Beta impressions so far.

[Shaska]

I've been playing the beta for a few days now, and I wanted to post some feedback on my experiences with it.

I played the alpha for a bit as well, but I didn't get too far due to not wanting to get too much of the game spoiled.

Starting with the most important thing first:

The Tactical Layer:

Squad Size

Landing parties currently feel very small, especially in the early game. It doesn't allow for that much flexibility in tactics, and combined with the fact that bringing a vehicle instead of 2 more soldiers is a no-brainer, you really don't have many ways to approach any given problem.

From reading the forum I've noticed that reducing it to 8-10-12 is under consideration. I'm hoping you'll consider increasing it as well, to something like 12-16-20, and making a vehicle take 4 soldier slots, so that bringing one is an actual decision, rather than being the best course of action.

Maps

Overall I think the maps are very well designed, allowing for multiple routes to an objective, and such. Despite this however, they manage to feel very linear. In the majority of the maps I've played, you have the landing craft on one side of the map, and the UFO on the other side. Most of them also don't seem to be very wide, making them feel more like corridors than anything, meaning that despite not knowing where the UFO is, I always know exactly where to look, even if it's the first time I play the map.

Difficulty

So far I've found ground combat to be incredibly easy and thus unrewarding. While I'm sure a lot of this stems from the AI being unfinished, I believe a lot of it is also a product of the corridor-like map design and low unit cap. I'm currently able to cover most of the map with a line of soldier, leaving very few dark corners for aliens to hide in and flank me from, and the low unit cap means that the alien presence needs to be proportionally low, which limits their options, just like mine are similarly limited.

Another thing would be that since the first encounter, I've felt on even footing with the aliens. Assault rifles vs plasma pistols, lasers and armor versus plasma rifles, plasma vs plasma, I was never really playing catch-up, never really that one step behind.

I did actually take a bit of a beating at first, but this was mostly because I was still learning how to best use the games features. In fact I still have 4 people on in my 6-man team that have been on every mission so far (meaning they have never even been heavily wounded in combat), which really illustrates how little danger the alien threat actually poses.

The Cover System

I really like the cover system overall, but it does feel a bit wonky and unintuitive at times. Take this situation for example:

One unit is behind a cover that is 2 squares long, aiming at another unit that is not behind cover. The game ignores the first square of cover for the sake of aiming, but the cover in the next square is taken into consideration, even though you wouldn't logically hit it from that position unless you were aiming for it.

Another thing would be shooting past several unconnected pieces of cover. From the way game presents it, it seems that each piece of cover is taken into consideration individually, instead of considering how much of the target is obscured by all the pieces of cover between you as a whole. I don't know exactly how the game calculates this however, so I might be wrong about this.

Miscellaneous

The sight range of your soldiers is pretty low. I'd love to see it increased a bit to allow for longer-range combat.

The Reapers feel a bit underpowered in my experience. They'll wreck havoc on your team if they get close, but that doesn't seem to happen much unless they catch you by surprise. Could probably benefit from a small health boost.

The Strategic Layer:

Research & Development

It's currently a bit strange. Research seems to be easily handled by a 15-man team through most of the game. Having autopsies done instantly seems strange as well, basically boiling down to being a damage bonus for meeting a race for the first time, rather than something you'd prioritize when you need it.

Manufacturing scales up nicely at first, but suddenly jumps immensely, to the point where you suddenly need to build 3-4 extra workshops to get things done in time. A smoother increase to that point would be nice.

Economy

Feels a bit strange. Sometimes I'll be scraping by, until the council bails me out. Other times I'll be rolling around in cash, not even sure what to do with it all (though that is not a "problem" I have for very long). One thing is always constant though: I never really seem able to afford building, expanding and outfitting a second base.

I'd make an argument for allowing manufacturing to be profitable, but that is already being discussed elsewhere it seems.

Miscellaneous

Air Combat: Feels pretty balanced, and it's quite fun. Kinda trivial once you get the hang of it, but that is to be expected really.

Xenopedia: Love it, looking forward to it being complete. If possible I'd love to have individual pages about each weapon, displaying their stats, TU requirements, firing modes, etc. Especially for alien weapons, so I can better work out if they have any flaws I can exploit.

Stats: I'm lacking a general overview of alien activity. It's hard to get an idea about what is going on in the world outside of my radar range.

Bugs:

Vanishing shots: A weapon will sometimes shoot, but not produce any projectiles. Seems to be related to the weapon running out of ammo while burst-firing.

Equipment disappearing: All of a soldiers equipment will occasionally disappear forever. Seems to be related to an injured soldier being fully healed.

Item duplication: At one point I was able to duplicate plasma rifles. I got the pop-up that my plasma rifles were done being manufactured. When I entered the manufacturing screen through the button in the pop-up, it still showed 1 still being in production, but 99% complete. I then went over to the soldier loadout screen, and removed a plasma rifle from a soldier that showed 0/10 (or whatever the ammo count is for it) left in the magazine. When I re-added it to the soldiers inventory, my stock of plasma rifles were not reduced, and I was able to remove and re-add it to duplicate as many as I wished.

Buzzard armor: Throwing a grenade uses the unarmored sprite. When moving the soldier wearing it will often vanish, but a very large image of him moving will appear somewhere on the screen. The jumping mechanics is wonky, and often doesn't work at all.

Fire and smoke will occasionally be visible in unexplored areas.

Taking a wounded soldier with you into ground combat will allow you to fully heal his wounds with a medkit.

Displayed chance-to-hit a target behind cover seems off. I am able to hit targets displaying 4% hit chance way more often than should be statistically possible.

Soldiers that are KIA, and reported as such on the score screen, sometimes seem to show up injured in the medbay.

Throughout the game magazines are incorrectly referred to as clips. These are not interchangeable terms (I know this seems like a small issue, but this is what it sounds like when you know the difference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRhGPVYRsOY ).

Encountered a door I was unable to enter:

With all that being said though, I'm having a blast with the game.

It's a lot of fun, even in its current unfinished state.

Good luck with the beta, and I hope this wall of text is at least somewhat useful.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Shaska
Added another bug.

[Sathra]

Most of the bugs have been reported and fixed in the next version. No-one has reported the door one yet though. Probably because not many get to play the soviet town map.

As for the rest, its either being worked on or a very interesting observation from a new player (and thus good for balancing). Or both.

[Gauddlike]

For the cover system see accuracy calculation wiki page for more info.

May not be 100% up to date but it is the best info we have so far.

I am not quite ready to weigh in on the squad size and maps yet, I want to see how the AI develops a bit more first.

I do think the early maps should have a bit more life in them but Chris has said there are plenty more of them to add before the end of beta.

I am not convinced on the sight range increase you mention, partly because of the issue you followed it up with.

If reapers and so on can't get close enough to be effective with the current sight range setting how would they manage if it was increased?

On top of that is the squad sight/reaction fire issue that I would like to see resolved before making a separate change that could exacerbate the problem.

Remember that the autopsies no longer give bonus damage so you are not getting a free damage boost with no research time.

You are simply getting some flavour text on the enemies you just met that might help you out next time.

Oh and on the clips/magazine thing...

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/2852-Naming-Conventions-Clips-and-Magazines

Nice summary of your thoughts so far thanks

[thothkins]

Interesting point about how you approach the maps. I imagine that practically everyone at least checks to see if they are in a corner, before starting out on deployment. But here, you can do more than that due to the funnelling of a rectangular map.

As the OP suggests, this leads you to position your troops differently to take advantage of it. Mixing in squarer maps would perhaps help out here, as well as possibly putting the Chinook in the middle of one end (if not elsewhere on the map) more frequently.

I'd agree with the thought s on not increasing the LOS of Xenonauts, and yeah, the jury's out on the squad size. Perhaps a little small for terror missions, yet large for small craft.

[TehRic]

Rectangular maps are fun for a few missions, but I agree that they detract from the fear of flank, especially for day-time missions. One good flank I recall was during a day-time terror mission, and that was simply because those tend to have a ton of hiding spots via buildings. Many of the crash-landing missions lack in this department, unless it's a night-mission.

Great points brought up, overall, Shaska.

[TheTuninator]

Good post!

Personally, I don't feel that there's much weapon parity at all once you get past Caesans (and that's good!) I need to pump a Sebilian full of M-16 and M60 rounds before he drops, but 1-2 plasma rifle shots will do for my guys.

Map variety is definitely a concern, but I'd chalk that up to the small amount of maps in the pool right now. Given how easy community mapmaking is, I am not concerned about long-term map variety.

Agreed that squad sizes are a bit too small. Six men plus a vehicle is tiny enough that a bad play or two can get you wiped even on a mere Scout mission. I wouldn't call the ground combat easy, though there is definitely room for improvement, mostly in alien behavior; I'd like to see Sebilians act like the beastly tanks they are and rush my troops sometimes instead of retreating, for one.

[zolobolo]

Started my first game a few days ago and now that it seems I get my butt kicked by some greys I though I will share my experience from a viewpoint of someone who one heard of the game a week ago. So here it goes after 3-4 month of game time:

Theme: Overall cold war theme work well, I mostly didn't have a feeling that some images were out of place, the simple isometric view and comic like colors work well (3D is overrated in strategy games anyway)

Strategy:

+ Base building has potential, I felt like I need to build more bases to survive

+ Air combat is fun as hell, and the implementation is convincing&leaves room for planing and tactics

- GUI was a bit tedious to use but I guess this is soon undergoing a total overhaul.

- I never felt I was getting enough money to build a second base, and though I tried after the first month it took forever to get it up and running, by which time I have lost too much support from the funding nations

Bugs:

- Soldiers are occasionally not selectable with the mouse (though I cannot tell sadly when exactly). Shortcut is still working though and afterwards return to normal, but until I move the guy, he/she is virtually non existing for the others and they can pass right through him/her

- CTD after hunter got destroyed once

- CTD twice in terror mission during hidden movement

- Screen freeze during terror mission hidden movement

Aiming system:

+ Works generally well, I did have a sense of safety within cover (compared to EU), but still was dangerous enough to worry for my soldiers each turn

-The nice cover indicator is missing in a lot of places where I was expecting it: rocks in desert map, tractor, snow mobile, and behind friendly tank

- There were cases when I hit an alien with 0% and (the more sad examples) hit the troop transporter with the same percentage

- I have came across a store several times within the top of a terror map where nor cover nor chances of hit were shown reliably (lost some good man in that store )

Spelling error:

- In the "Alien interrogation" summary "We had some success" instead of " We has..."

Visuals:

+ Wasn't expecting too much but got surprised. A lot of details: are top notch including research pictures, map props, building interiors, the initial troop transporter is just gorgeous.

+ Laser weapons rockets are great, sadly did not get further up in the tier

+ Soldier faces and small pictures are perfect for the game of course the more the merrier

- Had the feeling that soldier pictures in the equipment screen is a bit off but couldn't put a finger on it, and after a while the only thing that I could think of are the helmets. Basic helmet reminds me of fireman and soldiers from 1st world war soldiers. It may add to the feeling of effective hand picked soldiers if German or American helmets are used or just caps like those of the German or Japanese soldiers (ushanka for Russian soldiers may also fit but then we need a whole lot more soldiers on the field to reanimate the Soviet Army feeling ). The second tier armour helmet also felt way too big for poor soldiers and I was afraid they get head shot as soon as they leave the plane - but in strategy map the soldiers all look neat if skinny

- All the planes are beautiful except for the MIG which does not really show any character. This is probably a question of taste but I did feel that the plane is a more advanced craft then the default (I had the same feel for the lightning back in the original which was one of the reasons I have never built them if possible which is a shame since all tiers need to have there charm I think)

- Pilots in the plane would add to the reality, and supply sight even if all my men left the plane. It would also be strange for the commandos to fly the plane themselves.

Features:

- I was missing my tier1 armor after a while and thought it is a great feature if intentional that it wears off. If so, it would be great to see how much more it can take till it hits the trash bin and a new needs to be produced (amortization meter)

- Would be nice to see the alien position even in FOW once it has been spotted by my unit, since I need to comb the area to find the sneaky bastard each time it is a night missing which does take a while

- I realize the maps are preset but if at least the props can be moved around that would be great - I haven't noticed it though and felt I was playing exactly the same maps

- Auto load out would be nice for soldiers returning from medical care, else I always need to keep an eye on their equipment before each mission which I forgot in several cases and ended up with half my squad unarmed - though that had lead to a awesome mission where I needed to collect guns from fallen enemies and gradually turn the battle on them - it was sheer enjoyment as I blasted the last alien with a plasma rifle of his pal

- Experience for fighter pilots may even add more layer to the air combat and make it almost as important as the ground combat, where we could nurture the ace pilot and give him the very best plane and equipment (maybe get his own paint job on the plane but I am getting way off topic already )

AI:

- I had aliens camping in hard to reach positions several times, especially in the terror site shop in the top, where it is very difficult to get without losses (or bombard the store till I reach him crumbling under a bag of Cheetos)

- I found shotgun to be useless due to the Alien reaction fire (stun rod was also not too effective for the very same reason)

Overall the game did crash on me a few times but I felt the game has a lot to offer, and was already fun to battle on the air and on the ground. Next time I have to go without "Iron Man" mode though so I do not have to restart the whole map after CDT

[Sathra]

- In the "Alien interrogation" summary "We had some success" instead of " We has..."

No, its correct how it is. 'We has some success' is grammatically wrong.

[Chris]

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I've given them a read and it's always useful to know what newer players think on their first playthrough. I don't have enough time to respond to individual points right now but it's appreciated.

[Gauddlike]

No, its correct how it is. 'We has some success' is grammatically wrong.

The Xenopedia entry said 'We has some success', the post was suggesting that it should read differently.

The post wasn't clear which way round it was so I checked the Xenopedia entry.

From the context I would probably have said 'We have had some success'

[Sathra]

Ah, cool. I found myself wondering which one he meant after​ I typed my response.

[zolobolo]

Sorry for the confusion (have to work on my english language skills). In Research panel it reads: " We has some success" - I am mostly the last person to spot something like that, so when I did I opened up a boutle of wine and sliced up some of the finest chese around. It was all good fun

[Gauddlike]

What kind of cheese would that be?

[zolobolo]

That would be Edamer Gauddlike (sorry not Gauda). I always have a half a kilo in the fridge just in case of an alien invasion

[thothkins]

I always have a half a kilo in the fridge just in case of an alien invasion

Oh, how we mocked zolobolo for tales of alien invasion and cheese. But when the Giant Mice of Reticuli VI fell from the holes in the galactic skirting board, who distracted them? Our hero zolobolo, that's who...

I'm missing tier 1 armour at the start too. I recall the justification being, who would go up against aliens in coveralls. But here we are again

[mega karaczan]

My biggest issue with the game so far is the number of maps. I've had 4 missions in a row in the same environment (barn, crashed ufo to the NW of my dropship).

Kinda dissappointed they are not randomly generated.

I really hope that if the maps are supposed to be pre-generated, the release candidate is going to have an awful lot of them because otherwise the gameplay gets repetitive extremely fast (for a game with such potential).

Edit:

After having read some forum posts regarding maps I'm starting to think that maps repetitivenes in my playthrough might be some kind of a bug... Getting the same 4 maps in a row seems unlikely.

Edited April 25, 2013 by mega karaczan

[zolobolo]

After having read some forum posts regarding maps I'm starting to think that maps repetitivenes in my playthrough might be some kind of a bug... Getting the same 4 maps in a row seems unlikely.

Hi Mega, I think I read somewhere that the included maps are only placeholders for the beta, and a lot of the first maps needed to be sorted out because of various changes, but there will be more once the DEV team gets cracking on them. There is also a post on map creation guidelines for the community and the editor is included - I also get the same maps for very small UFO-s with a specific tile set, but it has been mentioned that once UFO-s get larger, there are more than 1-2 maps for each tile-set.

Speaking of maps I just now noticed that the interior of the buildings really do change within the same map, so all is not lost for randomization fans, and at least smaller props seem to have retained this function even if large tile sets will not be shuffled - keeping my fingers crossed that in the end they will

I have gazed my eyes upon the new images for the MIG and Hunter that came with the fix and they are first class! Hunter looks straight AAA material. I hope the MIG will also get a slightly revamped image in the hangar and in the outfit window as well to mach that bad-ass profile picture - it has thin lines and less playing with colors in comparison to the other craft which gives it less depth and more paper thin like appearance.

UFO soldiers got much less reaction shots with the reduced line-of sight, and ground battles more fun. Have to get to the stronger foes to see how the balance is effected, but if the AI will eventually coordinate its units in small fire teams it can eventually loose its Squad Sight training wheels as well

Edited April 25, 2013 by zolobolo

[Chris]

Mega - there's 12 possible maps for Light Scouts already, but it does seem that we need to add more before release.

[crusherven]

I agree. The problem seems to be that not all tilesets are equally probable. Depending on where you are, desert or farm might come up a lot. Winter is a little more rare. I see the two very small industrial maps a fair bit. Is there a non-winter woodsy map or a jungle? I haven't seen it if so.

[Sathra]

From what I've seen there isn't. It would be awesome if so. There's a couple of arctic maps with small forests and they are wonderful.

[DarkPonzu]

Can we please not have small squad sizes like in Firaxis's X-Com remake? I'd like to have at least as many guys as you could fit into a transport from the original X-Com game. I like the human wave tactic, overwhelm them with numbers and replace the losses later

[Sathra]

You do face off against smaller numbers of aliens though. And your troops are more accurate than the OG which cuts down the number of shots you need per alien

[crusherven]

I was just thinking about that last night, Sathra. I'd kinda like to see a little more variety in alien squad size. Even a small scout in the OG could have like 9 aliens. It was a lot of fun popping into a UFO and seeing like 5 sectoids staring at you. Or even that time you had three or four aliens in sight out in the wild. Any chance of increasing the range of numbers found in UFOs?

[Sathra]

I'd wait for the AI to be updated before we start increasing alien numbers. They're pretty unaggressive as of now due to reserving TU's for reaction fire all the time.

That said, there IS some variation in crew sizes but its pretty small. You don't really notice it till the bigger ships start arriving, and half the crew dies in the crash most of the time.

Landed ships can be pretty harsh as a result since you're facing a full crew.

[Moxar]

According to xml files (and assuming I understand them well), smallscouts count 4 aliens: 2 noncombt and 2 guards.

Of course, some of them might die during the crashes.