Uprated armour types

[Max_Caine]

Following discussion on the beta threads about armour, I thought I'd uprate some of the later types of armour.

Changes made

Buzzard armour

Buzzard armour now has the same protective capabilities as Jackal armour

Buzzard armour visual range boosted (1 less than Caesans, 2 more than Sebillians)

Tier 3 armour

Energy armour rating boosted (heavy armour in particular can shrug off plasma rifles, absorb Heavy Plasma and even take a shot from Sathra's personal nemesis without dying)

Scout armour type sight range boosted to equivalent of Caesan.

Here's the (updated) file

Edited April 12, 2013 by Max_Caine

[GizmoGomez]

What are the armors like initially? Like, how is buzzard in relation to jackal?

[Max_Caine]

Jackal's armour ratings verses energy (which is the important one) is 25, Buzzard's is 18 for energy, which means that anyone in a Buzzard suit will die die die if hit by a plasma rifle. As far as sight ranges, Buzzard has a sight range of 16, Wolf has a sight range of 15, which didn't seem adequate - if you're going to give up the protection of Wolf, you need some form of compensation!

The tier 3 scout armour has the highest sight range, which is one less tile than a Caesan. Both tier 3 armours' armour energy rating is the same as wolf armour.

[Shima]

Can Harridans se farther then Caesans? Or do you match your enemies with sentinel armour (with your fix)?

[Max_Caine]

Harridans can see further than any other alien type (further than Caesans) but they are a support alien class so you see far fewer of them than the main alien classes. About half the alien classes can see just slightly further than humans which includes Seblllians and Androns (in fact less than humans in starting armour!) so the armour is adjusted verses the types of aliens most likely to be encountered. This keeps the super-specialised (and fragile) Harridan a dangerous opponent.

[Shima]

Ok, I'm trying out that custom xml and after one hit from heavy plasma took out 31hp from my predator guy. It's better but still not enough in my opinion.

Edit: Aaand one hit from plasma cannon still vaporized him. Hm. Seems like I must have done something wrong.

^{Something like stepping in front of a sebillian armed with plasma cannon.}

Edited April 12, 2013 by Shima

[Lt_Parsons]

"Laboratory tests suggest an armour penetration of at least 15 inches of normal steel (precise measurements not possible; we ran out of steel before the projectile ran out of power), enough to destroy virtually any conventional vehicle in the world in a single shot."

- Xenopedia, Alien Plasma Cannon article

[Shima]

The Predator offers much that should impress you, but the level of protection is chief amongst them. The main armour plates are formed from hardened alien alloys and nearly an inch thick, whilst the joints use layers of thinner plates that slide over one another to offer both flexibility and strength - at its weakest point, the armour is still a centimetre thick. At this point, conventional measures of ballistic protection are entirely redundant; so by way of context, the Predator could wade through molten lava or withstand a one megaton nuclear blast with little more than superficial damage.

Much like an actual tank, a Predator will require infantry support on a mission if it is to be effective.

Well, if I'm able to withstand a nuclear blast without any considerable damage I should be able to at least barely survive supeconcentrated plasma bolt.

[Max_Caine]

Hm. That did actually work in my tests. I wonder why it isn't now...

[Shima]

Maybe I received a critical hit or something (if that's possible). I will test it further.

[Max_Caine]

Okay, I know where I went wrong. The predator I used took a shot, but checking afterwards it was outside the operational range for a PCannon, so damage had begun to drop off, and I forgot that a random damage element is added to the fixed element.

So!

Changed the armour rating for the preadator upwards again. Your solider is now better protected than a tank. Plasma rifle shots should splash harmlessly off it, Heavy plasma should do on average about 15-20pts of damage, and a squaddie in predator armour should (now) be able to take a PCannon shot.

[Gauddlike]

Alien plasma cannon do 120 damage with 30 mitigation, there is also a 20% variance on damage.

So potentially 144 damage and ignores the first 30 points of resistance.

Assuming a soldier has 61 health your armour would need 114 resist if my maths holds up.

That would leave you on 1 HP from a max damage hit.

[Shima]

Okay, I know where I went wrong. The predator I used took a shot, but checking afterwards it was outside the operational range for a PCannon, so damage had begun to drop off, and I forgot that a random damage element is added to the fixed element.

So!

Changed the armour rating for the preadator upwards again. Your solider is now better protected than a tank. Plasma rifle shots should splash harmlessly off it, Heavy plasma should do on average about 15-20pts of damage, and a squaddie in predator armour should (now) be able to take a PCannon shot.

I like the sound of that! Looking forward to experiment with this once I have a bit of time.

Gauddlike: Where can I find formulas for these calculations?

Edited April 13, 2013 by Shima

[Max_Caine]

(In Gauddlike's voice) The formula is here.

[Gauddlike]

Should point out though that the formula Chris added to the wiki states that the random damage number says -10 to +10 but in the config.xml file it is listed as 20 so I assumed 20% rather than 10% bonus.

[Shima]

Thanks guys!

[Max_Caine]

The problem is striking a balance.

If the predator armour is set against a max strike PCannon then nothing else can touch it and the aliens have to try and wear it down, which is a chance they won't get because by the time you get to predator armour, you're toting some serious firepower to go with it! Especially as predators ignore the heavy weappon penalty, so if you stick your commander jonlan in it, you may as well start making Arnie quotes when stomping along in it!

[Shima]

That's why I suggested to bump it's cost up significantly as well so you can afford just one, maaybe two per squad.

[Gauddlike]

Remember as well that repeated hits wear down armour so that eventually weaker weapons will be able to penetrate it.

I am not a fan of using the financial cost as a major balancing factor though.

It is a very weak balance as it could be very different in two different games.

For example if you shoot down two landing ships with minimal damage but I leave them smoking wrecks, or they escape, or I lose a fighter etc, at the same point in the game then our finances could be very different when construction of this armour type is available.

That means for you the balance of cost is much less of an issue than it is for me.

Basically the balance shifts in favour of the armour for you and against it for me.

The armour should really be balanced against other items, such as weapon damage, sight ranges and so on first before cost is factored in.

[GizmoGomez]

Agreed, cost isn't the best balancing factor. I do like the idea of having my own super-mecha-death-armor, though.

[Shima]

Well the armour has terrible sight range and is quite limited in it's weapon choice. Maybe it could cut down wearers TU's a bit, since it's unwieldy and all that. But if it isn't much sturdier than all other armours, what's the point in using it?

[Belmakor]

Well the armour has terrible sight range and is quite limited in it's weapon choice. Maybe it could cut down wearers TU's a bit, since it's unwieldy and all that. But if it isn't much sturdier than all other armours, what's the point in using it?

Good point. You could make it really heavy so that you are pretty much unable to put it on a rookie (as he would have so little TUs). That way its going to be limited to your top soldiers of which you well likely only be fielding 2 or 3 per mission anyway (assuming that the life expectancy of your guys is like 6-7 missions).

[Shima]

Yeah, I like the idea of veterans-only armour. But you should be able shoot one volley with your veteran even after moving a bit (so the removal of machine gun penalty still has some sense).

[GizmoGomez]

Good point. You could make it really heavy so that you are pretty much unable to put it on a rookie (as he would have so little TUs). That way its going to be limited to your top soldiers of which you well likely only be fielding 2 or 3 per mission anyway (assuming that the life expectancy of your guys is like 6-7 missions).

I've actually kept all of my troops alive so far (into november, two terror missions, plus multiple scouts and even a corvette). Well, one died once because I got cocky, but he was revived after the mission, so he didn't really die, right?

[Max_Caine]

There's a simple test.

Is he pale, gaunt, with a tendency to moan and prefers to dress in white? Does the radio stutter when he's close by, do CCTV camera fail to pick him up and are spirtualists attracted to the area? If the answer is no to most of these, then he didn't die.