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Why do aliens have such looooonng lines of sight?


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Noob here, just pre-ordered and downloaded the Beta, and I don't understand why the aliens can see for so far.

My guys are constantly getting shot at by aliens deep in the fog of war, even the reptilian aliens who have crappy eyesight according to their codex entry.

I have soldiers getting hit with reaction fire out of the darkness, and it takes several turns to run my guys close enough to even see the enemy!

I thought that the free movement turn aliens get after discovery in the new XCOM was annoying, but this feels downright frustrating.

Is this a glitch, or is the game supposed to be this way. If so,why?

UPDATE: added more details, see page 4

Edited by embrace_Destruction
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The unerring accuracy and endless reaction fire are undoubtedly due to be adjusted, as it's a pain. All part of the fun of balancing in Beta (candidate) mode. Hopefully the frustration won;t outweigh the enjoyment in the meantime. Types thothkins who just swore as reaction fire killed three troops in a single turn...

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Noob here, just pre-ordered and downloaded the Beta, and I don't understand why the aliens can see for so far.

My guys are constantly getting shot at by aliens deep in the fog of war, even the reptilian aliens who have crappy eyesight according to their codex entry.

I have soldiers getting hit with reaction fire out of the darkness, and it takes several turns to run my guys close enough to even see the enemy!

I thought that the free movement turn aliens get after discovery in the new XCOM was annoying, but this feels downright frustrating.

Is this a glitch, or is the game supposed to be this way. If so,why?

If ANY alien sees your guys then ALL aliens can target you. The same is true of your soldiers. Any soldier can spot for the others. However, there is a problem right now where the aliens can fire through objects that should block their shots. That's probably adding to your confusion. :) That's probably why you're getting so much out of the "dark" long range fire. Once there is stuff blocking their shots that will make things much better. Edited by StellarRat
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I do think there's something wrong with all the reaction fire. The aliens get loads of it, and they are very, very good shots with it. You can barely move without it triggering reaction fire sometimes. Xenonauts, needless to say, get practically none.
Well, you do get a lot of shots with a pistol and their pistols are a lot better than what the Xenonauts carry at first. It's also possible the aliens have better reaction stats. I haven't even looked at that though. I'm reserving most of my balance opinions until the LOF bugs are fixed. The grenades are nerfed too right now. I've only really commenting on things I know are probably wrong. Like demo charges being under-powered.
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Thanks for the quick replies everyone

If ANY alien sees your guys then ALL aliens can target you. The same is true of your soldiers. Any soldier can spot for the others. However, there is a problem right now where the aliens can fire through objects that should block their shots. That's probably adding to your confusion. :)

Oh I forgot about that, that certainly explains some of it. I don't remember in particularly if I've been shot at without any aliens in sight, or if they appear to be shooting through walls though, I'll pay more attention.

It just felt particularly frustrating because I was on an open desert map with very little cover, and it was just a slaughter. You know how it feels in an FPS when you get nailed from across the map every time you spawn? It felt sort of like that lol.

I do enjoy the game, even though I'm terrible (I really like turn based strategy, but I suck at them)

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Thanks for the quick replies everyone

Oh I forgot about that, that certainly explains some of it. I don't remember in particularly if I've been shot at without any aliens in sight, or if they appear to be shooting through walls though, I'll pay more attention.

It just felt particularly frustrating because I was on an open desert map with very little cover, and it was just a slaughter. You know how it feels in an FPS when you get nailed from across the map every time you spawn? It felt sort of like that lol.

I do enjoy the game, even though I'm terrible (I really like turn based strategy, but I suck at them)

Leave several soldiers in the back with clear lines of fire to cover the battlefield. Send just a one guy out to spot and only move him one square at a time. When you see an alien your guys in the back can take him out. The military term is "bounding overwatch." Then you move your back guys up while the spotter(s) cover them and repeat. The best soldiers to use for overwatch are the heavy weapons carriers (sniper rifle, machinegun, rocket launcher.) Edited by StellarRat
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As it is aliens can ALWAYS reaction fire. No matter what weapon they carry and it is very accurate. Add to how troopers in any kind of armour have less sight range than the aliens and it can be quite infuriating. Especially with the perfect accuracy of the plasma cannons. Or as I like the call them "Vape Cannons"

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As it is aliens can ALWAYS reaction fire. No matter what weapon they carry and it is very accurate. Add to how troopers in any kind of armour have less sight range than the aliens and it can be quite infuriating. Especially with the perfect accuracy of the plasma cannons. Or as I like the call them "Vape Cannons"
Can always reaction fire because the AI reserves action points or because there is a bug? Or is that just the way they are supposed to work?
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I think they reserve the action points. Not actually sure though, although they don't move much so I guess they do reserve it.
Well, that is some pretty smart AI programming then. It's only going to get worse as the AI is still under construction. But, I really don't think I'll have too many issues dealing with them at least at first since I'm doing pretty well with them being able to shoot through just about anything right now.
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They do reserve the APs. The aliens' stat for testing for reaction fire isn't actually that super-awesome. Assuming that a reaction shot is based on a d100 (as the reflex stat has a cap of 100), most early-game solider-type Caesans and Sebllians should get a reaction shot in every 1 in 2 tests, whereas a non-com should get a reaction shot off every 2 in 5. That's about the same for squaddies. Unfortunately, we can't really test squaddie reactions because most aliens run away rather than run towards or shoot back (unless someone wants to replace the contents of UFOs with Reapers?). What might make it look like they always get a shot off is that Caesans have a sight range of 19, compared to (say) a Jackal armoured trooper whose sight range is 16. That means a Jackal trooper has to move three tiles before s/he can see an alien, in which time that alien can test for a reaction shot 3 times.

EDIT: Which is why Hunter Scout cars rock. Their sight range is 20, so they can spot an alien before it can take a test, and then the rest of the squad can obliterate it.

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Unfortunately, we can't really test squaddie reactions because most aliens run away rather than run towards or shoot back (unless someone wants to replace the contents of UFOs with Reapers?).
I agree with the AI programmer on this too. The aliens are outnumbered and outgunned most of the time, so fighting a delaying action is the best they can hope for. I'm rather anxious to see how the team planning module will change their behavior.
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tbh I think the LOS range of troops during daylight hours should be functionally infinite with current map sizes. Having helmets should reduce the vision cone, sure, but 20 meters effective sight range? That's some serious myopia right there.
The designers did that on purpose to maintain some suspense when exploring the map. The weapon ranges are severely compressed too, same reason.
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StellarRat: Logically, the team planning part would have the aliens regroup back at the UFO at the earliest opportunity. The problem with that of course is if the aliens do that, the map becomes one Big Empty which would rapidly become boring. For the game to be fun, the aliens have to be adequately spread out so that searching the map isn't a chore and so they must illogically hold their ground. The AI sort-of has to work in reverse. Rather than disparate elements retreating back to the UFO, the elements closest to the UFO need to go out and meet the elements furthest from the UFO, then retreat back to the ship as their numbers get whittled down. But if they do that every time then it gets predictable and boring and argh I don't think GJ can "win" this.

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StellarRat: Logically, the team planning part would have the aliens regroup back at the UFO at the earliest opportunity. The problem with that of course is if the aliens do that, the map becomes one Big Empty which would rapidly become boring. For the game to be fun, the aliens have to be adequately spread out so that searching the map isn't a chore and so they must illogically hold their ground. The AI sort-of has to work in reverse. Rather than disparate elements retreating back to the UFO, the elements closest to the UFO need to go out and meet the elements furthest from the UFO, then retreat back to the ship as their numbers get whittled down. But if they do that every time then it gets predictable and boring and argh I don't think GJ can "win" this.
Well, what would be really cool is if the UFO could take off eventually. That would change everything. As it stands their best option in my mind is to try to kill everyone in the recovery team buying them time to eventually get their ship repaired. That might involve picking them off one by one, or maybe planning an ambush, or maybe just using good tactics that cause as many casualties as possible. Like fighting from cover, flanking, etc... My guess is that GJ is working on the last option. It actually does the aliens no good to run away constantly because eventually they'll get trapped at a map corner. That was already happened in a couple of my missions. Better to hunker down in good cover and take as many enemy out as you can. Edited by StellarRat
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Well the cruiser crew does exactly that. Not even a single one stray alien anywhere on the map, everybody is cramped up within the UFO, right behind closed doors. And the second you come near the damn thing they pour out and turn your guys into a fine mist with plasma cannons before you can even see them. I hate that ufo...

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It's not that big, even though it's listed as Large. And I've never actualy seen it from inside thanks to that save/load bug in hotfix 1. Hopefully it's now fixed with hotfix 2.

Well their tactics is good, I have to admit. Why let someone waltz around the countryside where those evil xenonauts can pick them off, when you have perfectly defendable position where you can use your larger numbers and longer sight range over the enemy. It's just not fun to play that mission. Always running towards the ufo asap, because there's nothing else to do on the map and then try to survive barrage of reaction fire, until one (or two, my record is 4 in one turn) of your best guys inevitably gets vaporized.

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I find extra LOS really annoying in open maps. If there are long gaps between cover, one or two aliens can be lurking outside of my LOS giving squadsight to everyone on the map, and some of those potshots from screens away are pretty accurate. If I send people running around out of cover to try and spot the spotters they're vulnerable to reaction fire. I do think the alien sight ranges should be adjusted.

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The designers did that on purpose to maintain some suspense when exploring the map. The weapon ranges are severely compressed too, same reason.

Obviously. Still, not knowing what lies yonder can be achieved by other means than core game mechanics, especially unintuitive ones. Examples would be more winding map design, more set pieces breaking LOS (such as denser forests) and fires/smoke scattered across the map. Yes, X-com did work in the same way what with spotting/sniping being the go-to tactic for pretty much every situation, but I see no reason why a simulation in 2013 should adhere to 20 year old design decisions (functional remake or no). Should be easy to mod in at the very least.

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Obviously. Still, not knowing what lies yonder can be achieved by other means than core game mechanics, especially unintuitive ones. Examples would be more winding map design, more set pieces breaking LOS (such as denser forests) and fires/smoke scattered across the map. Yes, X-com did work in the same way what with spotting/sniping being the go-to tactic for pretty much every situation, but I see no reason why a simulation in 2013 should adhere to 20 year old design decisions (functional remake or no). Should be easy to mod in at the very least.
Well, they were trying to stick fairly close to the original. People are already complaining about too much cover on some maps. Do a "realistic" sighting system I think the maps would need to be MUCH bigger and that causes technical problems like huge files that would take days to download. You can't get around blacking out part of the map if one of game feature is map exploration. At least, I can't think of a good way to do it.
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