Skitso Posted December 14, 2024 Share Posted December 14, 2024 (edited) I don't have much time to play this right now, so only a few things that caught my eyes during the first 50 days. Operation points UI (supporters and currency) shouldn't be visible before the gameplay mechanic is activated after the Atlas base mission as such systems you can't interact with just confuse players. The system probably needs something in the tutorial too. Placing the very first base and the second I click the map, the game instantly slaps a popup with an image of a nuclear explosion on the screen. Just feels wrong, like "did I just do something wrong, did I blow a city up"? All icons for the Operations like "raise funds" "reduce tension" should be in a dropdown (or drop up in this case) dialog that appears by clicking the Operation Points currency box and not be always visible. Requesting exotic materials with operation points seems out of place at the very beginning of the game when even a specialist organization like Xenonauts with a super scientist have only just found them. Supporters need a mouse hover info so I don't need to click them to know what they do. I really like the fact that exotic materials now properly limit what I can manufacture at the beginning of the game New phase cutscenes are a very welcomed addition and a nice way to add more flair to the game. I just feel it would look better and more cohesive with a popup style like you have monthly funding screen for example. IMO the art style X2 has doesn't work that well full screen compared to a smaller pop up window. A quick mockup below. The two initial researches are quickly done and my laboratories are completely idle before I have more to research around day 20. Is this completely linear start of the research tree intentional? First month and a half feels perfect. I love it! Only my idle research and too little to study is something I'm not sure I like, but the Doomsday mechanic is great and the progression is really smooth. I also like that the cleaner progression is not visible any more. Yellow stripes for the obstructed selected unit is a good quality of life improvement, but the color used is not good. Edited December 14, 2024 by Skitso 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobobobo Posted December 14, 2024 Share Posted December 14, 2024 8 hours ago, Skitso said: The two initial researches are quickly done and my laboratories are completely idle before I have more to research around day 20. Is this completely linear start of the research tree intentional? Did you not get any UFO's/abduction missions? I got one like day 10. Once you do you get the magnetic weapon + corpses research + plot research, and alienium once you down a scout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted December 14, 2024 Author Share Posted December 14, 2024 35 minutes ago, Grobobobo said: Did you not get any UFO's/abduction missions? I got one like day 10. Once you do you get the magnetic weapon + corpses research + plot research, and alienium once you down a scout. Well I did skip the abduction mission as it's not loading properly at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobobobo Posted December 14, 2024 Share Posted December 14, 2024 That's probably why It loaded properly for me, I'm getting crashes in phase 2 instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warie_W00kie Posted December 14, 2024 Share Posted December 14, 2024 54 minutes ago, Skitso said: Well I did skip the abduction mission as it's not loading properly at the moment. I thought I was the only one with the adduction mission problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted December 15, 2024 Author Share Posted December 15, 2024 (edited) Ok, continuing my playthrough: When a research project is completed, it's odd to get a "new projects available" pop up first, then select a new research and only after that you get the research report from the completed project. Shouldn't it be the other way around? First the completed project report, after that you select a new one? I'd like to have a small notification when a new infiltrator has been recruited by the aliens. A small sound effect and flash the red icon or something. Geoscape UI needs to give some feedback for the player to know when and how much the panic levels rise. Flash the increasing red panic bar brighter (with a sound effect) and keep the added part brighter for a while. Clicking an infiltrated supporter should show the negative effects it causes and not the positives it could cause if you hired them. I'd like to be able to select and deselect aircraft by clicking their images in the launch control. Engineering screen currently shows how many of each item I currently have unequipped. Wouldn't it be more relevant to know how many I have them in total? I know I've criticized earlier how stupid it is to see the exact percentage of the cleaner progress, but now that the progress percentage is gone, revealing the cleaner base doesn't feel nearly as satisfying as before. Like I feel I lack any agency in the finding process and it just feels like a scripted thing to happen. Also, as there's been no cleaner activity in like a month at the time the base is revealed, it doesn't feel like an achievement like before to get rid of the cleaners. I liked the more organic and interactive progress cleaner arc had before. Cleaner HQ AI is oddly aggressive. When I reached the command room, there were only 2 psyons left. Even the bald VIP guys charged towards me across the whole level. Symbiote corpses can't be autopsied but on the other hand they are not counted as junk either. I enjoyed the two tier corpse analyses more compared to what we have now. It felt nice to be able to have a quick small reward as soon as you've killed few of each enemy type. Tactical camera returning to it's previous position after AI turn is more annoying than useful. Usually I want to react to the stuff that happened on the AI turn, not go to somewhere where I did something on my last turn. Please revert this to the old system or make it a toggle. Some sound effect volumes are off: first aid and skyranger launch too silent. Desert ambiance (wind howling) too loud. Day 100. Really enjoying the game and having a great time, despite some crashes and bugs. I'd say the overall progression is now a tad too fast. I do enjoy the tension and high stakes that the faster progression currently offers, but getting one or two more cleaner missions and scout crash sites (only saw one scout) before having androns walk over me in a destroyer retaliation mission crash site would have been welcomed. Edited December 15, 2024 by Skitso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ih8california Posted December 15, 2024 Share Posted December 15, 2024 I thought the P2/aliens revealing themselves occurred way to early (day 57 for me). I would have anticipated this being a post-CleanerHQ base assault. Unless it is intended that the cleaners are still working in the background to get humanity to surrender?? and P3 would be after cleaner-hq base assault when they go full invasion?? Just spitballing b/c my game has been limited by freezes on certain missions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaBchRog Posted December 16, 2024 Share Posted December 16, 2024 Is the funding in Milestone 5 suppose to be very low? Its like I barely have neough funding to maintain one base let alone try and expand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventuswings Posted December 16, 2024 Share Posted December 16, 2024 (edited) 13 hours ago, vaBchRog said: Is the funding in Milestone 5 suppose to be very low? Its like I barely have neough funding to maintain one base let alone try and expand. Have you reached phase 2 yet? Additional funding becomes available then, and selling junk helps. I like delegation mechanic, but I wonder if it could be indirect penalty that allow players to make decision according to their comfort level by increasing mission risk (such as alien stat bonus that scales with more mission, representing alien's growing familiarity with crashlanding scenarios) rather than direct panic penalty. Edited December 16, 2024 by ventuswings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakiii Posted December 16, 2024 Share Posted December 16, 2024 5 hours ago, ventuswings said: I like delegation mechanic, but I wonder if it could be indirect penalty that allow players to make decision according to their comfort level by increasing mission risk (such as alien stat bonus that scales with more mission, representing alien's growing familiarity with crashlanding scenarios) rather than direct panic penalty. I don´t think punishing players for playing the core of the game is a good idea anyway. I would instead reward the players who "share" crash sites with the local government a bit more and give them not only cash but some portion of alenium/alloys too. The solution based on your reaction time suggested on discord was also interesting. https://discord.com/channels/702822278148390983/1134121337544245248/threads/1317956059767509092 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted December 16, 2024 Author Share Posted December 16, 2024 I really think the doomsday phase is over too quickly and changes to the cleaner arc are for the worse. The whole doomsday mechanic is great and combining it to what we had before (regarding the cleaners) would have been great. Especially if earning operation points was somehow tied to completed missions or side objectives (computer hacking?) instead of flat daily income. Current cleaner arc feels way too linear with seemingly no player agency. Not sure how the cleaner progression system works under the hood, but it feels fully scripted and tied to the game calendar. This all ties into my top 1 issue of the MS5, which is that the game feels too rushed. Less cleaner missions and crash sites mean less xp and this causes difficulty to ramp up fast. New tech comes available so fast that I've barely even had time to test something when it's already becoming obsolete and every new mission is against new tougher aliens. Let the invasion simmer a bit from time to time and allow players to enjoy their new tech against lower tier enemies without penalizing them from playing the game (crash site delegation). 25 panic per crash site is harsh! Maybe make in incremental for subsequent crash sites like 10 > 20 > 30 or make it cost operation points instead of panic? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warie_W00kie Posted December 16, 2024 Share Posted December 16, 2024 16 minutes ago, Skitso said: 25 panic per crash site is harsh! Maybe make in incremental for subsequent crash sites like 10 > 20 > 30 or make it cost operation points instead of panic? Are you able to see the panic go up and down during the playthrough? Mine is stuck at 50. While I really like many of the additions on MS5, I just can't wrap my head around this one. Battlescape is a core mechanic of the game and the challenging combat a big reason why this game is fun, why punish the player for this? It doesn't make sense narrative wise either; the Xenonauts program is funding nations' solution to the alien threat, why would they compete with it this way? Keeping resource away from Xenonauts is what the Cleaners and the aliens want! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakiii Posted December 16, 2024 Share Posted December 16, 2024 1 hour ago, Skitso said: I really think the doomsday phase is over too quickly and changes to the cleaner arc are for the worse. The whole doomsday mechanic is great and combining it to what we had before (regarding the cleaners) would have been great. Especially if earning operation points was somehow tied to completed missions or side objectives (computer hacking?) instead of flat daily income. Yeah it would be a nice idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 16, 2024 Share Posted December 16, 2024 3 hours ago, Rakiii said: I don´t think punishing players for playing the core of the game is a good idea anyway. I would instead reward the players who "share" crash sites with the local government a bit more and give them not only cash but some portion of alenium/alloys too. The solution based on your reaction time suggested on discord was also interesting. https://discord.com/channels/702822278148390983/1134121337544245248/threads/1317956059767509092 2 hours ago, Warie_W00kie said: Are you able to see the panic go up and down during the playthrough? Mine is stuck at 50. While I really like many of the additions on MS5, I just can't wrap my head around this one. Battlescape is a core mechanic of the game and the challenging combat a big reason why this game is fun, why punish the player for this? It doesn't make sense narrative wise either; the Xenonauts program is funding nations' solution to the alien threat, why would they compete with it this way? Keeping resource away from Xenonauts is what the Cleaners and the aliens want! The reasons were outlined in the patch notes. Lots of players don't want to fight every single crash site because they find it repetitive and grindy, and really there's no way to balance their experience against that of people who want to fight every crash site. Either I force them to fight every single mission by setting cash and resource prices based on everyone fighting 4+ crash sites of each type, or I make the game incredibly easy for everyone who does get all the extra resources for the fighting all the crash sites. This is the only way I can see to split the difference. This is especially true given how many people are saying I should add more UFOs to the game, or make it longer - a campaign is already at least 29 missions if you capture each UFO type twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gG-Unknown Posted December 17, 2024 Share Posted December 17, 2024 44 minutes ago, Chris said: a campaign is already at least 29 missions if you capture each UFO type twice. it means - mission per hour plus time spend on globe creates gameplay about 40 hours long. Perhaps, make game difficulty linked to lenght of game. It is expected that players who choose easy difficulty are new to the genre and want to see all quickly. On the other side, player who choose Commander diff, wants to fight tooth and nails for 100 hours per campaign. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 17, 2024 Share Posted December 17, 2024 In the long term I might add a mode that removes delegation and significantly increases the cost of everything, but there's not too much point thinking about that until the "standard" balance is locked in. There'll be way too many difficulty settings / game setting combinations to balance against otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobobobo Posted December 17, 2024 Share Posted December 17, 2024 6 hours ago, gG-Unknown said: On the other side, player who choose Commander diff, wants to fight tooth and nails for 100 hours per campaign That isn't true - just because i want the game to be hard doesn't mean that i want it to be grindy and repetitive. I play exclusively on commander and like the delegation mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warie_W00kie Posted December 17, 2024 Share Posted December 17, 2024 (edited) 7 hours ago, Chris said: The reasons were outlined in the patch notes. I'm not criticizing the reasons, I am criticizing the solution and how it's implemented right now. 7 hours ago, Chris said: Lots of players don't want to fight every single crash site because they find it repetitive and grindy, and really there's no way to balance their experience against that of people who want to fight every crash site. Either I force them to fight every single mission by setting cash and resource prices based on everyone fighting 4+ crash sites of each type, or I make the game incredibly easy for everyone who does get all the extra resources for the fighting all the crash sites. This is the only way I can see to split the difference. This is especially true given how many people are saying I should add more UFOs to the game, or make it longer - a campaign is already at least 29 missions if you capture each UFO type twice. This is the same issue in Xenonauts 1 more than 10 years ago. If I remember correctly, the solution is not perfect but worked out. On the latest MS4 build, I was under the impression that the pacing and the gameplay was pretty on point. This just seem like a complete change of direction from "We're almost to the end game guys!" to "clearing a crash site has the same consequence as ignoring a terror mission". I'm all for making the game less grindy but so far the only thing this mechanic did for me is hit F4 and wait for the next thing I get to do. Maybe I'll see the point of this when more improvements/adjustments come along, but right now I''m not a fan. I'm really digging the changes to Sebilian and Mantids so far: the LMG / gas grenade and Symbiote launcher compliment their fighting style while creating another dynamic to tactical combat. Looking forward to end game! Edited December 17, 2024 by Warie_W00kie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted December 17, 2024 Author Share Posted December 17, 2024 31 minutes ago, Grobobobo said: I play exclusively on commander and like the delegation mechanic. I want to make it clear: I also like the delegation mechanic and it's undoubly needed. It's just needs some tweaking. And it's tied to the progression speed issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 17, 2024 Share Posted December 17, 2024 1 hour ago, Warie_W00kie said: I'm not criticizing the reasons, I am criticizing the solution and how it's implemented right now. This is the same issue in Xenonauts 1 more than 10 years ago. If I remember correctly, the solution is not perfect but worked out. On the latest MS4 build, I was under the impression that the pacing and the gameplay was pretty on point. This just seem like a complete change of direction from "We're almost to the end game guys!" to "clearing a crash site has the same consequence as ignoring a terror mission". I'm all for making the game less grindy but so far the only thing this mechanic did for me is hit F4 and wait for the next thing I get to do. Maybe I'll see the point of this when more improvements/adjustments come along, but right now I''m not a fan. I'm really digging the changes to Sebilian and Mantids so far: the LMG / gas grenade and Symbiote launcher compliment their fighting style while creating another dynamic to tactical combat. Looking forward to end game! I think MS4 probably felt largely on point for you given your playstyle - most of the balancing feedback comes from the more hardcore players who tend to hang out on the forums and discord, so previously the game was balanced towards fighting lots of crash sites. I don't think it was necessarily as enjoyable for people in the other camp, but we do need to bear them in mind too. Having pondered it a little, I do think one of the suggestions @Skitso made above might be an improvement - changing the penalty from Panic to Operations Points, so it's effectively another "purchase" with your free strategy points rather than inflicting Panic. Not sure if that'll make you feel any better about it, however, as it's still a form of punishment. Yeah, this problem has been around for a very long time. It's more pronounced in X2 though because the game is quite a bit longer, and X1 was essentially balanced around the idea of doing 1-2 Crash Sites per UFO anyway - fighting more than that did make the game easier than it should have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted December 17, 2024 Author Share Posted December 17, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chris said: Having pondered it a little, I do think one of the suggestions @Skitso made above might be an improvement - changing the penalty from Panic to Operations Points, so it's effectively another "purchase" with your free strategy points rather than inflicting Panic. Not sure if that'll make you feel any better about it, however, as it's still a form of punishment. Yeah, this problem has been around for a very long time. It's more pronounced in X2 though because the game is quite a bit longer, and X1 was essentially balanced around the idea of doing 1-2 Crash Sites per UFO anyway - fighting more than that did make the game easier than it should have been. Just make sure there's enough ufo's available to generate crash and landing sites so there's a proper choice for the player. I'm not sure if I've just had bad luck, but the two campaign starts I've had with MS5, I've only had 1 scout in each before destroyers started spawning. Also, no landing sites whatsoever. Edited December 17, 2024 by Skitso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warie_W00kie Posted December 17, 2024 Share Posted December 17, 2024 53 minutes ago, Chris said: I think MS4 probably felt largely on point for you given your playstyle - most of the balancing feedback comes from the more hardcore players who tend to hang out on the forums and discord, so previously the game was balanced towards fighting lots of crash sites. I don't think it was necessarily as enjoyable for people in the other camp, but we do need to bear them in mind too. Having pondered it a little, I do think one of the suggestions @Skitso made above might be an improvement - changing the penalty from Panic to Operations Points, so it's effectively another "purchase" with your free strategy points rather than inflicting Panic. Not sure if that'll make you feel any better about it, however, as it's still a form of punishment. Yeah, this problem has been around for a very long time. It's more pronounced in X2 though because the game is quite a bit longer, and X1 was essentially balanced around the idea of doing 1-2 Crash Sites per UFO anyway - fighting more than that did make the game easier than it should have been. I appreciate your acknowledgement on my perspective Chris. MS5 is going to be a hell of a ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alienkiller Posted December 17, 2024 Share Posted December 17, 2024 I´m not so far yet, but the 2 first Missuins (ATLAS-Base & Abduction) worked fine. I´m still in the first Month, but noticed 2 Problems. 1. In the Abduction Mission after Turn 4 the Saves are doing an CTD. Up to Turn 3 all works fully normal. 2. The third Mission (Convoi-Ambush against the Cleaners) load to 90%, then still loading for more then 10 Minutes. That´s what I have noticed. The Translations for German have here & there some Translation-Bugs, which have no Influence to the Game. All in All I can say, that the Milestone 5 is the biggest Step in the Game and after the Problems in Milestone 5 get solved with including the missing remaining Milestone 5 Contents / Features it gives an great stable Basegame-Version for the Final Basegame-Version. The Devs, Freelancers and Founders (Betatesters) are doing an great Job. Xenonauts 2 have an big Potential and I hope that we will see Add-On-DLCs after the final Basegame-Version is ready and show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobobobo Posted December 17, 2024 Share Posted December 17, 2024 6 hours ago, Skitso said: It's just needs some tweaking. And it's tied to the progression speed issue. Well, yeah, current implementation is definitely too harsh, 25 panic is quite a lot of monthly funding, so you basically never ever want to do a UFO ever again. The good news is that you still don't really have a resource shortage even if you do that. I think a better implementation would be simply to give a massive penalty to rewards (like the funding nation forces you to "donate" the materials after the crash) so taking the bounty will give you money on par, but without the risk of your soldiers dying (but if you want to just kill aliens you aren't getting punished, it's just riskier and maybe slightly less efficient). Don't think operation points would be a good penalty, since 100 op points is like 40 alloys, and crash sites give way more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobobobo Posted December 17, 2024 Share Posted December 17, 2024 Let's say that after a crash the funding nation confiscates half of the UFO resource yield + All alien weapons. You still get to keep corpses and captives, so it should be mostly on par with the bounty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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