his crossbow, then turn back to danger and crouch, in this position he reload crossbow, stand up turn front to danger and shoot.

 

another pictures of crossbowman with a shield on his back

https://se.pinterest.com/pin/370421138093551622/

https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/375909900117601743/

 

I will comment other areas later.

 

Edited March 31 by gG-Unknown

[Spqr]

26 minutes ago, Skitso said:

Difficulty:

• Many cleaner missions are tougher than the first few UFO crash site missions. (Aliens don't feel scary enough compared to the cleaners at the beginning of the game)
• Cleaner intel gather missions are too easy to gain huge amount of intel.
• Cleaner HQ too easy (especially the command room)
• First Terror mission is too tough
• Sebillians feel the easiest race to fight against. I would make them a bit harder to kill and suppress. High level sebillians should be proper bullet sponges.
• Sebillian gas grenades are a joke. It's too easy to just have everyone wear gas masks. Make gas mask have more penalty (TU, ACC, vision) and make gas grenade melt away armour or something to make it hurt even if you have gas masks on.
• Mantids with symbiote weapons are too easy to deal with. Make them spew more symbiotes around or make symbiotes a form of grenade in addition to a proper gun.
• Reapers are too easy to deal with - at least in more open terror maps. Needs better AI and specs to feel more scary.
• Geoscape feels too easy. Air superiority is too easy to maintain at least until abductors. Aliens should protect their more important crafts with air superiority fighters. Waves need to have more UFOs to overwhelm me and make me choose what to shoot down.
• Teleports make raiding command rooms way too easy. Make using them cost 33% of TU.

Squad sizes:

• I would prefer smaller squad sizes, but as you said, it will need a huge rebalancing of the game. I would also make crash site maps smaller (especially the later ones)

Colossus armor:

• I haven't played so far into game yet, but rocket launcher sounds badass enough.

Wraith cloaking field:

• Starts disabled, becomes active on damage for the rest of the turn. Become completely invisible on the next turn. Unable to shoot  while invisible and uses all TU moving to a new location. Buff the cloak effect significantly.

May i ask which campaign difficulty those remarks were made for?

[Skitso]

19 minutes ago, ih8california said:

Here are my thoughts (plus an additional one not mentioned), from playing on Commander difficulty on the experimental branch:

Colossus Armor (priority of fixes, 1 being most want down to least wanted, only feel real strongly about 1-3, and but honestly even if implement all changes, as long as you gate some of the upgrades/abilities behind tech or the colossus upgrade I'm not too worried about being OP, I mean it is a late-game armor so honestly it should be a bit on the stronger side):

1. More effective LMG
2. Modules (or at a minimum integrated healing)
3. Additional weapons
4. Carry other items
5. Jetpack

Wraith:

• As-is system (disabled, switches state) is fine IMO
• If you went to either 'activates at start of turn' or 'becomes active for the rest of the turn,' I think there needs to be a corresponding nerf, such as increased TU cost for all actions while cloaked, once damaged it is disabled for the rest of the mission, or limiting the number of wraiths that can spawn on a given map (Certain maps with big open areas and swarms of wraiths, were nightmares).

Squad Sizes:

• I'm kind of ambivalent on this, as the time I actually get the pegasus dropship on commander is very late and honestly when you are getting spawns of 34-38 aliens on a map, you NEED that many (16) soldiers, so if the number of aliens is toned down to compensate I don't really care.

-----

Okay now for things that weren't mentioned:

Cyberdrones:

• Please nerf. I love the design change from its initial concept (essentially being a beefed up mentrarch), but the 3 shot is oppressive especially considering that it can reposition prior to doing so.
• Thoughts:
  • 3 shots takes 100% TU, which I think is fair considering it can shoot from beyond normal line-of-sight.
  • Otherwise, I can only have 1 shot.
  • If not this, I think the emp grenade needs to cause 1-turn shutdown on robotic units

Servitors:

• This is another alien unit that I think needs a rework. Given its lore entry its offensive prowess is insane.
• Thoughts:
  • Healing friendly aliens costs TUs.
  • Buff its healing capability by giving it an ability that allows it to add armor or heal on its turn (not as a reaction)
  • Nerf offensive capabilities, remove its beams and perhaps give it some sort of static discharge ability (essentially a suppression grenade)
  • See above comment about emp shutdown if no changes are made

Mind Shield module:

• This needs a buff, as its benefits (considering its inventory size and weight) do not offer much benefit/protection
• Thoughts:
  • Keep as-is, but reduce its inventory size
  • Keep size as-is, but buff to completely prevent mind-control

Mind-control in general:

• IMO, its a bit too strong in its current form, considering units can mind control from the other side of the map which seems OP
• Require mind control to have visual to the target
• There needs to be some sort of counter-play to free a mind controlled unit beyond yoloing to kill the alien that did the mind control (goes into comment about mind control from other side of the map)
• Clarity on exactly which alien unit is controlling your soldier

UOO1&2:

• The missions themselves are an amazing addition and I love them. having said that providing the player images of the objects (perhaps on the loading screen or mission briefing) to give them an idea of what to look for

Air War (not air combat):

• I would appreciate the occasional mid to late-game (p3 & p4) waves  (e.g. 3-4 ufos at a time), as the most I have seen recently is 2 ufos at a time which makes the geoscape a bit boring between missions

• Agree on air war
• Mind shield module suffers from similar issues as gas masks, as in being a completely passive item with no gameplay involved. I would change it to a first aid kit styled item that could be actively used to break already established mind control link.
• You seem to want a lot of nerfs in a lot of systems and enemy units yet it seems you've played in the absolute hardest difficulty setting. It's meant to be punishing...
• Giving colossus the ability to use modules and additional weapons and carry items make it just too similar to all other armours. Giving it a rocket launcher which people have waited for the whole game would feel amazing and unique.

[Skitso]

5 minutes ago, Spqr said:

May i ask which campaign difficulty those remarks were made for?

Ah, yeah that's a good point.

In veteran ironman

[ih8california]

5 minutes ago, Skitso said:

• Agree on air war
• Mind shield module suffers from similar issues as gas masks, as in being a completely passive item with no gameplay involved. I would change it to a first aid kit styled item that could be actively used to break already established mind control link.
• You seem to want a lot of nerfs in a lot of systems and enemy units yet it seems you've played in the absolute hardest difficulty setting. It's meant to be punishing...
• Giving colossus the ability to use modules and additional weapons and carry items make it just too similar to all other armours. Giving it a rocket launcher which people have waited for the whole game would feel amazing and unique.

• I like the suggestion that the Mind Shield as a health pack equivalent (put into secondary weapon slot) that gives the existing increased bravery state plus the ability to "heal/break" mind control, makes you ration its deployment and use
• Yes, I want nerfs to the most OP alien abilities and in general, I've tried to suggest a corresponding buff to compensate, but yeah the cyberdrone is oppressive as-is, especially in an open area. 
• I get your point about making colossus different, but at the end of the day, it needs to be functional and worth the investment. To me, disallowing modules makes me not want to use it since you need things like auto-med to give your soldiers some survivability. You yourself admit that you haven't played with it. 
• Most strenuously object to the portal/teleport costing 33% TUs, I could maybe see giving it the door treatment (4 TUs), and I get it you want to remove player cheese, which in a vacuum is fine, but the problem is there is too much AI cheese (namely map hacks/TU hacks) that the player needs some sort of advantage.  Unless you are going to redesign the command rooms/bridges so they don't have 5+ aliens camping it's too big of a nerf. 
• In general, I think cleaner missions are mostly in a good place.  I get how lower difficulties might think they are easy, but again, that is not usually the case on commander (especially if you get a ton of agents camping your spawn and on certain map layouts).
• Agree on changing reaper ai, which should be near suicidal instead of often derping behind cover, don't agree on changing stats
• I just get nervous when I hear people who play on lower difficulties suggesting it is too easy and think that if you feel that way I'd recommend upping the difficulty before making the game more difficult in general (which has a cascading effect). Even from veteran to commander is a huge difficulty spike. 

[Spqr]

33 minutes ago, Skitso said:

Ah, yeah that's a good point.

In veteran ironman

Well i can agree with most of your points except just few (after playing on commander difficulty).

First of all - just dont nerf smoke/gas masks. This part of a game works just perfect imo. Considering a fact that around 70-80% of time my soldiers were inside smoke (cause in some missions you basically cant poke your nose out of smoke because of react fire) nerfing smoke/masks will make some missions insanely hard. Regarding Sebillians with gas grenades - just give them alenium grens instead.

Second - i dont see any imbalance in teleports usage. Yes they are a perfect way for kiting (tp in - shot - tp out OR tp-grenade-tp) but aliens can do the same arent they? So instead of changing a teleport system maybe just make aliens more actively using them for scouting and "shoot-tp out" strategy?

All other points i probably agree

[Skitso]

17 minutes ago, ih8california said:

• I just get nervous when I hear people who play on lower difficulties suggesting it is too easy and think that if you feel that way I'd recommend upping the difficulty before making the game more difficult in general (which has a cascading effect). Even from veteran to commander is a huge difficulty spike. 

Well, I just get nervous when I hear people who play on the highest difficulty suggesting it is too hard and think that if you feel that way I'd recommend lowering the difficulty before making the game more easy in general (which has a cascading effect). Even from commander to veteran makes it a lot easier.

Edited March 31 by Skitso

[gG-Unknown]

Quote

1) Squad Sizes:
At the moment the three dropship types can carry 9 / 12 / 16 soldiers respectively. A number of users have mentioned that they feel like this is too many soldiers, and it can make missions feel too long and tedious - there's simply too many soldiers to order around.

We're considering switching the dropships to carry 8 / 10 / 12 soldiers, and then permitting 16 soldiers on the final mission.

YES !

Volume of soldiers  makes missions tedious. It is easy to forgot a soldier somewhere, then get killed. Especially in mopping up operations, move 16 soldiers (or even 12) in formation across map, feels like a boring work rather than game. Best solution is spread your soldiers wide,  and run around like headless chicken. When some one get killed, load up game, then "discover" the alien carefully.That is true poison created by large team. Keep lenght of turn short is more important than keep campaign short.

"8 / 10 / 12 soldiers, and then permitting 16 soldiers on the final mission." - Sounds  like  an instant improvement. It certainly make game more  approachable.There is a minority of customers  who would like 30 soldiers per mission (or  something like that), so make sure it is possible in modding tools  and  announce this feature in advance, clear and loud.

I  would even go further. Make progress more granular, and rise up headcount for final escalations.

I would go 8/9/10 progress for dropships. Keep majority of missions small team - manageable. Then 12 for Quantum Gateway missions - the end game content is always reserved for hardcore fans, so they can handle more. Then Final mission, go total bananas, 22 soldiers on Final mission,  yes it sounds crazy. Chief scientist said : "Quantum Gateway is not reliable, there could be lost  soldiers". (or something like that) Well, the final mission needs maximum firepower, all humanity relay on us, put All-in like poker player would say.  So 22 soldiers go in knowing the risks. Quantum gate gets more unstable, then 16 soldiers survives the teleportation process. Job done, more firepower delivered and Chief scientist feel proud of himself. What happed to those missing 6  is Unknown. (perhaps a DLC  cliffhanger ?)

Regarding lowering amount of opponents, stay relaxed. Let players make a run with current number of opponents, and reduced  soldiers. Then gather feedback, then make changes. You could make even a challenge, 4 winners, one for each difficulty, gets a free copy off Xenonuts 2.

Personal Experience : Difficulty Veteran with HP bar and shot-dmg values visible. In my current playthru I used 9 soldiers  up to the first  Harvester. I take 12 soldiers on first harvester mission, it felt tedious, didnt like it. I am right before the first space mission, I will go with 12 soldiers to the end. I will make a report about opponents volume in final areas when I get there.

----------------------------------------------

I will comment other topics later.

Edited April 1 by gG-Unknown

[Spqr]

Hey guys. After playing 2 full campaigns on soldier and commander difficulties can share my thoughts about questions asked above.

Little disclaimer - thats a subjective experience and you can agree or disagree and thats fine)

"the general difficulty curve of the invasion" - quite same on both difficulties, moderate on the game start and become more and more simple after you advance at your tech-tree (generally and only if you know what to do and how to do on your geoscape). Probably the most unbalanced thing in a game generally are supporters system - some of them are totally worthless while some of them are op (-1 panic per region at month start sounds like a joke while +1 operation point per day is a game-changer especially in first months)

"certain missions being too hard" - the hardest missions in whole game are several in the start of your campaign (when your soldiers are all rookies and you dont have any precious weapons/equipment and cant carry much because of low strength). First cleaners data computers mission and first civilian abduction mission are near impossible to complete with a 100% result on commander difficulty (but quite easy on soldier difficulty though). Also a psyons+cyberdrones terror mission is a nightmare on commander difficulty (cause drones are blowing everything around with a fusion burst reaction fire). I dont say those missions need balancing - on lower difficulties they are absolutely manageable. Just you asked about hardest so here they are)

"certain enemies being too tough or too weak" - too tough is a cyberdrone badass lol While not a big problem on soldier difficulty several of them can bring you some big problems on commander difficulty. Probably the best way to balance him is to increase emp damage for electroshock grenades or at least make those grenades turning off his reaction fire for current turn. Cause enemy that cant be killed even in 2-3 shots, cant be blinded/suppressed and shooting everything that moves near him with a burst fire can be annoying sometimes. Hard to say who is the weakest among them - all other seem to be balanced (Sebillians throwing a gas grenade into you when you are inside your own smoke and have no damage out of it is a nice bonus - not sure if that needs to be changed or not lol)

"certain weapons being overpowered or underpowered" - well i think the correct question should be "what weapons you use/shoot with the most and what the least". In my campaigns i used absolutely all of them and what seemed to me not so useful on soldier difficulty become surprisingly very useful on commander difficulty. Good example - on soldier difficulty i almost never used shields, pistols and shotguns but on commander difficulty those weapons become basic. IMO - weapons that need some rework are assault rifle and machinegun. AR has lots of firing modes but problem is that aimed shot outperforms all of them. Why would i bargain with a chances in other modes if i almost always see 100% on aimed shot? For me it looks like you need to either decrease accuracy for AR aimed shot or increase for all other modes (or make some changes with TUs costs - for example AR aimed shot cost 60% TU not 48%). Machinegun because it's too situational weapon. On one hand thats the only weapon that can 1-shot a Cyberdrone (if odds are on your side) on another you just dont need that amount of damage and usually will have an "overkill" with a high cost of 75% TUs. And with X3 burst fire risk of all 3 misses is too high. Hard to say how to balance this weapon properly - probably increasing accuracy for x3 burst (from 40% to 50-60%?) or adding 3rd firing mode with 1-round and higher accuracy+lower TUs.

Squad Sizes: Why everyone talking about reducing a number of carrying soldiers for dropships? Maybe it's just better to add one more aircraft type - an interceptor-transport hybrid like it was in original xcom? Lets say it should be interceptor with a power between Phantom and Gemini that could carry 8 soldiers. So while intercepting a small/medium ufo you could send it with a 8-soldiers squad and start mission right after successful interception. But for large ufos and terror/alien base mission you could still use your 12-16 man dropships. I think such aircraft will solve all problems with squad sizes

Colossus Armour: first of all need to add using all types of grenades with a range of a grenade launcher not just regular throw (i think this suit should have no problems with throwing something on long distance right?). Second you can add something like a "siege mode" ability for this suit - for example you activate it with a large amount of TU (60-80% TU) and become immobile but starting from next turn you get a TU discount  for all combat actions like firing and throwing grenades (all actions for half TU price maybe)

Wraith Cloaking Field: for me works just fine as it is. No need for any change.

P.S. If i recall smth valuable will update this post. Have a good day everyone!

[SoftwareSimian]

> certain missions being too hard
The only one that stood out to me was OO1-2 or whatever the hold-the-computer-for-six-turns mission is called. So many enemies coming so quickly compared to every other mission. But I think you already reduced the reinforcement rate in a more-recent patch.

1) Squad Sizes
I'm happy with the current size, but your 8/10/12 proposal is acceptable too.

2) Colossus Armour
I've never seen a reason to build it so I can't speak from experience. But if it could handle rocket launchers, or machine guns better that would improve things. If you want to make it exciting, treat it as a human-controlled MARS, let it equip MARS weaponry instead of human weapons.

3) Wraith Cloaking Field
The "new" on-off-on-off is just silly. Could be either on or off at start and toggle upon first damage, both make some kind of sense, but toggling after every damage makes no sense at all.  I do really like Skitso's suggestion even better ("Starts disabled, becomes active on damage for the rest of the turn. Become completely invisible on the next turn. Unable to shoot while invisible and uses all TU moving to a new location").

[Pietje666]

Colossus should be allowed to use modules & jetpack. I see it as integrated parts in the armour after certain techs are researched. 

Wraith should be in stealth mode when you encounter them. An hit should disable the stealth mode. If you didn't kill them after a certain turn they are back to stealth. 

Army size is perfect, yet i so wonder why Chinook has room for 18 soldiers, while the tier 2 version has fewer visible places.

[gG-Unknown]

 

Quote

3) Wraith Cloaking Field:

a) we've added new models, and when Cloaking Field is active it's hard to see what rank the Wraith is or what weapon it is carrying.

b) Eternals also have the Cloaking Field ability. This is another major reason why we've switched the way Cloaking Field works - it really is important to be able to tell Eternals apart from Wraiths at a glance.

• Activates at start of turn, becomes disabled for rest of turn on damage
• Starts disabled, becomes active for rest of turn on damage
• Starts disabled, switches state on damage

I agree to both reasons a) b) mentioned. Cloaking Field should start Disabled. Player should see opponent first. Also I like a Predator-like moment.

Cloaking Switches states on hit is no-go. It has no lore, it is pure artificial solution. I think Xenonuts should build up lore of the franchise consistent, to grow to a big series, like Total war games which is now 30 years on the market.

Starts disabled, becomes active for rest of turn on damage - is the winner. With some spice on top.

1) Spot range limit

when clocking field activates it transform a model to the transparent form first, then comes a  second phase. Cloaking field reduces spot range. Wright reducing spot range by 6 tiles, Ethernals reduce spot range by 12 tiles. Even the game is turn-based, the two cloaking phases happens in real-time. Example : Wraight/Etheral is spotted, shot then hit. Cloaking device activates transparent  model, transparent model is visible for 2-4 seconds (needs test how it feels) then transparent model could go void, disappear because of spot range limit.

2) EMP overload

Lore: Cloaking field is delicate device, it needs a lot of energy  to work and regular maintenance in well equipped workshop to properly calibrate all the sensors. Massive EMP reliably confuse the sensors, so the  new re-calibration is required. EMP-Stun grenade is not enough, impulse is too short It have to be at least 20kV delivered for  at least half a second, it is possible by a gun.

Game rule : When Cloaking field device is hit by a Stun gun OR Electro-guns weaponry it is broken for this fight. It doesn’t matter if it is activated or not, at the moment of hit, EMP brakes the Cloaking device immeediately AND it will not activate until end of fight.

Stun gun and Electro guns (Stun-range  wepons) have  limited usage now. After advent of new melee rules, baton is far efficient AND fun to use than Stun range weapons. I believe that each weapon should have general usage (rifle) OR Advantage in situational usage (pistol+shield). As long as Stun-range  weapons have no longer general usage, it is wise to add an specific advantage for situational usage.

Stun gun

Also, the Stun gun should get improved EMP dmg from 22 to 32. In early game stage when Cloaked  opponents are not available, it can be used as a situational solution against explosive robots. Sorry to taint the post about Cloaking by Stun Gun, balance but good game rule-set is made  as   a spider web - everything is connected to everything.

3) random lenght  of activity

after the Cloacking field is activated, it is active until End o turn OR one turn more OR two turns more. It is pure random 0 - 3 turns. It is easy to program (code man-hours are expensive) and it simulates some sophisticated methods regarding AI programming or device energy consumption and so on. Purpose  is obvious - unpredictable tactic. It is much more difficult  to deal with an opponent, if player do not know if or when it re-appears.

----------------------------------------------

I will comment other topics later.

Edited April 2 by gG-Unknown

[Herr Kodax]

Colossus could maybe use more hardness, better handling for MGs and ability to carry items for others to use (like a pack mule). Narrow vision should stay as is (if not narrower or maybe a little shorter). Modules would make it too powerful in my opinion, with the exception (maybe) of an integrated medi module, but unable to be healed by the medkit.

Sebillians need to be more durable and maybe harder to suppress. Also, as soon as they are suppressed, they are essentially locked into position, making dealing with them even easier.

Air war seems a little too easy.

Wraith cloak. Whatever you do, lore wise I am sure it can be explained. My experience is this: Before the update on how the cloak works, Wraiths would terrify me. It also forced me to carry at least a few grenades in order to effectively deal with them. After the update, I find fighting them quite easier. Scary, still, but easier. While harder, I preferred the old way. Fighting each race felt different, while now dealing with Wraiths is somewhat the same as dealing with Sectons/Psyons. As for the camo and not being able to tell ranks apart, it was also part of the charm. Also, you either have hp/armour visibility on and you know what you are dealing with, or off, so you shoot to kill and the first hit reveals what you are up against.

Cyberdrones are just fine. Tanky and scary, but not an artillery nightmare anymore. No prob with them being able to shoot from farther away, we can do the same with our MARS platforms or snipers.

Gas masks should at least get a vision penalty for all the good they offer.

Mind shield item breaking the mind control (but keeping the 0 TUs state for the released soldier) is an idea that I would very much welcome.

One thing I would really like added is more info on different ranks of aliens added in xenopedia. Maybe requiring extra captures too, so you have to work for it. 

Edited April 3 by Herr Kodax

[pwd]

I really enjoyed my playthrough of 5.5/5.6. I haven't liked the sound of any of the alien nerfs since then. I'd vote for reverting most of them back to how they were in that release.

Probably the only exception is that I like the idea of wraiths going invisible/invisible at range after being hit, which has been suggested by a couple of people. I certainly hope the cloaking field will be changed from its current on/off implementation, one way or another.

I don't even remember the eternals having a cloaking field. I don't see why that should be a big issue anyway unless your problem is that you one-shot everything too easily. My usual strategy of hitting anything with a cloak with splash damage would have stopped it being a significant problem anyway.

Terror missions are appropriately challenging and I liked the way you got swarmed at the start. They usually seemed to be on the same map was the only thing. Hopefully that was fixed, if it was a bug, or more maps and greater chances of having different maps are there now otherwise.

Maybe the game difficulty options would be the appropriate place to change things about alien difficulty. Don't remember how granular the options were. A separate setting for the campaign and for the battles might work well, if it isn't already there.

Didn't use colossus armour enough to remember much about it or have an opinion really. 

Wrt squad size and mission length: I was happy to spend quite a long time on missions, while generally skipping UFOs unless I had a specific reason to do them. I guess that is where a lot of the tedium manifests for people who prefer to do them. Perhaps smaller squads specifically for investigating UFOs would work well, so those missions are shorter. I'd probably do more of them then.

Mind control barely featured in my games. In the old x-com games I remember it being a major factor early on and it added a sense of dread that is not present in xenonauts 2. [I wondered if my age just meant I don't feel dread while playing games any more, but then I remembered deciding not to play silent hill 2 any more last year for the sake of my heart, so that is not it.] This is more of an observation than a suggestion though as I quite enjoyed the game as a relaxing experience focused on tactical gameplay with units that felt more like pieces in a board game than characters in a story.

 

[gG-Unknown]

This article is about explosives - grenades and grenade luncher.

- explosives should be easy to use and devastating, caveat is overkill mechanic linked to sale income. Income should shift more into sell aliens equipment and bodies, with focus on live aliens costs even more. There is a wasted opportunity, rise sell price for high ranking alien. Player then could have a reason to make a decision,  keen eye for those walking treasure chest.  This money shift change  creates  a self regulating system. It helps smoothing out occasional difficulty spikes. Player could handle even very difficult situations by exploding everything, but  he would not want to use explosive in general, because of money income. Passive Income from Supporters-Nations should be lowered AND income from sales junk-aliens-llive aliens should be cranked up.

Throwables
======================

There  is too much smoke one the battlefield. TOP PROBLEM

Cut Smoke blast radius by 1

Make smoke less thick visually. It is sad when player do not see the game. Smoke should be rather "visual information" than "simulation of real smokescreen".

Better visibility for flying grenades. Add  "smoke trace" similar to bullets.
Rise throw range  of grenade (frag,flash,smoke) by 1  <<< HighLighted
Flashbang: add  1 OR upto 3 stun dmg (difference between base-flash and upgraded electro-flash is too much. On top it better communicates that base flash has some stun, then  upgrade has more stun)
Demolition pack weight 6 >> 7
C4 package: (current C4 is tragic, probably it was meant as door breach mechanic, but it do not fly. Althou, Item to blow everything up on a trigger sounds like a fun mechanic.)
weight          15 >> 8
blast radius    2 >> 4
damage type change to Thermal so it blows up environment
add C4 package augmented by Alenium (more dmg)
add C4 package  with fusion fuse (even more dmg)

The changes above for C4 package could be done quickly just by changing numbers, art for upgraded  versions can be added later. In our previous discussion, Chris said that he neds to think about control flow for adding a throw range for the :

add throw range for C4 package 3-5 tiles based on Strength AND  keep trigger mechanic

As result explosive throwable is;

weight - 6 grenades (frag, smoke,bang) - size 1 square

weight - 7 Demo pack                              - size 4 squares

weight - 8 C4 package                             - size 6 squares

 

Grenade luncher
======================
- is weaker after dmg FallOff improvement. Therefore no very useful. There are other/better dmg dealers in the armoury. Rather than dull rise dmg, Here are ideas how to turn gr. luncher into interesting utility weapon. .
Gr. Luncher sales points should be : versatile, reliable, utility, long range area dmg/denial weapon

Change loading style:
Loading one by one ( one ammo clip equals one shell ) Yes, it means that soldier will get a backpack filled  by ammo.
Firing/loading in FIFO style - Example: load smoke grenade, then load explosive grenade. Press fire 1st time, it fires the explosive grenade, then press fire 2nd time, it fires smoke grenade.
It means, it is possible carry different grenade types  inside the weapon.It is possible that one weapon contains all 3 different ammo types grenades.

add incendiary ammo : thermal damage type (same dmg volume as explosive), in the blast radius 1/2 tiles are on fire AND 1/4 is smoke  (great for night missions OR area denial tool)
add another 2 ammo type load buttons on a tactic panel (3 load buttons in total, each for different ammo type)
make better current ammo type queue preview on weapon panel (current ammo preview is for whole clip only, make it so, it shows each grenade type by different colour) Player can see on the weapon panel, what grenade types are loaded. Thanks to FIFO, it is easy to decide which goes out first. Also versatility is created, it is now possible to shoot explosive, then next turn load a smoke and fire in it one turn. Next turn shoot explosive again. So this weapon helps to solve problematic situations.
Reduce angle of miss chance by another degree, so it is 9 instead of 10. - due to dmg fall off, weapon is not very good at delivering dmg, but it should be  reliable >> lower chance to kill team mates.

 

----------------------------------------------

I will comment other topics later.

Edited April 3 by gG-Unknown

[Skitso]

Regarding the balance between different alien races: 

 

Sebillian

What it should be: tough, well armored, fearless, self healing, poor aim, with powerful melee

What it needs to achieve that: more health, more armor, more bravery. less accuracy, more aggressive AI that always prefer melee

Other notes: Sebillian gas grenade is worthless and too easy to counter, suppressed sebillian doesn't act at all, easiest alien race to fight against

Mantid

What it should be: Small, fast, accurate, low health

What it needs to achieve that: Nothing. Pretty much spot on.

Other notes: symbiote launcher could be a grenade instead?

Reaper

What it should be: fast, fearless, terrifying, deadly

What it needs to achieve that: better AI, more TU, more damage. Needs to one-hit reliably. Should never end turn in players LOS unless can kill.

Other notes: not terrifying enough

 

Psyon

What it should be: intelligent, psionic

What it needs to achieve that: Better AI (move better to support triangulation, preserve life (retreat) actively and move in tight packs with sectons)

Other notes: why psyon don't have their own grenade where sebillian and wraith do? Mesmerize nerf was not needed.

Secton

What it should be: Small, intelligent and fast pack hunters with excellent vision

What it needs to achieve that: Better AI (Make them stay indoors, camp/ambush more, preserve life (retreat) actively and move in tight packs with sectons and psyons)

Other notes: currently a bit generic and needs something more to feel distinct.

Cyberdrone

What it should be: Tank like, very tough, deadly

What it needs to achieve that: Nothing. This is spot on.

Other notes: Shouldn't turn to face grenades if the unit throwing it is is cyberdrone's LOS (too easy to cheese)

 

Wraith

What it should be: Accurate sniper, hard to hit. 

What it needs to achieve that: Camo should be better. AI could prefer higher ground more and should maintain distance better. Always move to a new spot after getting hit.

Other notes: Camo on when hit. Next turn completely invisible and moves to a new safer sniping spot or next to a servitor to be healed.

Servitor

What it should be: Suppressing, healing robotic support unit

What it needs to achieve that: This is in good spot. 

Other notes: wounded wraiths should actively move (when cloaked/invisible) close to servitor to be healed

Andron

What it should be: Tough Terminator styled robotic unit.

What it needs to achieve that: If other aliens were able to crouch and preserve their lives better, androns would feel more robotic and menacing

Other notes: could use bigger guns, maybe rocket launcher? 

 

Mentarch

What it should be: well shielded one shotter

What it needs to achieve that: I like it the way it is. Maybe could be  a tad tougher. Could the model be made larger?

Other notes: UFO crews could have more than one mentarch. More random numbers.

 

Cleaner Agent

What it should be: Normal human agent

What it needs to achieve that: Shouldn't be so aggressive, should try to preserve own life better.

Other notes: is longer night vision fixed already?

Cleaner Soldier

What it should be: Brain washed human agent

What it needs to achieve that: Spot on

Other notes: some could have frag grenades?

 

Edited April 3 by Skitso

[Doshniel]

Hi!
If anyone remembers me, this isn't going to surprise anyone. I like a lot of soldiers and I want a lot of soldiers. If I wanted to play a game with less soldiers there are many such games. Massive Chalice is one such game. I don't want to play that. I want to play a game with lot's of soldiers.

Edited April 3 by Doshniel

[ih8california]

Operation Endgame Feedback:

*********SOME MINOR SPOILERS************

 

 

 

 

Part 1:

Pros:

- The map, well done!

- The tension of the first phase

Cons:

- After the first phase is complete, I felt really let down completing the 2nd objective. Seemed very tedious.

Part 2:

Pros:

- Depleted forces/ammo raises the stakes

Cons:

- Anti-climatic. Part 2 was just a tedious grind, no tension, no rush. A noted downgrade from X1 Endgame or even the first half of part 1.

 

Suggestion:

- Part 1: My only real suggestion is to reduce the grind from the 2nd half (I understand that is part of the mission to weaken your forces for part 2, but stay with me....). I didn't find exploring every nook and cranny for the last remaining aliens enjoyable, I did that enough during the campaign (i.e. alien bases). I don't know if that just means assembling all of your troops to a designated pad area to "descend" into the facility where the High Eteneral is

- Part 2: Split in 2 parts:

Part 1 is the current iteration (in addition to the High Eteneral, I'd suggestion adding 2-3 more Eternals in the throne room, replacing some of the current aliens). Additionally, I think the High Eternal needs a slight buff, in retrospect he went down rather easily. 

My vision for Part 2 would be a Super Metroid-style Xebes escape sequence that begins immediately after you've rigged the eternal quantum gateway to explode and are now desperately trying to get back to the dropship and escape the planet. Time would be limited and aliens would still be in your way, but they would only offer token resistance (big debuffs to morale and the weakest versions of aliens, more of an annoyance/distraction than anything) where available turns remaining is the most pressing consideration.

[gG-Unknown]

On 4/3/2025 at 5:51 PM, Skitso said:

Regarding the balance between different alien races:

My   added coments to your original text are // purple bold

 

Sebillian

Other notes: Sebillian gas grenade is worthless and too easy to counter // grenades are just fine. It is problem of gas mask not grenade or Seiblians. Would you mind to make an dedicated  post in this topic, how better gas mask should work ? , easiest alien race to fight against // someone has to do the job

Mantid

Other notes: symbiote launcher could be a grenade instead? // there is a request to Chris, make alien grenades officially useable by player. It would be better to make  Symbiote launcher use ballistic curve same as Grenade luncher. Also add symbiote launcher snap fire use 45% TU, so Mantid could spawn up to two biters per turn. For even better insect tactic, here is an idea : When Mantid regularly dies (no unconscious, no overkill) it is 50% his body spawns 1-2 symbiote in 0-2 turns.

Reaper

What it needs to achieve that: better AI, // I thing these creatures should a use pack mentality. 1. move in a pack, play it safe until pack is large enough 2. convert all civilians 3. assault player solder in group

Other notes: not terrifying enough // agree

Psyon

Other notes: why psyon don't have their own grenade where sebillian and wraith do? // mental breakdown grenade ?  Mesmerize nerf was not needed. // agree

Cyberdrone

Other notes: Shouldn't turn to face grenades if the unit throwing it is is cyberdrone's LOS (too easy to cheese) // it is intended by design, and  I like it.

Wraith

Other notes: Camo on when hit. // agreed

Servitor

Other notes: wounded wraiths should actively move (when cloaked/invisible) close to servitor to be healed // I like it !

Andron

Other notes: could use bigger guns, maybe rocket launcher? // not sure. Dont make another Cyberdrone. I think Andrones should get more armour, but but their dmg is ok. They should not be so devastating as Cyberdrones. Result of higer armour is >> they will be harder to shot  by regular gun so it is they will be often  killed by baton or stun gun. For this reason, I would lower a bit of their TU so they walk less >> so it is easier to sneak closer for melee or stun-gun ambush.

Mentarch

What it needs to achieve that: Could the model be made larger? // agree

Other notes: UFO crews could have more than one mentarch. More random numbers. // dont agree. Uniqueness of Mentarch is in the fact, that he is actually unique.

Cleaner Agent

What it needs to achieve that: Shouldn't be so aggressive, should try to preserve own life better. // sometimes, yes. I miss agent with shield.

Cleaner Soldier

What it needs to achieve that: // They need a gas/toxic based weapon. Short range gas spray would fit.

Other notes: some could have frag grenades? // or better  a gas/toxic grenade

Edited April 5 by gG-Unknown

[delor]

re: Sebillians, I think gas masks are fine for smoke- one less grenade in exchange for being able to move through your own smoke- but they do trivialize the poison grenades.

 

Simple fix?  Make them acid grenades.  They always damage you, mask or no, but humans inside the acid at the start of the turn need to make a bravery check or flee for their turn unless they're wearing a mask.  The damage isn't that extreme anyway, and this preserves the area denial role of the grenades while leaving utility on masks to help resist them.

[Rakiii]

Here are my thoughts from playing on Commander difficulty on the stable 5.23 branch:

General feedback

• Pacing of the game feels too fast. Each phase should be at least 3 months with more events occuring (more missions, wave of UFO´s etc). Also Long war version of the game would be cool
• The moment I have researched advanced lasers I could have gaus weapons. Btw I think magnetic and gaus weapons should have advanced version of them available to research same as laser/fusion does.
• Abduction mission seems harder than the rest of other early game missions. There should be less aliens or we should have more time (+1 Turn would be fine) // Well cleaner timed missions are harder than UFO crashed in general cos time pressure (+1 turn would be fine)
• Sebiilians - giving them burst was a nice idea but 5* burst feels a bit too strong. I would change it to 3* but made them harder to suppress. Well suppresion is too strong in general imo. I know we had different values for suppression in X1 (for grenades and weaponsú. Is it still a thing ? I cannot see any values.
• I think Reapers are too easy to kill - they should be tougher to kill but give them more stun damage over lethal damage to compensate. Also there could be rare but bigger and stronger version of them (alfa reapers)
• Cyberdrones - I think they should not be moving through walls (e.g. on orbital mission) and the gun feels too accurate or strong in general. I think one bigger ball of plasma that explodes on impact feels ok. Also did you buff their numbers? I have met six of them on terror mission and seen screen with 7 of them ... I think I have never met such high number of them in any mission earlier. I think 3-4 would feel more fair.

Colossus Armor 

First of all I would keep it rather niche but more interesting armor to use.

I think base armor could be buffed from 40>50 but rather than just buffing its armor values I would give it smth special like semi-regenerating armor based on damage taken. Smth like restoring 33% of damage taken as armor (60 lost hp could restore 20 armor)

1. More effective LMG - reduce TU from 75% > 65%
2. Modules - not all but I think it could have inbuilt healing module and could give user higher morale bonus (as opposite to negative reflexes). You are kind of walking tank so you shouldnt be too scared right?:). I have controversial idea here. What about removing strength module from the game ( it´s easy to use on all soldiers and feels mandatory). instead I would reduce weight of items (especially  grenades, magazines,-...) to not affect your soldiers too much but +strength bonus on Colossus would feel more rewarding finally.
3. Additional weapons - I would allow heavy launcher for use as well. Big melee weapon? yeah that seems unrealistic but could be fun so why not. Maybe smth like minigun with higher number of projectiles but lower damage, high strength and TU requirement (40-50 strength), low accuracy but high damage and suppression potential so it could profit from strength bonus.
4. Carry other items - ok why not 
5. Jetpack - pls NO! ever seen tanks flying? ..

Wraith Cloaking Field:

• Activates at start of first turn (battle), becomes disabled for rest of turn on damage and been disabled permanently while on low life (<33% hp)

Squad Sizes:

8 - 10 - 12 would feel like a good compromise but I wouldnt mind having a few special missions where you just need e.g. 4 soldiers or smth. It would bring more diversity.

Btw I could use max 12 soldiers on UO-1 mission despite having the best ship. Is it intended?

Edited April 18 by Rakiii

[Berserk]

5 hours ago, Rakiii said:

Also did you buff their numbers? I have met six of them on terror mission and seen screen with 7 of them ... I think I have never met such high number of them in any mission earlier.

Yeah hehehehehhehehehehhehehe Brother is speaking faxx lmaooooooooooo