StellarRat Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) I find extra LOS really annoying in open maps. If there are long gaps between cover, one or two aliens can be lurking outside of my LOS giving squadsight to everyone on the map, and some of those potshots from screens away are pretty accurate. If I send people running around out of cover to try and spot the spotters they're vulnerable to reaction fire. I do think the alien sight ranges should be adjusted.That could be fixed by implementing my accuracy formula. A couple of us (at least) think the weapons are way too good at extreme ranges right now. See the Shot Scatter thread here:http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/4275-Shot-Miss-Scattering?p=56806&viewfull=1#post56806 With the current system it is quite possible to hit consistently with some weapons from completely across a map. Edited April 11, 2013 by StellarRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assoonasitis Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 That could be fixed by implementing my accuracy formula. A couple of us (at least) think the weapons are way too good at extreme ranges right now. See the Shot Scatter thread here:http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/4275-Shot-Miss-Scattering?p=56806&viewfull=1#post56806 With the current system it is quite possible to hit consistently with some weapons from completely across a map. Aliens should not connect with 2/3 plasma pistol shots from outside visual range. That is, pardon my French, utter horseshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Aliens should not connect with 2/3 plasma pistol shots from outside visual range. That is, pardon my French, utter horseshit.Yes, that is bad. Again, IMO the current accuracy formula as stated in the Wiki is flawed that's why this happens. A sniper rifle can shoot anyone anywhere with good accuracy right now. That is realistic given the ground scale, but very wrong from a game play standpoint. Same with some of the alien weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 The carnage aliens can inflict on you is a combination of bugs, shared squad sight and having incredibly accurate weapons. I boosted them a lot when the aliens were still really stupid to make them more of a threat, but now they're utterly deadly...particularly when they were able to shoot through solid objects in the shroud with them. We'll have better balance in the next build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 We'll have better balance in the next build.I think you should consider the accuracy formula I came up with. It's not a big change codingwise and should fix several problems. Like super long accuracy (unless intended), short range inaccuracy and damage not matching accuracy. I ran the numbers on a spreadsheet and it look pretty good to me. Most people wouldn't notice much of a change under normal conditions i.e. it won't suddenly unbalance all the weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
embrace_Destruction Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 UPDATE Tried to do a video screen capture, but it's not recording properly. Had a situation where I encountered an alien very close to the dropship, and my troops dispatched him as they piled out. Next turn I started manuvering them, and they started taking fire from enemies very far away, and there was no symbol on-screen (the red and yellow circles with the 'Gray' face in them that appear on the right edge of the screen) indicating that my forces were within LOS with the enemy. So is it confirmed that aliens can have greater LOS than the human soldiers? Or is there some sort of glitch that once forces are spotted, they remain visible even if the unit that discovered them is killed or moves out of LOS (i.e. the fog of war does't re-conceal units even if LOS is broken)? Because other than this (and the fact the game crashes on me every 20 minutes) I really like Xenonauts from what I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 They do have a longer sight range. The only think that can out-see aliens is the Hunter I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erutan Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Yeah, having the hunter really helps on the wide open maps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusherven Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 embrace_Destruction, the other thing you're seeing is that aliens are using their buddy as a spotter. You know how once you see an alien all your men can try to shoot 'em? The aliens can do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 One fix that springs to mind is to limit reaction fire to a range dependant on the weapon whereas at the moment it seems to be possible on anyone that can be seen by your squad, same for the aliens (based on my own observations, nothing solid). If reaction fire was limited to weapon optimum range for example (with maybe a bonus to some types like pistols?) then spotters would still be useful for locating and offensive engagement but reaction fire would be more of a defensive action when the enemy gets within range. The fog of war not instantly re-covering once the sighting unit is dead or moves on would also be a problem here. If that is fixed then taking out the spotter would provide instant relief from long range fire, at least until another one comes forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I find extra LOS really annoying in open maps. If there are long gaps between cover, one or two aliens can be lurking outside of my LOS giving squadsight to everyone on the map, and some of those potshots from screens away are pretty accurate. If I send people running around out of cover to try and spot the spotters they're vulnerable to reaction fire. I do think the alien sight ranges should be adjusted. Do smoke grenades work? Can't you advance using them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erutan Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 They're useful situationally, but you're still running out in the dark hoping you'll spot someone in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTuninator Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) Reaction fire is so nasty that I've had an entire squad vaped exiting the Chinook-and this on a Month 1 terror mission! Weapons that one-hit-kill with lethal accuracy from extreme range are, needless to say, problematic when they're the standard-issue grunt weapon. Aliens need some nerfs hard, which is why we are still in beta. Combat's still fun, and I am all for a hard game, but aliens get so much reaction fire right now, and it's so accurate, that things are a bit silly. Glad to hear it's gonna be sorted out! Edited April 20, 2013 by TheTuninator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bansheedragon Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I have noticed that alien reaction fire as well, and find it damn near impossible to do anything without them shooting at me. And in most cases they hit my soldiers as well, usually killing them. Hell I even had the aliens do reaction fire a couple time only from me clicking on a soldier to select him. I once had an alien shoot a 3 shot burst right into my Chinook as soon as one of my soldiers took a single step, killing 3 soldiers in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 If shots are passing through Chinook walls, that's a bug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 It might be worthwhile looking at early alien/human sight ranges to put this discussion into perspective. Caesans have a sight range of 19 tiles. Sebillians have a sight range of 16 tiles. All aliens have exactly the same sight range regardless of class. Humans in basic armour have a sight range of 18 tiles Humans in Jackal armour have a sight range of 15 tiles Hunters have a sight range of 20 tiles. Therefore: Caesans will always get the drop on humans. Sebillians will always get the drop on Jackal armoured aliens. Currently, the securest way to approach any mission is to be behind and flanking the Hunter, who can safely scout out aliens without initiating reaction fire. Once an alien is spotted, all firepower must be directed on the alien to prevent it from calling in your position and your guys then receiving incoming fire from its buddies. The Hunter must always exit the Chinook first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) I disagree with that last part. I'd say that having a guy with a rifle or a shotgun (or carbine) looking outside the chinook via the side doors, and making sure the coast is clear is often a better strategy then having the hunter barrel out of the chinook first. I did that a few times, moved my hunter first, and almost every time there was a guy with heavy plasma sitting there, and shooting my hunter almost to bits with reaction fire. If you peek out the side doors first, then you can make sure that's not going to happen, and then you send the hunter out. However, don't move more than the tile outside the door, because that can be dangerous. Edited April 21, 2013 by GizmoGomez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bansheedragon Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 If shots are passing through Chinook walls, that's a bug. No not through the walls, it was just as the mission started and the alien was outside my visual range. 3 shots came in through the open rear end of the Chinook and killed 3 of my troops before the first could take more than a single step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bansheedragon Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 The Hunter must always exit the Chinook first. And how do you make that happen? No matter how I go about it, the hunter is always in the rear of my Chinook, as such I have to move all 6 troops out before I can move the hunter. I aways hated having the hunter in the rear, but I just cant seem to get it in the front no matter how much I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 It's not immediately obvious, but if you go into the aircrafts section, there's a tab for dropships. If you click on that, you can then rearrange the deployment of your troops in the dropship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 But only if the dropship is fully fuelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
embrace_Destruction Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 It might be worthwhile looking at early alien/human sight ranges to put this discussion into perspective.Caesans have a sight range of 19 tiles. Sebillians have a sight range of 16 tiles. All aliens have exactly the same sight range regardless of class. Humans in basic armour have a sight range of 18 tiles Humans in Jackal armour have a sight range of 15 tiles Hunters have a sight range of 20 tiles. I feel like I've been spotted by Sebillians before my soldiers in Basic Armor have LOS And I don't know about you guys, but reaction fire it totally busted in my game. My soldiers have used reaction fire a total of once (and yes I set it on the slider bar all the time) As an experiment I lined up 5 guys about 6-7 tiles from a Reaper, set them all on reaction fire and ended the turn. Reaper ran forward and infected 3 of them on his turn, nobody shot at him. My Hunter doesn't use reaction fire either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusherven Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I disagree with that last part. I'd say that having a guy with a rifle or a shotgun (or carbine) looking outside the chinook via the side doors, and making sure the coast is clear is often a better strategy then having the hunter barrel out of the chinook first. I did that a few times, moved my hunter first, and almost every time there was a guy with heavy plasma sitting there, and shooting my hunter almost to bits with reaction fire. If you peek out the side doors first, then you can make sure that's not going to happen, and then you send the hunter out. However, don't move more than the tile outside the door, because that can be dangerous. That awkward moment when you confidently moved your shiny new HWP out the Skyranger, only to have it collapse in a spray of plasma. "Oh, it's going to be one of THOSE terror missions." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 embrace_Destruction, just to eliminate possibilities, what were your troopers armed with? Precision rifles, LMGs and Rocket launchers all have a reaction fire malus, whereas the rifle, pistol and shotgun have a reaction bonus (most pronounced with the shotgun and pistol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Why do aliens have such looooonng lines of sight? Better to see you with my dear. Ok, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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