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Recruiting soldiers and other personnel


Gazz

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How about not bothering with the training and just have the option of hiring different ranks?

Hiring ten new rookies would be pretty cheap or you could hire a couple of higher ranks if you need to fill holes in your main team.

That would avoid the need for basic training.

The higher cost and more limited numbers of higher ranks would be a self limiting factor.

There would need to be a cut off but you could balance that to make sure it wasn't overpowering.

You could increase the number of rank 2/3 later in the game to make the new recruits potentially better.

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But then you may want a sergeant, but the only one available may only be good at melee, where the one you lost, the one you really need a replacement for was a sniper.

Better to mould a fresh trooper to your liking (who'll go up levels faster) than have a well levelled trooper with no skills you want...

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But then you may want a sergeant, but the only one available may only be good at melee, where the one you lost, the one you really need a replacement for was a sniper.

Better to mould a fresh trooper to your liking (who'll go up levels faster) than have a well levelled trooper with no skills you want...

Yeah that would have to be a choice you would need to make. But to a point it's the same choice you would need from most different methods being discussed. If you can see the stats of a trooper prior to hiring them, then you pick and choose the one that suits what you are after. Heavy weapons trooper you go with strength, sniper you go with accuracy etc

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But then you may want a sergeant, but the only one available may only be good at melee, where the one you lost, the one you really need a replacement for was a sniper.

Better to mould a fresh trooper to your liking (who'll go up levels faster) than have a well levelled trooper with no skills you want...

Sometimes it's fun to roll with the punches. I said in my previous post that stats gain could be split between any and all attributes. It would probably be best if it just split them equally amongst all attributes. Arguably it makes more sense that way.

If we did sort it out, it'd either take the form of gradually bumping up the stats of the recruits as the game advances (probably based on the alien invasion ticker)

The other option is to merge training with recruitment. Effectively the same thing as Gaudlike has said except I would go with a longer time delay as well as cost for better training. Again tied to how your performing in the game.

On the recruitment page you can see the pool of recruits. And you get 3 options for hiring under each potential recruit.

No time to waste! - They are hired as is. Are ready within the usual couple of days and cost the base amount.

Show em the ropes - Hired but sent through basic training first. Takes an extra week to get them and costs more money. Behind the scenes thats 2% bonus to stats based on gamescore

You'll be an elite fighter one day! - Self explanitory. Hired but you wait an extra 2 weeks and costs the most. 5% bonus to stats based on gamescore

This would create some interesting choices for the player. Basically expanding on what Chris was going for but you have to make your choice when you hire them.

If the pool has an expert soldier in there do you send him through elite training and just hire the rest of the riff-raff until he is ready? I think this would be quite good actually. It would be easy to tie into the UI, creates some input from the player, gives them a choice and doesn't increase micromanagent at all. It's only ever one button you press.

Edited by Tweakd
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But then you may want a sergeant, but the only one available may only be good at melee, where the one you lost, the one you really need a replacement for was a sniper.

Better to mould a fresh trooper to your liking (who'll go up levels faster) than have a well levelled trooper with no skills you want...

You could choose to pick up that rookie or pick up a sergeant instead.

If there is no sergeant that meets your requirements then wait until the pool refreshes or make do with the rookie.

It is another option rather than a replacement of the system.

Adding in training etc to do the same job just seems more opaque.

It is obvious that a sergeant is a higher rank and therefore slightly better than the rookie.

He has no real advantages over the rookie that wouldn't come with time though.

You are paying extra to hire someone more experienced.

Edited by Gauddlike
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While it'd be nice to have something more elaborate I'm fine with this system. Deciding whether to pay more and "lose" the soldier for X amount of time or send him into the grinder right away makes for a valid strategic choice imo.

I also agree with improving the familiarization course depending on the time passed, tech researched and autopsies/interrogations performed. Perhaps the training could also get longer the better it gets making the choice more and more difficult as things heat up.

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I dunno. It kind of makes carefully controlling and growing your troops less important.

If you can replace basic, reasonably experienced troops with little effort...that doesn't sound so good to me.

I agree.

What about recruits to hire have random stats, for example one could be an ex-military with lots of experience (good combat stats) but no experience at all with alien encounters, so this particular recruit will be more easily spooked / panic the few first times he/she encounters an alien.

Is panicking in the game? Mind control?

I honestly didn't read every word in this thread or even the rest of the forum, so if this was already mentioned / suggested... Just ignore it :P

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I just see a training course like that as a waste.

There is no meat to it.

It can be easily replaced without being missed and without the game losing anything.

I agree with Sathra that being able to hire troops that are too powerful would definitely detract from the troop growth.

However is being able to hire a couple of squaddies and a sergeant any different from having a training course you can put everyone through to get them to the same stage?

It just removes the pointless training course and simplifies the process.

Rookie = basic, higher rank = better, pretty straightforward.

I would probably limit it to rank two and an occasional rank three if you get lucky.

It also covers the suggestion of adding better starting troops later in the game without adding stats or bonuses to them.

You can increase the availability of rank two troops slightly as more troops become familiar with the threats.

Even then they may not have the stats to directly replace an experienced trooper who has had a lot of experience and stat gains.

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I just see a training course like that as a waste.

There is no meat to it.

It can be easily replaced without being missed and without the game losing anything.

I agree with Sathra that being able to hire troops that are too powerful would definitely detract from the troop growth.

However is being able to hire a couple of squaddies and a sergeant any different from having a training course you can put everyone through to get them to the same stage?

It just removes the pointless training course and simplifies the process.

Rookie = basic, higher rank = better, pretty straightforward.

I would probably limit it to rank two and an occasional rank three if you get lucky.

It also covers the suggestion of adding better starting troops later in the game without adding stats or bonuses to them.

You can increase the availability of rank two troops slightly as more troops become familiar with the threats.

Even then they may not have the stats to directly replace an experienced trooper who has had a lot of experience and stat gains.

We are all under agreement that troops should not be high skilled when they are hired. Bumping them up one or two ranks at a cost however is not going to be gamebreaking.

Gaudlike my suggestion and yours are pretty similar but can I ask a question. Why would you prefer to hire a sergeant than to train him up over the course of a week or two?

I think a time delay would be an interesting feature that is a much greater concern than X cost.

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Why would you prefer to hire a sergeant than to train him up over the course of a week or two?

I think a time delay would be an interesting feature that is a much greater concern than X cost.

A time delay isn't an interesting feature, it is just a delay.

If you are in a hurry to fill your team it is annoying, if you aren't in a hurry it is irrelevant.

Having a selection of different troops with varying ranks gives you the choice to hire a rookie or a higher rank.

Do you go for one of the abundant rookies and wait for them to become more experienced or do you spend more cash now for one of the few sergeants who has appeared for hire?

Over time it makes no real difference but at the point of hiring it is a choice.

Finding one of these higher ranks come up when you need one should be something to be excited about.

A highlight rather than just another click on the hiring screen.

You could always leave the basic training in place as another option, it just doesn't feel like such an interesting option.

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A time delay isn't an interesting feature, it is just a delay.

If you are in a hurry to fill your team it is annoying, if you aren't in a hurry it is irrelevant.

Having a selection of different troops with varying ranks gives you the choice to hire a rookie or a higher rank.

Do you go for one of the abundant rookies and wait for them to become more experienced or do you spend more cash now for one of the few sergeants who has appeared for hire?

Over time it makes no real difference but at the point of hiring it is a choice.

Finding one of these higher ranks come up when you need one should be something to be excited about.

A highlight rather than just another click on the hiring screen.

You could always leave the basic training in place as another option, it just doesn't feel like such an interesting option.

I see your point but for arguments sake the same logic can be applied to hiring from a more varied pool. If I'm strapped for cash it's annoying and if I'm not then it's irrelevant.

I would still enjoy occasionly getting a higher ranked potential recruit. Rather than everyone being noobs I like the idea of getting a decent replacement once in a while. But I also think there might be something to training. Perhaps the way Chris has laid it out is the best but I can't shake the idea that putting training options with the options to hire makes a lot of sense. Especially if training will be basically just a time delay and a cost for an amount of stats gain.

Err I've just had an idea. Oh this might be good!

As your scientists perform research, autopsys and alien weapons and the like, a list builds up in the training screen. Individual soldiers do not get the advantages of the research until they have been trained on the specifics. So if you want Team Alpha to get the benefits of that sectiod research you have to take some of them or all of them out of combat for a day. If you want Sergeant Urist to use those funny looking Sonic guns they keep finding you need to get him trained up in their use after your scientists have figured it out.

New recruits would go on training to catch up on the advances bringing them in line with the others. Existing members would need to be taught as things unfold. The training screen would be used to keep track of who knows what etc.

This would really mix up the play. It would lead to specialisation within your team. Rather than everyone being able to wield laser weapons at once only a few can if that's the path you decide to take.

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I see your point but for arguments sake the same logic can be applied to hiring from a more varied pool. If I'm strapped for cash it's annoying and if I'm not then it's irrelevant.

One difference is that you always need cash to hire.

This just gives you more variety in your hiring pool.

Tagging on a training system to do basically the same thing as hiring someone a rank higher is fluff for the sake of calling it training.

I don't see an advantage to doing it that way or an improvement to the game.

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Gauddlike, what I don't like about your system is that it makes moeny too powerful, essentially. Having the training course means you need money AND time to get a more experienced soldier. If you can just hire them straight out, that's the kind of feature that could completely ruin the balance of the game if we get it even slightly wrong - we'd easily just be in a situation where everyone buys only experienced troops and never rookies...

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That would be where the availability of troops comes in.

If you have limited numbers of rank two troops available then that should (in theory) be fairly easy to balance.

If you choose to buy every single sergeant and avoid rookies you would have far less cash then someone who picked up rookies.

You would also have a much smaller pool of troops.

If you had say a 15% chance for rank two and a 5% chance for a rank three to appear in your potential hiring pool.

Hiring them would probably replace them in the list with a rookie as well.

The system is basically the same other than taking longer for your troops to be ready.

If troops are already going to take time to arrive on base after being hired then that extra time is going to be just an invisible annoying delay.

Letting them sit in the base for a week or two to gain their first rank seems pretty dull.

At least if you have the chance to hire more than just the basic grunts it adds a little interest to the hiring process.

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SO basically the way I see the comparison is this.

Scenario:

You have sent your 12 man squad out on an intercept and they have been wiped out.

Training method:

You hire 12 new rookies and put them through the training course.

Three weeks later you have a new 12 man squad of second rankers.

Mixed pool method:

You check the pool and find you have 3 second rankers available.

You hire them to form the core of your new unit and have to hire rookies to fill the spaces.

It is possible you could have gotten really lucky on the random pool though.

You may have been able to hire a single rank three and 4 rank twos!

Then you still need to fill the spaces with rookies.

I see the training method as more likely to leave players always hiring the higher rank (by training), especially in other cases where you don't need to replace a team in a hurry.

That seems more likely to cause the issue that Sathra was worried about as well.

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SO basically the way I see the comparison is this.

Scenario:

You have sent your 12 man squad out on an intercept and they have been wiped out.

Training method:

You hire 12 new rookies and put them through the training course.

Three weeks later you have a new 12 man squad of second rankers.

Mixed pool method:

You check the pool and find you have 3 second rankers available.

You hire them to form the core of your new unit and have to hire rookies to fill the spaces.

It is possible you could have gotten really lucky on the random pool though.

You may have been able to hire a single rank three and 4 rank twos!

Then you still need to fill the spaces with rookies.

I see the training method as more likely to leave players always hiring the higher rank (by training), especially in other cases where you don't need to replace a team in a hurry.

That seems more likely to cause the issue that Sathra was worried about as well.

I had already thought Gauddlike's idea was a good one, but actually seeing it spelled out so simply it does make a lot of sense, particular when you consider that you might have been really unlucky on the pool and only have rookies for hire anyway.

It also seems much more reasonable for a new team to arrive with a couple of 2nd tier troops and the rest rookies, rather than hiring and instantly training your rookies to be 2nd tier. When you think the rookies would already have gone through what passes for their own nationality's basic training, the logical next step is action - not more training to gain a rank (except for commissioned officers - but that is another discussion and one that is likely not going to amount to anything implementable)

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Having to hire and then train also incorporates having to pay them wages.

The main purpose of the training isn't to get skilled troops, its just a safer way to get rid of liabilities (rookies in combat). A few points of accuracy and stamina is nothing.

I don't like the idea of hiring already skilled troops. It degrades the value of properly raised troops.

Heck, I don't really see why we need to have the training anyways. As has been mentioned, it doesn't fit well. Go rookies!

Survivors will be treasured.

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All of the soldiers up for recruitment are supposedly members of other militaries anyway, they aren't civvies needing to be taught how to walk in a straight line and how to spell 'incoming'. It doesn't make that much sense starting them at different xenonaut ranks unless their former rank is being carried over, in which case where are low level officers etc...

All recruits start as a 'xenonaut' rookie, and after initial training are familiarised enough with the organisation, operating practices and having to shoot at goddamn ETs that they can fight effectively alongside people already used to it. Their origin as a trained soldier recruited from an existing military explains why they don't need to be in boot camp for several months after being hired.

I just hope that their starting abilities allow them to actually be competent with the starting weapons, because being trained soldiers already they'd already know how to use the human-made ballistic firearms which are the starting arsenal. I really really hated the X-COM style of "These are humanities finest soldiers armed with a stabilised marksman rifle with a laser sight." yet they only sometimes knew which end of the gun the bullets came out of. It shattered the immersion for me. Later, higher-tech guns would be fine like that if they're unusual and you get one stuffed in your hands and need to learn it like a lover. And by all means have the rookies miss as often as in the original. Just have the bullet at least go towards the target. Please.

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One thing that I always found annoying was when the soldiers went berserk and would actually turn away from the enemy and fire several shots into the ground. I have never been in combat, but that seems a little silly to me to imagine a soldier turning around in the middle of combat and shooting into the ground. Freezing up I can totally understand and maybe even throwing your weapon down and running, but definitely not towards the enemy.

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The main purpose of the training isn't to get skilled troops, its just a safer way to get rid of liabilities (rookies in combat). A few points of accuracy and stamina is nothing.

I don't like the idea of hiring already skilled troops. It degrades the value of properly raised troops.

Training them to the second rank has less of that degradation than hiring them at that rank?

That makes no real difference but adds the training to cover the gap.

Your point about wages may be valid if the training takes months at a time but if it is less than that it won't make any difference.

I really don't like the rookie training as proposed.

It is lifeless but would probably end up being used 90% of the time just because it is there.

With the training EVERY one of your troops would end up being a rank two without needing to take part in any combat.

With my system you would be able to hire some rank two (or even a rare rank three) to fill out your squads.

They would probably be weaker than a rank two who had fought his way up and gained stats along the way but that is to be expected.

Just because they have the rank doesn't mean they have gained the skills of their more experienced brethren.

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I'm somewhat with Guaddlike on this, I was surprised to hear that running rookies through a basic training course promotes them to Corporal. Rookie ≠ Private. So how about introducing a Private rank? Privates become rank one and rookies are rank zero.

Hire rookies, after initial training they lose the morale penalty and get promoted to Private, or if they get enough experience on the battlefield the same happens.

It gives players the option to take rookies as is that we currently have, with associated penalties, or putting them through training not to alter their stats, but to avoid the penalty incurred by taking them as rookies. So the only way of improving your troops' current abilities will be through taking them on missions (new abilities, if there are any, could be obtained through research and then trained per soldier) But the initial training course then becomes a choice between penalty-on-mission or penalty-of-time.

Otherwise the game remains the same. Given the distribution of rank is not going to be affected by the ranks of other soldiers, I don't see why it's necessary that the starting soldiers need to be demoted either, in fact it makes them even more valuable by having slightly improved stats from any you could hire.

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Heck, I don't really see why we need to have the training anyways. As has been mentioned, it doesn't fit well. Go rookies!

Survivors will be treasured.

Yes, that's how I like it ! I didn't mind using bad rookies or sack them really ... don't you love that guy who barely made it through basic training but survived some intense encounters in his first missions ending up with tons of kills?

Why all the micromanagement 'hate' I sense around here, some players really love that. I guess it's the younger people not caring anymore for game depth :(

Hell the total lack of micromanagement makes games boring to me ...

Edited by Leto
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